Classic Traveller Advanced

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by K. Webb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ACK:

All my Megatraveller stuff was destroyed in a Move, Player's and Ref's Guide and Library Data, and 101 Vehicles and Megatraveller Mags and Hard Times and gosh it makes me so mad.

Still interested in Megatraveller Ack? If you are still SERIOUSLY interested I happen to have two each of the following (will have to check downstairs to be sure): MT Encyclopedia, MT Referee's, MT Players, MT Rebellion sourcebook. Not interested in money, but interested in trading for something Traveller (CT, Gurps, T20, MT, T4, anything) if and only if you still wish to play MT. If not I will save for another someday. </font>

Ok, did not want into the gory details but all I have left from my previous role-playing collection is an old Vampire (yuck) my brother gave me. Literally every single bit of it was destroyed man. I lost all my AD&D and Traveller Digests, TNE stuff and well everything.

I got the reprints. That is it. That is my whole problem. Sure, I would love it but I am not even going to be arrogant enough to suggest to bum it from you.

Is there something you been eyeing from Traveller Trader or here that you have not had the free cash for?

I have access to one of the best gaming stores ever and this is someone who lived in Atlanta and saw all the glory of the WarRoom in Gwinnet.

Contact me on private message because yes I would love to run a MT game again.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by K. Webb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ACK:

All my Megatraveller stuff was destroyed in a Move, Player's and Ref's Guide and Library Data, and 101 Vehicles and Megatraveller Mags and Hard Times and gosh it makes me so mad.

Still interested in Megatraveller Ack? If you are still SERIOUSLY interested I happen to have two each of the following (will have to check downstairs to be sure): MT Encyclopedia, MT Referee's, MT Players, MT Rebellion sourcebook. Not interested in money, but interested in trading for something Traveller (CT, Gurps, T20, MT, T4, anything) if and only if you still wish to play MT. If not I will save for another someday. </font>

Ok, did not want into the gory details but all I have left from my previous role-playing collection is an old Vampire (yuck) my brother gave me. Literally every single bit of it was destroyed man. I lost all my AD&D and Traveller Digests, TNE stuff and well everything.

I got the reprints. That is it. That is my whole problem. Sure, I would love it but I am not even going to be arrogant enough to suggest to bum it from you.

Is there something you been eyeing from Traveller Trader or here that you have not had the free cash for?

I have access to one of the best gaming stores ever and this is someone who lived in Atlanta and saw all the glory of the WarRoom in Gwinnet.

Contact me on private message because yes I would love to run a MT game again.

 

[sturn386]

I went downstairs to the bookshelf and confirmed I still have extra copies of MT Referee's, MT Player's, MT Encyclopedia, MT Rebellion. Of course you will get the more-worn copies but all are in good shape. Only one copy of the Spinward Marches map that came in the boxed set so sorry you won't be getting that.

I have had the extra set for years and realized it was a waste so they are yours.

I will send you a private message. Currently I'm learning T20, have the THB, going to get the referee's screen, waiting for the new player's guide to come out.

Only thing I'm maybe interested in is published deck plans for a Far Trader (favorite), Free trader, Fat Trader, Seeker, and/or Scout, but don't fret it I can make them myself or find them in internet-land.

PS: When you said Traveller magazines for MT did you mean Challenge? I have one extra copy of one of those too, the one with the Aslan on the front.

I feel like Santa Claus

 

[sturn386]

I went downstairs to the bookshelf and confirmed I still have extra copies of MT Referee's, MT Player's, MT Encyclopedia, MT Rebellion. Of course you will get the more-worn copies but all are in good shape. Only one copy of the Spinward Marches map that came in the boxed set so sorry you won't be getting that.

I have had the extra set for years and realized it was a waste so they are yours.

I will send you a private message. Currently I'm learning T20, have the THB, going to get the referee's screen, waiting for the new player's guide to come out.

Only thing I'm maybe interested in is published deck plans for a Far Trader (favorite), Free trader, Fat Trader, Seeker, and/or Scout, but don't fret it I can make them myself or find them in internet-land.

PS: When you said Traveller magazines for MT did you mean Challenge? I have one extra copy of one of those too, the one with the Aslan on the front.

I feel like Santa Claus

 

[RobertFisher]

Originally posted by ACK:
In the end, I just want to be able to tell a newbie to go buy these core books and play Traveller. I cannot right now.

For me, the existence of the QuickLink books 1-3 solves this adequately.

Aliens: I'll point them to the Alien module reprints. (Or just make 'em up yourself.) I don't mind this not being in the "core" game. I'd like them to be there, but it doesn't keep me from introducing new players to the game.

Progression: I've always found Book 3 plus ad hoc rulings by the referee sufficient. And you don't really need something like Slack's experience rules to be written in the rules.

Combat: I think Book 1 combat is perfectly fine for an RPG. ACQ provides a good "advanced" combat system. Again, it doesn't bother me to not have the "advanced" system in the core rules.

"sector, library and deckplan data": It doesn't bother me having supplementary material in supplements.

Many of us had a whole lot of fun with original CT before anything but the first three books were out. (Or after that--because we didn't buy most of it.) Books 1-3 give you a decent base that you can build on yourself.

The downsides to me are: (1) I need CotI or the MT players book to have a decent selection of careers. (2) I'd like some more guidance for handling the "mini fire & movement" tactics that are most likely to be used in a Traveller firefight.

I also think the DGP (or BITS) task system is a really great thing to give new referees, but it is printed out easily enough.

This may be coming across as, "If you'd only see it my way, you wouldn't have a problem." I'm not trying to say that. I'm just offering my own point of view.

As for GT or T20: Traveller for me is the rules (and only as much of the setting as is assumed by those rules). I love GURPS, but I have no desire to play GURPS: 3rd Imperium. I'd rather just use GURPS Space to make a setting w/o the Traveller assumptions.

T20 actually looks like a pretty cool system. Its existence, however, doesn't keep me from wanting to play CT anymore than the existence of Star Frontiers does.

 

[RobertFisher]

Originally posted by ACK:
In the end, I just want to be able to tell a newbie to go buy these core books and play Traveller. I cannot right now.

For me, the existence of the QuickLink books 1-3 solves this adequately.

Aliens: I'll point them to the Alien module reprints. (Or just make 'em up yourself.) I don't mind this not being in the "core" game. I'd like them to be there, but it doesn't keep me from introducing new players to the game.

Progression: I've always found Book 3 plus ad hoc rulings by the referee sufficient. And you don't really need something like Slack's experience rules to be written in the rules.

Combat: I think Book 1 combat is perfectly fine for an RPG. ACQ provides a good "advanced" combat system. Again, it doesn't bother me to not have the "advanced" system in the core rules.

"sector, library and deckplan data": It doesn't bother me having supplementary material in supplements.

Many of us had a whole lot of fun with original CT before anything but the first three books were out. (Or after that--because we didn't buy most of it.) Books 1-3 give you a decent base that you can build on yourself.

The downsides to me are: (1) I need CotI or the MT players book to have a decent selection of careers. (2) I'd like some more guidance for handling the "mini fire & movement" tactics that are most likely to be used in a Traveller firefight.

I also think the DGP (or BITS) task system is a really great thing to give new referees, but it is printed out easily enough.

This may be coming across as, "If you'd only see it my way, you wouldn't have a problem." I'm not trying to say that. I'm just offering my own point of view.

As for GT or T20: Traveller for me is the rules (and only as much of the setting as is assumed by those rules). I love GURPS, but I have no desire to play GURPS: 3rd Imperium. I'd rather just use GURPS Space to make a setting w/o the Traveller assumptions.

T20 actually looks like a pretty cool system. Its existence, however, doesn't keep me from wanting to play CT anymore than the existence of Star Frontiers does.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by RobertFisher:
For me, the existence of the QuickLink books 1-3 solves this adequately.
....

"sector, library and deckplan data": It doesn't bother me having supplementary material in supplements.

....

This may be coming across as, "If you'd only see it my way, you wouldn't have a problem." I'm not trying to say that. I'm just offering my own point of view.

As for GT or T20: Traveller for me is the rules (and only as much of the setting as is assumed by those rules). I love GURPS, but I have no desire to play GURPS: 3rd Imperium. I'd rather just use GURPS Space to make a setting w/o the Traveller assumptions.
...

Its cool to disagree because we are all adults here.

However, your post got me thinking.

Ok, lets take a pure CT look at the list and go for an advanced view. Nothing pure MT or T4 or T5 allowed in the list just CT per the title of the forum and the initial posting.

Chargen:

All material in 0-8 about regular and advanced chargen in one place.
All material about Aliens as PCs in one place.
Scientists rules for higher Ed from challenger.
Citizens of the Imperium changes put in too.
Quick gen scheme from Andy Slack.

Task System:

Digest Group again nothing more nothing less.

Combat:

AHL/Striker/Snapshot rules consolidated.

Starships/Vehicles:

Book 2 and 5 rules merged
Striker vehicle stuff in there

Progression:

Clear simple experience rules not based on chance like maybe Andy Slack's House Rules.

World generation:

Everything from supplements about animals to other things in one central place.

Adventures:

One reprint of one of the old modules included -- pick a favorite.

Still include all the General stuff I said before:

1. LBB style black with the red stripes but with an ingrained picture near the top like the T5 binder mock-up on the traveller5 page. Best picture is in the milleu 200 section.

2. Lots of good art like Bryan Gibson but stay away from the overly cartoonish stuff. Comic book stylized pics like Bryan Gibson's stuff is great for interior pics but cartoony like the Sunday paper is not good.

3. Thumbnail pictures for major pieces of equipment and weapons. We all know what an air/respirator looks like but Battle Dress and a gauss rifle and a snub auto pistol, no.

4. Adventure seed ideas sprinkled throughout from different milleus.

5. Lots of equipment and armor and weapons and vehicles. More stuff!!

6. Updated tech descriptions in general. (Any rules for tech after a sufficient amount of time will look in retrospect dated unless you abandon the hard science part of Traveller.)

Sorry that is not a bad game even by modern standards people.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by RobertFisher:
For me, the existence of the QuickLink books 1-3 solves this adequately.
....

"sector, library and deckplan data": It doesn't bother me having supplementary material in supplements.

....

This may be coming across as, "If you'd only see it my way, you wouldn't have a problem." I'm not trying to say that. I'm just offering my own point of view.

As for GT or T20: Traveller for me is the rules (and only as much of the setting as is assumed by those rules). I love GURPS, but I have no desire to play GURPS: 3rd Imperium. I'd rather just use GURPS Space to make a setting w/o the Traveller assumptions.
...

Its cool to disagree because we are all adults here.

However, your post got me thinking.

Ok, lets take a pure CT look at the list and go for an advanced view. Nothing pure MT or T4 or T5 allowed in the list just CT per the title of the forum and the initial posting.

Chargen:

All material in 0-8 about regular and advanced chargen in one place.
All material about Aliens as PCs in one place.
Scientists rules for higher Ed from challenger.
Citizens of the Imperium changes put in too.
Quick gen scheme from Andy Slack.

Task System:

Digest Group again nothing more nothing less.

Combat:

AHL/Striker/Snapshot rules consolidated.

Starships/Vehicles:

Book 2 and 5 rules merged
Striker vehicle stuff in there

Progression:

Clear simple experience rules not based on chance like maybe Andy Slack's House Rules.

World generation:

Everything from supplements about animals to other things in one central place.

Adventures:

One reprint of one of the old modules included -- pick a favorite.

Still include all the General stuff I said before:

1. LBB style black with the red stripes but with an ingrained picture near the top like the T5 binder mock-up on the traveller5 page. Best picture is in the milleu 200 section.

2. Lots of good art like Bryan Gibson but stay away from the overly cartoonish stuff. Comic book stylized pics like Bryan Gibson's stuff is great for interior pics but cartoony like the Sunday paper is not good.

3. Thumbnail pictures for major pieces of equipment and weapons. We all know what an air/respirator looks like but Battle Dress and a gauss rifle and a snub auto pistol, no.

4. Adventure seed ideas sprinkled throughout from different milleus.

5. Lots of equipment and armor and weapons and vehicles. More stuff!!

6. Updated tech descriptions in general. (Any rules for tech after a sufficient amount of time will look in retrospect dated unless you abandon the hard science part of Traveller.)

Sorry that is not a bad game even by modern standards people.

 

[RobertFisher]

Originally posted by ACK:
Sorry that is not a bad game even by modern standards people.

Agreed. If you can keep the quality up better than MT & T4 did, you've got a great product.

Could it sell as well or better than T20? Could it sell as well or better than T20 with T20 already on the market?

 

[RobertFisher]

Originally posted by ACK:
Sorry that is not a bad game even by modern standards people.

Agreed. If you can keep the quality up better than MT & T4 did, you've got a great product.

Could it sell as well or better than T20? Could it sell as well or better than T20 with T20 already on the market?

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by RobertFisher:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ACK:
Sorry that is not a bad game even by modern standards people.

Agreed. If you can keep the quality up better than MT & T4 did, you've got a great product.

Could it sell as well or better than T20? Could it sell as well or better than T20 with T20 already on the market? </font>[/QUOTE]It all depends on how it is marketed.

It is a good question in the sense that QLI/Rpgrealms in their continued support of the CT system would be critical to the sucess of the product.

There are a lot of people that prefer the D20 system and I am not sure they are exactly the same gamers who continue to play CT with house rules applied liberally.

Already there are GURPS Traveller, T20 and Classic Traveller out there in the world. A CT Advanced could simply be seen as a tool for the Classic Traveller fan. I would not at all consider it a seperate genre that way. An extension of the reprints is the way I see it.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by RobertFisher:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ACK:
Sorry that is not a bad game even by modern standards people.

Agreed. If you can keep the quality up better than MT & T4 did, you've got a great product.

Could it sell as well or better than T20? Could it sell as well or better than T20 with T20 already on the market? </font>[/QUOTE]It all depends on how it is marketed.

It is a good question in the sense that QLI/Rpgrealms in their continued support of the CT system would be critical to the sucess of the product.

There are a lot of people that prefer the D20 system and I am not sure they are exactly the same gamers who continue to play CT with house rules applied liberally.

Already there are GURPS Traveller, T20 and Classic Traveller out there in the world. A CT Advanced could simply be seen as a tool for the Classic Traveller fan. I would not at all consider it a seperate genre that way. An extension of the reprints is the way I see it.

 

[AndyH]

Game Extinction Events: I can sympathize!

I liked the "put it all together" aspect of MT. What burned me (and far worse in the case of T4) was that more attention was paid to concocting new rules than to testing the rulesbooks. Instead of polishing an already-fine work, they introduced egregious errors and omissions.

I recently purchased T20, and at first skimming it looks quite good. In fact, I'd say it's about as good as classic Traveller.

One big difference is that it doesn't stand alone as a complete game but requires the "core rules" (D&D)from Wizards of the Coast.

Another big difference is that, even given my familiarity with both games, it took me a lot longer just to generate a character than it did way back when I was a neophyte with Book 1.

With or without D&D-based mechanics, Traveller simply is not "orcs and hobbits and wizards with guns." It is SF, not fantasy in drag.

I expect the latter vastly to outsell the former for a long time to come.

That said, not all SF fans are "gearheads," and the spreadsheet-grist we love is so much chaff to most roleplayers. The old punchline was, "One Traveller player to calculate the lightbulb's wattage adjusted for Tech Level ..."

The simple vector-movement system of Book 2 and Triplanetary imparts (in my experience) more SF "flavor" than all the details in High Guard.

My vote would be to clarify and refine the basic systems ( a la Snapshot and AHL), add more character types and skills (as in Supplement 4), and include extensive listings of equipment and vehicles with description appropriate to the needs of roleplaying.

I'd like to see, right in the basic set, less fantastic spacecraft. Other realistic spacefaring topics would also be neat.

GDW was primarily a wargames company, and its staff was focused on that perspective. Traveller often seemed more "military" than "adventurous" or "science-fictional." I'll bet the community today includes more world-builders and storytellers on a par with the Keith brothers at their best. A fresh take on the game would embrace the wider vistas of the SF genre.

Keep the basic set focused on roleplaying, easy to grasp, and inspiring to the imagination. Offer comprehensive supplements for serious gearheads, wargamers, and Imperial historians.

 

[AndyH]

Game Extinction Events: I can sympathize!

I liked the "put it all together" aspect of MT. What burned me (and far worse in the case of T4) was that more attention was paid to concocting new rules than to testing the rulesbooks. Instead of polishing an already-fine work, they introduced egregious errors and omissions.

I recently purchased T20, and at first skimming it looks quite good. In fact, I'd say it's about as good as classic Traveller.

One big difference is that it doesn't stand alone as a complete game but requires the "core rules" (D&D)from Wizards of the Coast.

Another big difference is that, even given my familiarity with both games, it took me a lot longer just to generate a character than it did way back when I was a neophyte with Book 1.

With or without D&D-based mechanics, Traveller simply is not "orcs and hobbits and wizards with guns." It is SF, not fantasy in drag.

I expect the latter vastly to outsell the former for a long time to come.

That said, not all SF fans are "gearheads," and the spreadsheet-grist we love is so much chaff to most roleplayers. The old punchline was, "One Traveller player to calculate the lightbulb's wattage adjusted for Tech Level ..."

The simple vector-movement system of Book 2 and Triplanetary imparts (in my experience) more SF "flavor" than all the details in High Guard.

My vote would be to clarify and refine the basic systems ( a la Snapshot and AHL), add more character types and skills (as in Supplement 4), and include extensive listings of equipment and vehicles with description appropriate to the needs of roleplaying.

I'd like to see, right in the basic set, less fantastic spacecraft. Other realistic spacefaring topics would also be neat.

GDW was primarily a wargames company, and its staff was focused on that perspective. Traveller often seemed more "military" than "adventurous" or "science-fictional." I'll bet the community today includes more world-builders and storytellers on a par with the Keith brothers at their best. A fresh take on the game would embrace the wider vistas of the SF genre.

Keep the basic set focused on roleplaying, easy to grasp, and inspiring to the imagination. Offer comprehensive supplements for serious gearheads, wargamers, and Imperial historians.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by AndyH:
Game Extinction Events: I can sympathize!

I liked the "put it all together" aspect of MT. What burned me (and far worse in the case of T4) was that more attention was paid to concocting new rules than to testing the rulesbooks. Instead of polishing an already-fine work, they introduced egregious errors and omissions.

I recently purchased T20, and at first skimming it looks quite good. In fact, I'd say it's about as good as classic Traveller.

....

My vote would be to clarify and refine the basic systems ( a la Snapshot and AHL), add more character types and skills (as in Supplement 4), and include extensive listings of equipment and vehicles with description appropriate to the needs of roleplaying.

I'd like to see, right in the basic set, less fantastic spacecraft. Other realistic spacefaring topics would also be neat.

GDW was primarily a wargames company, and its staff was focused on that perspective. Traveller often seemed more "military" than "adventurous" or "science-fictional." I'll bet the community today includes more world-builders and storytellers on a par with the Keith brothers at their best. A fresh take on the game would embrace the wider vistas of the SF genre.

Keep the basic set focused on roleplaying, easy to grasp, and inspiring to the imagination. Offer comprehensive supplements for serious gearheads, wargamers, and Imperial historians.

Wow, where do I start?

I liked MT rules a lot. It does not mean that they were perfect. I hated the lack of playtesting and errata that was needed. I just like essentially for the same reason that you seemed to like it. It put it all together.

I do not like D20 thank you Sam. I do not like them Sam I am. Ok, enough of the phasing into Dr Suess mode. I just never got into D20 mechanics and T20 from my cursory look at the rules still carries too much of that baggage. Trav for me was more than just the mileu. I like the D6 mechanics and Task System and well a lot of stuff.

I think we are in agreement about a product that really brought it all together. AHL/Striker/Digest Group Task system with all the advanced chargen brought together. That is good. That is to this day a damn good kick ass system from a game mechanics point of view.

Ok, here is where I go into something of a rant. I may have hated some of the nonsense White Wolf introduced with its systems and the prima donna acting class castaways it brought into the role-playing world however I liked the fact it was simple to play and introduced the idea of storytelling as opposed to the worn cliche of role-playing.

I think that a fixed MT or a CT advanced would be one of the best storytelling RPGs around. It gives the ref enough room to create whole pocket universes with at least a bit of consistency while at the same time being very accessible and easy to play.

As for the wargaming nod, keep in mind, that some extended rules for wargaming might actually help any product like this. The wargaming set might actually like a decent alternative to the munchkin wargames that have gained popularity recently.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by AndyH:
Game Extinction Events: I can sympathize!

I liked the "put it all together" aspect of MT. What burned me (and far worse in the case of T4) was that more attention was paid to concocting new rules than to testing the rulesbooks. Instead of polishing an already-fine work, they introduced egregious errors and omissions.

I recently purchased T20, and at first skimming it looks quite good. In fact, I'd say it's about as good as classic Traveller.

....

My vote would be to clarify and refine the basic systems ( a la Snapshot and AHL), add more character types and skills (as in Supplement 4), and include extensive listings of equipment and vehicles with description appropriate to the needs of roleplaying.

I'd like to see, right in the basic set, less fantastic spacecraft. Other realistic spacefaring topics would also be neat.

GDW was primarily a wargames company, and its staff was focused on that perspective. Traveller often seemed more "military" than "adventurous" or "science-fictional." I'll bet the community today includes more world-builders and storytellers on a par with the Keith brothers at their best. A fresh take on the game would embrace the wider vistas of the SF genre.

Keep the basic set focused on roleplaying, easy to grasp, and inspiring to the imagination. Offer comprehensive supplements for serious gearheads, wargamers, and Imperial historians.

Wow, where do I start?

I liked MT rules a lot. It does not mean that they were perfect. I hated the lack of playtesting and errata that was needed. I just like essentially for the same reason that you seemed to like it. It put it all together.

I do not like D20 thank you Sam. I do not like them Sam I am. Ok, enough of the phasing into Dr Suess mode. I just never got into D20 mechanics and T20 from my cursory look at the rules still carries too much of that baggage. Trav for me was more than just the mileu. I like the D6 mechanics and Task System and well a lot of stuff.

I think we are in agreement about a product that really brought it all together. AHL/Striker/Digest Group Task system with all the advanced chargen brought together. That is good. That is to this day a damn good kick ass system from a game mechanics point of view.

Ok, here is where I go into something of a rant. I may have hated some of the nonsense White Wolf introduced with its systems and the prima donna acting class castaways it brought into the role-playing world however I liked the fact it was simple to play and introduced the idea of storytelling as opposed to the worn cliche of role-playing.

I think that a fixed MT or a CT advanced would be one of the best storytelling RPGs around. It gives the ref enough room to create whole pocket universes with at least a bit of consistency while at the same time being very accessible and easy to play.

As for the wargaming nod, keep in mind, that some extended rules for wargaming might actually help any product like this. The wargaming set might actually like a decent alternative to the munchkin wargames that have gained popularity recently.

 

[robject]

Last night I rewrote the MT power plant table to conform to High Guard: tons and EPs. But probably someone has already done this kind of thing, right? Anyone know?

 

[robject]

Last night I rewrote the MT power plant table to conform to High Guard: tons and EPs. But probably someone has already done this kind of thing, right? Anyone know?

 

[aramis]

WWG's StoryTeller engine is a wonderful engine. I love the engine. I don't like the self-contradictory setting...

I've a set of CG rules for WOD Traveller....
http://home.gci.net/~aramis/mt/WODTRAV.html

 

[aramis]

WWG's StoryTeller engine is a wonderful engine. I love the engine. I don't like the self-contradictory setting...

I've a set of CG rules for WOD Traveller....
http://home.gci.net/~aramis/mt/WODTRAV.html