Colt Dragoon

[epicenter00]

My impression of why nobles carry revolvers in the Traveller universe is history and age. The further you get away from a given date in the past, events around it sort of fall together. Widely divergent events and people who could have never met become contemporaries. For instance, to most of us living today, the ancient world is sort of jumbled: Pharaoh Ramses II and Socrates lived during some "Ancient Age." Galileo Galilei and Leonardo DaVinci lived together during the "Renaissance" and so on. One day, Kaiser Wilhelm and Ronald Reagan will be contemporaries because they both lived during the 20th century.

Similarly, to people in the Traveller future, the revolver is an "ancient weapon." Due to the advance of history, both the sword and brass-cased bullet shooting revolver have become contemporaries (nobody cares about black powder revolvers by then except gun historians). The revolver has a few advantages it's contemporary "ancient weapons" though:

* It's old. 54th century autoloaders are no doubt superior in every way so somewhere in people's minds, it's no longer truly dangerous, having become like dress swords that many militaries today wear. You never know if that military guy might wear a real sword instead and he could still kill most civilians armed with cameras and armored with t-shirts pretty quickly, but since swords are so ancient we don't think of them as weapons anymore.
* It's more useful and less finicky than single shot black powder pistols.
* It's certainly more useful than a sword as a self-defense weapon.
* It's ancient enough so it fulfills the idea of being a symbolic, ceremonial weapon that carries on the noble prerogative of being allowed to wear a weapon whereas commoners are not.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I should be painting the ceiling, but... I found this little Youtube snippet. Reminds me of shooting in the backwoods of Sacramento

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XAEv4q80Rg

 

[Kaeto]

Try shooting a Colt Walker,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxGHkbFm9zM&feature=related

 

[Blue Ghost]

Cool stuff. What's that pinging noise when he's shooting the weapon?

 

[far-trader]

Cool stuff. What's that pinging noise when he's shooting the weapon?

I think it must be the target trap.

 

[Kaeto]

The steel target being hit.

 

[sabredog]

Just to add a bit on the topic of "why revolver in the laser age?" not claiming that this is the total of considerations, just some left aside.

Prohibition to own military type weapons; a common restriction in Europe before wwii that, amongst other things, forced people to buy .25 ACP or .32ACP auto (while nowaday they are prohibited in Canada as pocket pistol). So no laser weaponry or even auto pistol at some place. Would also work if no Civilian ownership of semi auto with more than 5 rounds...etc.

Ease of use, pistol require minimum training to clear jam/stove pipe/double feed etc safely. DA Revolver's problem with duds, underloaded rounds, broken extractor, ejector, magazine lips or anything that interfered with slide operation either does not exist or is solved by another pull of the trigger. Civilian with casual (if any) training could handle pistol in unusual stress situation more easily.

Selandia

To be fair to the semi-auto's, though, revolvers also require more skill to use, both the DA and single action types. The single action for obvious reasons, but the long, heavy pull of a heavy revolver makes it more likely the operator will miss the target in a stress fire situation. DA semi-autos are the same way, but the whole reason for the double action is to make it harder to just snap off a shot quickly - its an extra measure of safety for stress situations.

Its why I trained the recruits at the agency to handle them that way until we switched everyone to Glocks - which was far more sensible for combat than something burdened with switches levers.

So in a way, the use of a revolver can also mark someone as a real marksman. Even if only because he has 6 shots instead of 15 ready to fire.

 

[sabredog]

Try shooting a Colt Walker,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxGHkbFm9zM&feature=related

Yessssss.....the overpressure created during firing caused the cylinders in the originals to explode with alarming regularity. That's how the Dragoon was born. Same horse pistol, just slightly less power and far more peace of mind for the trooper firing it.

 

[sabredog]

Hmm, sounds like something right out of Honor Harrington and her 45 auto.

LOL

But it does make an interesting story.

Dave Chase

As often as that Harrington series comes up around here I ought to check it out. But every time I pick up one of the books I'm repelled by all the hype, the length of the series, and the bad cover art, I mean, what the heck is up with the cover where she's holding a katana??? Good God, please tell me it's not because it can cut through a cruiser hull.

I'll stick to the old school works but it's nice to know the good old 1911 (I assume that's what she carries then?) is still the standard in the far future.

If it were me, though, I'd go for the .40SW. Love that round, and 16 rounds in my fully loaded G20, too! Plenty of love for everyone.

 

[Selandia]

@ Sabredog, slight vocabulary adjustment humbly suggested, revolver need more skill to be -replace: "use" by: "shot" for the reasons you describe that are associated with DA trigger pull. I'll use "use" in a much broader sense, and as you pointed out, even pro with training may gain from been Glocked, something that I did not raise initially.

Yes, token of marksmanship are one thing to add to the list. Also add special hand loaded ammo that would give erratic feed in auto may be used in revolver. Along those line, if you save your brass ( easiest on revolver) and have bullet mold, you can reload for revolver on any world with powder (even black powder), primer and lead. Pistol would be trickier.

Selandia

 

[ashiruni]

If you keep your casings (piece of cake with a revolver) you can reload those almost as easily with a press, a kettle, a lead form, and that same power. It's also easier to handle a cartridge than it is the paper arrangement, not the least because they're water-tight. In almost every respect, a cartridge is virtually identical in performance and ease of reloading, the problem will be in long-term duration. If you eventually run out of cartridges, you'll have an issue, but brass cartridges tend to be easier to transport that a flask/pouch of gunpowder and a bag of bullets or the paper cartridges.

 

[Epee]

Revolvers generally offer the following advantages versus a semi-auto pistol:
Very simple to understand - requires less training to use safely (only two controls the trigger and cylinder release)
Allows the immediate skipping of a dud round
Can fire different power rounds without special adjustment
Will shoot darn near anything that will fit the chamber
(the three above qualities would make a Traveller revolver attractive to someone who spends a lot of time on backwater planets where Imperial Standard ammo may not be particularly easy to find).
Because it has a fixed barrel and the sights are fixed to the barrel it is generally more accurate than a similar quality semi-auto
Since the grip size is not dependant on the size of the ammunition it allows those of smaller stature to fire more powerful rounds than a semi-auto would.
Because it has no reciprecating bolt/slide it is less subject to external binding such as can occur when holding close to cover or firing from within clothing.

The Walker Colt was the most powerful repeating handgun up until the .357 magnum came along; it had many drawbacks which nullified the advantage of power.
.44 cap&ball revolvers where rounghly equivilent to the .45ACP in terminal ballistics; .36 cap&ball was about like a .380ACP or Body Pistol.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Because it has a fixed barrel and the sights are fixed to the barrel it is generally more accurate than a similar quality semi-auto

I would disagree somewhat with this. It makes it more consistent, but not more accurate. Higher accuracy is achieved when an adjustable sight is properly aligned for the shooter. However, that adjustment needs to be maintained, as the sights may be "force adjusted" by snags on holsters, drops, slide motion, etc.

 

[Epee]

I don't mean that the sights are necessarily fixed in that they cannot be adjusted for point of impact but that the sights are attached to the part the bullet travels through. This is opposed to being attached to a part that recipricates around a barrel that, itself, moves when the weapon is fired and depends on lugs and or bushings to return to its initial alignment.

 

[RatPatrol]

Colt Walker .44

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/11/roy-hill/gun-review-uberti-colt-walker-reproduction/



and this info: http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/percussion-pistols-a-handgun-when-you-cant-buy-a-handgun/


. 44 Colt Walker 9 inch bbl
140 gr. round ball
60gr. of Hogdon 777
Avg. FPS 1395
Energy [ft lbs] 604

'60 Colt Army 7.5 inch bbl
140 gr. Round Ball
40gr. of Hogdon 777
avg. FPS 1214
Energy [ft lbs] 458


9mm 5 inch bbl
Federal Hydra-shock 124 gr
avg. FPS 1115
Energy 342

.357 6 inch bbl
125gr Fed. JHP
Avg FPS 1702
Energy 803

.45 Auto 4 inch bbl
230 gr Hydra Shock
Avg FPS 814
Energy 362

so the Walker and the '60 Army both are more powerful than a 9mm
the chart also lists .38 spl which is lower as well

 

[bromdenlong]

I always thought that Honor Harrington's .45 was ripped off from Cirocco Jones. I know the 1911 is a very popular weapon, and kickass females are not rare in scifi. There was just something about the way David Weber wrote about that just kept bringing Titan to mind. Either way, Rocky was a much cooler character, IMO.

IMTU, the revolver (standard and pocket) is also more versatile because it can more easily use standard and commonly available tranquilizer or taser rounds. The autopistol would have to be racked between shots. IMTU, it can also use snub rounds. Admittedly, in my game snub rounds are tamed down a bit.

 

[DaveChase]

That is one of the reasons, I think that revolvers like the Judge and the Governor would be popular in the future for a Traveller.

Even the Raging Judge Magnum which can shoot the 454 besides the 45 LC and .410 shot shell is a good one for those wanting more impact from a pistol

(The Judge shoots 45 LC and .410, the Governor shoots 45 LC, .410 and .45 auto)

Dave Chase

 

[Epee]

Just looking over the specs of CT pistol and revolver and comparing them to modern cartridges shows the Traveller rounds to be darn powerful; far more powerful than the 9x19mm as I assumed they mimiced. A 10 gram bullet at 450 m/s (average) is closer to a modern .41 Magnum than anything else.

 

[Zutroi]

I always thought that Honor Harrington's .45 was ripped off from Cirocco Jones. I know the 1911 is a very popular weapon, and kickass females are not rare in scifi. There was just something about the way David Weber wrote about that just kept bringing Titan to mind. Either way, Rocky was a much cooler character, IMO...

"The best way to kill your enemy is by surprise, from behind, and at a long distance" - Cirocco Jones' Law (although I may have slightly garbled the quote...)

 

[rancke]

"The best way to kill your enemy is by surprise, from behind, and at a long distance" - Cirocco Jones' Law (although I may have slightly garbled the quote...)

That depends entirely on the circumstances. If killing an enemy from behind will get you hunted by angry vigilantes or relentless lawmen, the best way to kill the enemy is in a formal duel, from the front, at the agreed-upon close distance.


Hans