Classic Traveller getting stale?

[Timerover51]

Optionally, you can create your own Classic Traveller Universe, and ignore the Imperium completely. Just go to the Rimward of the Solomani area. At that point, your characters are traveling in areas that can be a wild and you wish to make them. Lost colonies, abandoned planets, strange alien ruins totally unconnected to the Ancients, and if you do wish to borrow a bit from the Supplement Books and Adventures, maybe some of Grandfather's great-grandchildren that he knows nothing about. The tools are there to create any universe that you wish.

 

[Condottiere]

At technological level fifteen, there is no magical stargate to zip you around the universe.

So ask your players what their expectations and wishes are, and see if that can be calibrated into your campaign.

 

[HanleyTucks]

This what the dice are for, combined with liberal theft from books and film, and a topping of cheese.

 

[mike wightman]

The tools are there to create any universe that you wish.

I completely agree.

 

[mike wightman]

At technological level fifteen, there is no magical stargate to zip you around the universe.

So ask your players what their expectations and wishes are, and see if that can be calibrated into your campaign.

There are if you want them to be for your setting. There are lots of blank spaces on the TL chart for a reason.

Stargates could be a separate tech tree that begins at TL9 say.

Stargate TL	TL9	TL11	TL13	TL15
range	6 parsecs	36 parsecs	216 parsecs	1,296 parsecs

Also, if you dig into T4 you will find that there is a magical jump portal network, it's not TL15 though

 

[aramis]

The tools are there to create any universe that you wish.

I completely agree.

Those tools are only of utility for a subset of universes, but that's a fairly wide bunch...

the core tropes of the rules:

• slugthrowers held by people remain dominant infantry weapons in battlefields
• Communications travel no faster than ships (and hence people) do.
• spacecraft remain expensive, but within business-plan levels of expense (similar to commercial fishing vessels today)
• the setting area is long inhabited.
• People still do the work
• Space Combat is slow and brutal.
• PC's have a history

The rules breakdown a bit when those aren't retained - not that that stops people from pushing outside them.

And which are more encoded varies by edition...

But, at the end of the day, the original intent was a Genre ruleset, not a specific setting ruleset, and within that genre, there is still a HUGE amount of room.

And I agree, rolling up one's own setting - either a frontier on a vague pastiche of the OTU, or a whole new place - and going is a great bit of fun. Every Traveller Ref should try it at least twice.

Oh, and if your group wants to be in the OTU, but you want them in uncharted turf? first misjump, they hit a different J-space plane in the galaxy. Sure, they can do 10 years N-space to get back to the imperium... or they can experience the uncharted and largely uninhabited parallel, one created by one of Yaskodray's kids as a way of surviving the purge.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Nowhere in the Spinward Marches (which was billed as the ‘frontier’) had anything remotely like a ‘wild west’ vibe to it.

It wasn't the "unsettled west" of never before explored territory, no.
But what the Spinward Marches had (in spades!) was ... BACKWATER.

There are so many places in the Spinward Marches that can be classified as backwater/unimportant/struggling worlds and systems. Even after 1000 years of habitation, the sector isn't "fully built out yet" and there is still some "frontier spirit" in places.

Five Sisters, Vilis, District 268, Lanth and Aramis subsectors spring to mind immediately as "mostly backwater" territories in the sector.
Even the Regina subsector is "half backwater" (and half not).

Then you've got the Darrians and Sword Worlds right next to each other with their own problems and infighting.



So in terms of Terra Incognita (Stella Incognita?) the Spinward Marches "fails" at being anything like fresh completely unexplored wild territory ... because that's one sector over to spinward in the Foreven Sector. But what the Spinward Marches has plenty of is UNFINISHED territory, in which the story of the buildup of civilization is not yet complete ... which is where your Traveller PCs come into the story.

 

[Murph]

In some ways I think Firefly/Serenity got it right, Core worlds that are rich, decadent, and the frontier worlds which are poor, vigorous, and exciting.

 

[mike wightman]

The Spinward Marches having been settled for a thousand years ruined it as a 'wild west frontier' for me, add the sudden inflation of the IN from a few Kinunirs to multiple squadrons of Tigress, Atlantic etc and enough Gazelles to put a few in every system.

Imagine rolling the clock back.

Stick Regina in the middle of a subsector but close to its eastern edge.

Then put all of these 21 worlds in the same subsector, either randomly of with deliberation. There is still room for a few more worlds of your own:

The hub of new development in the Spinward Marches is the Regina subsector. Located at the very edge of the Imperium, it serves as a contact point with the Vargr to coreward and the Zhodani to spinward; the result is considerable trade activity through the starports of the region.

The lmperium has been suppressing political dissent in order to keep peace in the Regina subsector.

A reward has been offered by the subsector government for the location of a senator who has been missing since 1102.

A recent uprising at Feri has cut the Imperial communication jump route from Regina to Efate.

The government of Roup has made a subsector-wide call for surplus starships to supplement its local forces. There has been no opposition from the subsector government.

The Forboldn Project is the primary colonization project within the Regina subsector. Originally conceived in 987 to utilize the resources of Forboldn, the project began its execution phase in 1089, shortly after the Fourth Frontier War. Large numbers of colonists were recruited and shipped in cold sleep from the Imperial core, with arrival times set from 1110 to 1120. Simultaneously, preparations on Forboldn began, with detailed planetary surveys to pinpoint resources and initial building projects to prepare industry and quarters for the arrival of colonists.

Interdicted worlds are interdicted because the lmperium is trying to conceal its mistakes in social and political planning.

The lmperium has long maintained (since 556) a research station in the Retinae system for the purposes of communications research. Accessed from Frenzie via Thanber, the station has frequently figured in Zhodani diplomatic protests. Its long-standing presence at Retinae and the steadfastness of the Emperor has served to maintain its continued operation.

Asmodeus is recovering from a nuclear war which ended in 1005

World 728-907, recently surveyed, is a large inhabitable world with no evidence of higher animal life although extensive forestation and insect presence have been noted. The Ministry of Colonisation has designated the world for seeding within the next century, with a view to colonisation upon availability of personnel and funds.

Collace is the site of one of several lmperial scout bases in the district. Application has been made for membership in the Imperium, which is pending.

Tureded, a small agricultural world, has recently become of increasing importance as a trade and shipping center because it lies at a junction for jump-I travel from rimward to the Regina, Jewell, and Rhylanor subsectors. It is expectedthat Tureded will be upgraded to a class B starport within the next decade. The Scout Service is currently negotiating the establishment of a Scout base, with the apparent intention of an xboat link from Rhylanor to Dinomn and Regina

The Ling Standard Products shipyards at Lunion and Strouden are the major shipbuilding points within the entire Spinward Marches. The excellent workmanship, combined with level D technology, makes LSP products highly sought after.

The asteroid belt at Zaibon was once the largest deposit of copper on record, but the lode has dwindled to virtually nothing, and the facilities are deteriorating.

Wardn is a small world notable primarily for its intricate patterns carved in its desert plains. One hypothesis holds the runes are marks left by anerobic life, while another claims that they are artifact results of an ancient culture.

The government on Quiru is a military junta which is the result of a mercenary operation. Imperial force has not yet been brought to bear.

Egypt has been selected for a Ministry of Colonization training base.

Mithras is the site of an lmperial exile prison; convicted individuals are deported to the world where they begin life anew. Although environmental conditions are harsh, the opportunities on Mithras have made it a showcase of rehabilitation.

The Imperial Research Station at Duale has reportedly suffered extreme damage from an explosion of undetermined origin in 1102. A high degree of military security has been present in the system since that date. The nature of the research being undertaken is not known.

Nexine is an underpopulated water world currently being used by the Ministry of Conservation for reseeding efforts using biologically altered humans.

The desert world of Thisbe has undertaken a long-term project to divert large numbers of frozen water and gas asteroids from the Thisben belt to the planetary surface; the intention is an improved atmosphere and hydrographic percentage.

 

[kilemall]

I'm going to address this separately because it really is a separate subject that I've thought about quite a bit recently. I've arrived at a rather radical (if I do say so myself) conclusion from the perspective of a game referee:

This lack of a 'wild west' feeling is an inherent feature of Traveller's universe generation system as written. This system inevitably results in the game universe being too small.
Also, the same system almost inevitably results in the game universe being too big.

How is it too small?
Long answer: Every inhabited system is precisely located and statted. There may be worlds with a frontier type feeling (in Regina subsector alone there are several candidates) but they are also 'locked in' in this fashion. If you have an idea for a scenario set on a remote desert planet ruled by a religious dictatorship, you are out of luck unless a pre-existing world with those characteristics is in your PCs' path. You can have some wiggle room by placing additional worlds in a system, but this can quickly stretch the limits of plausibility and also does not work for many scenarios.
For example: The Chamax Plague/Horde scenario mentioned above can only be set on two neighbouring (on the interstellar scale) worlds of very specific characteristics.
If you want to use the scenario in a running campaign, you need to somehow maneuver your PCs towards those two worlds. Apart from the fact that this could very well take months of in-game time, it more importantly runs counter to what players typically love about Traveller: That their characters can freely travel through an open universe.
I have encountered the same problem when trying to adapt other classic (in both senses) Traveller adventures to running campaigns. For Nomads of the World Ocean, you can of course change the evil corporation, you can ditch the Vegan connection etc.; but you need a water world, relatively high tech, with at least a moderate population and a government type which would allow for corporate meddling.

Short answer: The universe (the OTU specifically, but the same applies to other universes created in CT) is too small in the sense that there is not enough conceptual space left open for specific scenario backgrounds. It is too fully described.


How is it too big?
Long answer: If you do want a scenario in which specific fixed points, regions or persons are relevant, those can only be reached by years of travel. For example, it is practically impossible to have your typical Jump-2 based PC ship crew to have scenarios involving both the Zhodani and the Solomani in the same campaign; it would take years (about seven by my estimate) to simply get from one frontier to the other.
This is a problem I am more willing to accept; I wouldn't want the other extreme of a JJ Abrams type universe which is theoretically galaxy-spanning, but where practically every point is within half an hour's travel from every other point. But it still could use some trimming without losing the OTU's vast feudal empire approach. I have experienced it irks players when they hear about distant parts of the Imperium and know full well they will never, ever go there.
You can see where the problem is by looking at two published examples of campaigns which actually were designed to take PCs across large swathes of the Imperium (and its surroundings even): DGP's Grand Tour and GDW's Arrival Vengeance.
In both cases, the solution was to impose on the players a strict itinerary their characters would follow, no matter what. No pretense of PC freedom of movement was maintained; the usual activities associated with such freedom (such as trading) where ignored.
This is likely the only feasible solution, but while it maintains the image of the vast OTU in the background, for practical purposes it reduces the game universe to a railroad track with fixed stops.

Short answer: The universe (more specifically the OTU in this case) is too big in the sense that it is impossible to experience most of its distinct parts even in a long-term campaign.


So in conclusion: There is too little undescribed space to flesh out in the immediate surroundings of the PCs. At the same time, the described space in its entirety is far too large too experience more than a tiny fraction of it in even a very long campaign.

The fix to this is not being locked into major worlds, but creating minor worlds that fit whatever special narrative/scenario you want/need.

 

[Tobias]

The fix to this is not being locked into major worlds, but creating minor worlds that fit whatever special narrative/scenario you want/need.

That is in fact the solution I would prefer to use as well. The problem is that "minor worlds" are not a feature of regular CT world generation. Every inhabited main world is on the map (even if many of these main worlds are in fact quite "minor", having low or no population.)

My fix for a new campaign would be something like this:
- 1 hex is not 1 parsec, but 10 (or maybe even 100) parsecs.
- Every hex contains many settled systems, and many more unsettled ones.
- The charted system (on the subsector map) is special in being a stable long-range jump point. You can jump between such systems at 10 (or as I said maybe 100) times the range of your regular jump drive. Jumps to, from and between minor systems in the hexes are possible, but conditions are shifting, and it may take several short-range jumps to reach a regular system in the same hex.

So you could basically insert any number of minor worlds into a single hex at will, while regular trade routes still running across the major systems in the usual fashion (I'd also have all major systems contain pop 6+).

 

[Condottiere]

You could have an isolated bubble, that allows you to travel easily to WestWorld, SamuraiWorld, and so on, which was one of the features of the Islands campaign.

Or if the issue is a question of time, pick a system or a star cluster, and heavily populate every planet and outpost within it, stuffed full of your favourite genres.

 

[kilemall]

You could have an isolated bubble, that allows you to travel easily to WestWorld, SamuraiWorld, and so on, which was one of the features of the Islands campaign.

Or if the issue is a question of time, pick a system or a star cluster, and heavily populate every planet and outpost within it, stuffed full of your favourite genres.

Balkanized worlds are your friends.

 

[Spinward Flow]

The problem is that "minor worlds" are not a feature of regular CT world generation.

Ever met expanded system generation before?
LBB6 actually details the rest of the Regina/Regina star system ... and the same can be done for other star systems too ...

It's a mistake to think that the mainworld in any given star system is the ONLY world within that star system.

 

[Tobias]

Ever met expanded system generation before?

Considering that I explicitly wrote...
You can have some wiggle room by placing additional worlds in a system, but this can quickly stretch the limits of plausibility and also does not work for many scenarios.
... it is reasonable to conclude that I have, yes.

But to reiterate: I have also already mentioned the problems with that. Additional terrestrial/habitable worlds in a single star system are an extremely remote possibility, and having such a thing occur regularly is plain implausible.
In addition, many scenarios benefit from or simply require the relative isolation of a single star system. If Horde, to come back to that example, was set on a secondary world of a populated system, the scenario would simply involve radioing the local squadron for help, an SDB would arrive to blast the Chamax into pieces, and that would be that.

 

[Grav_Moped]

The Spinward Marches having been settled for a thousand years ruined it as a 'wild west frontier' for me, add the sudden inflation of the IN from a few Kinunirs to multiple squadrons of Tigress, Atlantic etc and enough Gazelles to put a few in every system.

Imagine rolling the clock back.

Stick Regina in the middle of a subsector but close to its eastern edge.

Then put all of these 21 worlds in the same subsector, either randomly of with deliberation. There is still room for a few more worlds of your own:

The thing is (and I'm not really coming up with anything new here) that if the starship encounter tables from LBB2 (especially 1st edition if I remember right) accurately describe interstellar traffic, Traveller's universe is a frontier because there's hardly any traffic. At least the part of it described by the LBB2 worldgen process (which may not be applicable to non-frontier regions).

The largest merchant is 600Td, the largest ship (and it's a combatant, in this rules system) is 800Td. And you often don't encounter anything during a typical 1-day run to or from the 100D limit!

The intersection of the construction rules and the trade rules strongly suggest that there should be 2000Td J-1 ships and 1000Td J-2 ships (both being merchants), and 4-5000Td ships using Z Drives if you've got TL-15, but they don't appear on the table because it only contained the ships listed in LBB2.

 

[Tobias]

The thing is (and I'm not really coming up with anything new here) that if the starship encounter tables from LBB2 (especially 1st edition if I remember right) accurately describe interstellar traffic, Traveller's universe is a frontier because there's hardly any traffic. At least the part of it described by the LBB2 worldgen process (which may not be applicable to non-frontier regions).

The largest merchant is 600Td, the largest ship (and it's a combatant, in this rules system) is 800Td. And you often don't encounter anything during a typical 1-day run to or from the 100D limit!

The intersection of the construction rules and the trade rules strongly suggest that there should be 2000Td J-1 ships and 1000Td J-2 ships (both being merchants), and 4-5000Td ships using Z Drives if you've got TL-15, but they don't appear on the table because it only contained the ships listed in LBB2.

True, although that seems to be partly a function of only including ships with existing data in encounter tables. Sup7 tables included AHL and Kinunir class cruisers, Leviathan merchants in addition to the small ships described in the Supplement itself.

However:

The Spinward Marches having been settled for a thousand years ruined it as a 'wild west frontier' for me, add the sudden inflation of the IN from a few Kinunirs to multiple squadrons of Tigress, Atlantic etc and enough Gazelles to put a few in every system.

Imagine rolling the clock back.

Stick Regina in the middle of a subsector but close to its eastern edge.

Then put all of these 21 worlds in the same subsector, either randomly of with deliberation. There is still room for a few more worlds of your own:

I believe both of these problems can be solved with my approach. If there are hundreds of minor star systems in each hex, and consequently hundreds of thousands in the Marches, you have a reasonable explanation for a.) many of them being unexplored or at least unsettled even after such a long time and b.) starships being much more thinly spread (by logic, in canon every system of moderate or high population should be teeming with them.)

 

[aramis]

The intersection of the construction rules and the trade rules strongly suggest that there should be 2000Td J-1 ships and 1000Td J-2 ships (both being merchants), and 4-5000Td ships using Z Drives if you've got TL-15, but they don't appear on the table because it only contained the ships listed in LBB2.

By the strictest letter of the Bk2 trade rules, you can't fill a 1000Td ship reliably.
You can barely run a 600 Td on a profit if subsidized. And that only if you take every available cargo plus your one load of speculative.

But yeah, the rules mechanics of CT point to low traffic densities. Only with GT was the traffic density suddenly at the stratospheric levels.

 

[Spinward Flow]

By the strictest letter of the Bk2 trade rules, you can't fill a 1000Td ship reliably.
You can barely run a 600 Td on a profit if subsidized. And that only if you take every available cargo plus your one load of speculative.

That's one of the most basic challenges of trying to design an "always profitable" starship using LBB2 trade rules and gaming out how much revenue the ship needs in order to break even. There is indeed a tipping point beyond which you can't reliably "get more" to fill your manifests with, meaning that extra capacity either winds up getting wasted every jump ... OR ... some of your capacity is dedicated to transporting through 2x jumps instead of just 1x jump for your next immediate destination.

So it can be done ... but there's more bookkeeping involved and it gets "spreadsheet complicated" in a hurry!

 

[aramis]

That's one of the most basic challenges of trying to design an "always profitable" starship using LBB2 trade rules and gaming out how much revenue the ship needs in order to break even. There is indeed a tipping point beyond which you can't reliably "get more" to fill your manifests with, meaning that extra capacity either winds up getting wasted every jump ... OR ... some of your capacity is dedicated to transporting through 2x jumps instead of just 1x jump for your next immediate destination.

So it can be done ... but there's more bookkeeping involved and it gets "spreadsheet complicated" in a hurry!

by the strictest interpretation, there's only one spec cargo per week, and only one roll for cargo. It's very limiting.
If one adds the bk 7 skills, Bk2 trade is much more profitable.
If one allows each crewmember, rather than each ship, to search, it's the 1000 Td ships that get to fill, instead of the 400 tonners ...
If one allows both, it goes even more profitable.

The less literal one takes the rules, and the less rule and more guideline one takes the rules, the less predictable, and the larger the ship that can fill at major worlds, and the more the difference between a small world and a big one...

How one approaches the rules strongly affects how the setting described in mechanics feels.

I always do my analysis by a fairly narrow "this is what the rules describe" approach. Any other approach is too many variables to be a consistent result.

CT has a huge problem in doing that, tho'... It has 2 variation on bk2, 2 on bk5, and 4 possible hybrids of using both; it has 6 personal combat systems (Bk1 77, Bk1-81, Snapshot, Striker, AHL, and the very minor differences between 81 and TTB/ST...
It has the duality of basic and advanced char gen, but only for a handful of careers. In theory, the Bks 4-7 versions aren't that likely to be much better, but the reality is that most will push their luck a bit harder in advanced, and the different rate of acquisition vs risk is muddled by brownie points, so Bk 4-6 characters are severely broader skilled, and Bk7 slightly more skilled. Aslan are under skilled.

There's no truly coherent view of CT from the CT era sources... the first truly coherent version is MegaTraveller, and that fixates the Big Ship universe, striker based combat and craft design, and Bk7 trade rules. I've never managed in solo play to get a MT designed freighter to turn a profit using MT rules. I was able to do it with Bk5-81 + Bk7, and with Bk2-81 without Bk5, and with T20. TNE I never tried it solo, and players needed patrons to simply keep flying.

It's because CT is a genre-engine, and designed with a mix-n-match toolkit mentality. The OTU was the afterthought that took on a life of its own...

One can easily do a total shakeup and be still running "rules as written" because of the modularity.