Classic Traveller Advanced
- Thread starter ACK!!
- Start date
RobertFisher
SOC-12
Very true.
You start putting any list of specifics together, however, and we can debate about them ad naseum no matter how much we agree on general principals.
If somebody actually did it--created a reorganized & unified CT--would it satisfy any of us? I think it could, but I think it is tricky. Plus, you have to exocise the errata curse of MT and T4.
RobertFisher
SOC-12
Very true.
You start putting any list of specifics together, however, and we can debate about them ad naseum no matter how much we agree on general principals.
If somebody actually did it--created a reorganized & unified CT--would it satisfy any of us? I think it could, but I think it is tricky. Plus, you have to exocise the errata curse of MT and T4.
Ok, what do we all really deep down want?Originally posted by RobertFisher:
Very true.
You start putting any list of specifics together, however, and we can debate about them ad naseum no matter how much we agree on general principals.
If somebody actually did it--created a reorganized & unified CT--would it satisfy any of us? I think it could, but I think it is tricky. Plus, you have to exocise the errata curse of MT and T4.
A good solid Traveller system built by Marc Miller with D6 mechanics that works out of the box without having to wait forever for errata.
We want a system that is going to be supported for the long term by a company that cares about the system.
Imperium games did not seem to care about the quality and GDW did not really care about the MT system because no one in house played it. I can add the Digest Group Task System later if I have to damnit.
Sure, I would prefer if the method was a CT Advanced or MT corrected format with a simplier T4 like personal combat style. Sure, I wish that canon could be brought forward from TNE and out to a new age that did not stomp on what MJD is doing. But so what?
In the end, I just want to be able to tell a newbie to go buy these core books and play Traveller. I cannot right now.
I am hitting this right now as we speak.
I say, "Go buy the core book reprints kid."
They say, "What about Alien races?"
I say, "Get the Alien Modules or the JTAS reprints."
They say, "What about progression? The way in the book is stale next to most RPG's."
I say, "Go look at Andy Slack's House Rules page for better experience rules."
They say, "The combat system is kind of old-school with armor as To-hit modifiers."
I say, "BITS has At Close Quarters. It comes highly recommended."
They say, "Wow, it would be cool if I had some sector, library and deckplan data."
I say, "Buy the Classic Supplements reprints."
The whole conversation should be for any other rpg two parts. Where do I get the rules and where do I get the campaign sourcebook.
Getting into Traveller just feels complicated right now. You could go off into a system totally unrelated to the old system we all loved -- T20 or GURPS Traveller but that does not feel like Traveller to me IMHO and all that.
Ok, what do we all really deep down want?Originally posted by RobertFisher:
Very true.
You start putting any list of specifics together, however, and we can debate about them ad naseum no matter how much we agree on general principals.
If somebody actually did it--created a reorganized & unified CT--would it satisfy any of us? I think it could, but I think it is tricky. Plus, you have to exocise the errata curse of MT and T4.
A good solid Traveller system built by Marc Miller with D6 mechanics that works out of the box without having to wait forever for errata.
We want a system that is going to be supported for the long term by a company that cares about the system.
Imperium games did not seem to care about the quality and GDW did not really care about the MT system because no one in house played it. I can add the Digest Group Task System later if I have to damnit.
Sure, I would prefer if the method was a CT Advanced or MT corrected format with a simplier T4 like personal combat style. Sure, I wish that canon could be brought forward from TNE and out to a new age that did not stomp on what MJD is doing. But so what?
In the end, I just want to be able to tell a newbie to go buy these core books and play Traveller. I cannot right now.
I am hitting this right now as we speak.
I say, "Go buy the core book reprints kid."
They say, "What about Alien races?"
I say, "Get the Alien Modules or the JTAS reprints."
They say, "What about progression? The way in the book is stale next to most RPG's."
I say, "Go look at Andy Slack's House Rules page for better experience rules."
They say, "The combat system is kind of old-school with armor as To-hit modifiers."
I say, "BITS has At Close Quarters. It comes highly recommended."
They say, "Wow, it would be cool if I had some sector, library and deckplan data."
I say, "Buy the Classic Supplements reprints."
The whole conversation should be for any other rpg two parts. Where do I get the rules and where do I get the campaign sourcebook.
Getting into Traveller just feels complicated right now. You could go off into a system totally unrelated to the old system we all loved -- T20 or GURPS Traveller but that does not feel like Traveller to me IMHO and all that.
FYI and FWIW, that's exactly why I bought T20. It seemed to me that nobody actually plays CT/MT/TNE, they play some huge conglomeration of rules and house rules and supplements and magazine articles. I'd have to work out what to get, where to get it, and then quite possibly start trawling eBay.
If I could have just bought a book that did the job, I wouldn't have dismissed the various "original style" rules after a few hours surveying the territory.
So, uh, how you gonna get over licensing and copyright?
FYI and FWIW, that's exactly why I bought T20. It seemed to me that nobody actually plays CT/MT/TNE, they play some huge conglomeration of rules and house rules and supplements and magazine articles. I'd have to work out what to get, where to get it, and then quite possibly start trawling eBay.
If I could have just bought a book that did the job, I wouldn't have dismissed the various "original style" rules after a few hours surveying the territory.
So, uh, how you gonna get over licensing and copyright?
I don't really. This is not the kind of job for someone not dedicated to the business 24/7.Originally posted by Morte:
FYI and FWIW, that's exactly why I bought T20. It seemed to me that nobody actually plays CT/MT/TNE, they play some huge conglomeration of rules and house rules and supplements and magazine articles. I'd have to work out what to get, where to get it, and then quite possibly start trawling eBay.
If I could have just bought a book that did the job, I wouldn't have dismissed the various "original style" rules after a few hours surveying the territory.
So, uh, how you gonna get over licensing and copyright?
It is far too late but I always wished that Hunter and the guys would have done a CT Advanced instead of T20.
I have fiddled with D20 and realized really quick that was not just the genre I enjoyed in Traveller but the system.
I got into Traveller in the MegaTraveller days and the Task System was a revelation to me.
Oh well... What ifs and such do not really help anyone do they?
Why T20 as opposed to GURPS?
All my Megatraveller stuff was destroyed in a Move, Player's and Ref's Guide and Library Data, and 101 Vehicles and Megatraveller Mags and Hard Times and gosh it makes me so mad.
I love Classic Traveller too. I see the failings in it and as I posted above MT as well, hated TNE and never played T4. Never liked GURPS and not a big fan of T20 so I am playing CT with my house rules -- My House Rules
Maybe I should not have even started this thread. It just makes me sad.
I don't really. This is not the kind of job for someone not dedicated to the business 24/7.Originally posted by Morte:
FYI and FWIW, that's exactly why I bought T20. It seemed to me that nobody actually plays CT/MT/TNE, they play some huge conglomeration of rules and house rules and supplements and magazine articles. I'd have to work out what to get, where to get it, and then quite possibly start trawling eBay.
If I could have just bought a book that did the job, I wouldn't have dismissed the various "original style" rules after a few hours surveying the territory.
So, uh, how you gonna get over licensing and copyright?
It is far too late but I always wished that Hunter and the guys would have done a CT Advanced instead of T20.
I have fiddled with D20 and realized really quick that was not just the genre I enjoyed in Traveller but the system.
I got into Traveller in the MegaTraveller days and the Task System was a revelation to me.
Oh well... What ifs and such do not really help anyone do they?
Why T20 as opposed to GURPS?
All my Megatraveller stuff was destroyed in a Move, Player's and Ref's Guide and Library Data, and 101 Vehicles and Megatraveller Mags and Hard Times and gosh it makes me so mad.
I love Classic Traveller too. I see the failings in it and as I posted above MT as well, hated TNE and never played T4. Never liked GURPS and not a big fan of T20 so I am playing CT with my house rules -- My House Rules
Maybe I should not have even started this thread. It just makes me sad.
Though I like the Traveller Book, it really is a missed opportunity that's been followed to varying degrees by most other versions of Traveller since. Instead of collating the advanced chargen and skills into the core game book it simply reprinted Bks1-3 along with some adventures and ref tips. Nor did it have any rules on generating anything but a human. It didn't need race specific chargen charts just the basic info on how to use the current charts and what mods on stat rolls, etc. . Or any of the extra equipment from books 4 on.
Casey
Though I like the Traveller Book, it really is a missed opportunity that's been followed to varying degrees by most other versions of Traveller since. Instead of collating the advanced chargen and skills into the core game book it simply reprinted Bks1-3 along with some adventures and ref tips. Nor did it have any rules on generating anything but a human. It didn't need race specific chargen charts just the basic info on how to use the current charts and what mods on stat rolls, etc. . Or any of the extra equipment from books 4 on.
Casey
While it is possible to run GT with just a flavor of Gurps Lite and the Gurps Traveller core book, IMO you really would need at least GURPS Space and the Basic Set / Character Compendium I to run it. And if my GURPS book collection is any indication, that's just the tip of the iceberg, at least for reference. If I want to run a point-based Traveller game I'll use BESM or...Risus. ^_^ Do like the books and Gurps Lite.
FWIW, to me T20 is not base d20 in space. Dragonstar is more along those lines. But that debate has already been brought up elsewhere.
In terms of actually playing the game, system isn't my first criteria. I have played in great games with IMO horrible systems. Personally I think both GT and T20 can make for a good game of Traveller.
Casey
While it is possible to run GT with just a flavor of Gurps Lite and the Gurps Traveller core book, IMO you really would need at least GURPS Space and the Basic Set / Character Compendium I to run it. And if my GURPS book collection is any indication, that's just the tip of the iceberg, at least for reference. If I want to run a point-based Traveller game I'll use BESM or...Risus. ^_^ Do like the books and Gurps Lite.
FWIW, to me T20 is not base d20 in space. Dragonstar is more along those lines. But that debate has already been brought up elsewhere.
In terms of actually playing the game, system isn't my first criteria. I have played in great games with IMO horrible systems. Personally I think both GT and T20 can make for a good game of Traveller.
Casey
I was pretty familiar with D20, as was one of my players.
Also, I perceive two eternal verities of GURPS:
1. You will always "need" twice as many books as you thought you did.
2. One of them will be out of print. </font>[/QUOTE]I have had the chance to sit and read the D20 rules before and it just does not feel Traveller to me.
Listen, I am not dissing on MJD and Hunter's work.
I am sure it is an excellent system but I enjoyed the D6 mechanics for tasks that I found in Megatraveller or CT + Digest Group rules.
Yes, the combat rules could be simplified for MT and better and more in depth for CT.
I just feel that there is more than traveller than the milleu.
The simplicity of role-play due to simple task mechanics married with the complexity of rules for creating everything from animals to starship to planets and systems and even sectors of space.
That is revolutionary stuff for an rpg.
Maybe the real choice is to wait and be patient and give T5 when it comes out the real college try it deserves.
Maybe this thread is misplaced as a cry of someone who knows from what he has seen and heard what people feel needs fixing from the old system and laments all the running around for different reprints and House Rules that are really needed to address shortcomings that are in the end not that large.
If all the rules were pulled into place and about four things "fixed" in the mechanics of the old system it could stand against any system out today.
Forget vehicle creation and some of the more advanced ideas I threw out for just a second.
Chargen -- quick gen rules and advanced chargen (background rules and more skills MT style) rules with Alien race integration.
Task System -- Digest Group
Combat rules -- AHL/Striker or simplified MT style system (T4 possibly?)
Experience -- Andy Slack house rule and be done with it.
Everything else just pulled into place.
What else do you need?
More art and more pieces of equipment in the basic books, and few more weapons just a modern re-treatment basically with a hardback book.
Make the style of the outside all LBB black with red stripes and a picture to capture the eye in the upper right corner where it use to be blank in the old style anyway. Basically like half the examples off the traveller5 fan site.
I was pretty familiar with D20, as was one of my players.
Also, I perceive two eternal verities of GURPS:
1. You will always "need" twice as many books as you thought you did.
2. One of them will be out of print. </font>[/QUOTE]I have had the chance to sit and read the D20 rules before and it just does not feel Traveller to me.
Listen, I am not dissing on MJD and Hunter's work.
I am sure it is an excellent system but I enjoyed the D6 mechanics for tasks that I found in Megatraveller or CT + Digest Group rules.
Yes, the combat rules could be simplified for MT and better and more in depth for CT.
I just feel that there is more than traveller than the milleu.
The simplicity of role-play due to simple task mechanics married with the complexity of rules for creating everything from animals to starship to planets and systems and even sectors of space.
That is revolutionary stuff for an rpg.
Maybe the real choice is to wait and be patient and give T5 when it comes out the real college try it deserves.
Maybe this thread is misplaced as a cry of someone who knows from what he has seen and heard what people feel needs fixing from the old system and laments all the running around for different reprints and House Rules that are really needed to address shortcomings that are in the end not that large.
If all the rules were pulled into place and about four things "fixed" in the mechanics of the old system it could stand against any system out today.
Forget vehicle creation and some of the more advanced ideas I threw out for just a second.
Chargen -- quick gen rules and advanced chargen (background rules and more skills MT style) rules with Alien race integration.
Task System -- Digest Group
Combat rules -- AHL/Striker or simplified MT style system (T4 possibly?)
Experience -- Andy Slack house rule and be done with it.
Everything else just pulled into place.
What else do you need?
More art and more pieces of equipment in the basic books, and few more weapons just a modern re-treatment basically with a hardback book.
Make the style of the outside all LBB black with red stripes and a picture to capture the eye in the upper right corner where it use to be blank in the old style anyway. Basically like half the examples off the traveller5 fan site.
Similar threads
