Combing weapon skills
- Thread starter ddamant
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I use:
handgun
rifle
brawling
small melee
large melee
heavy weapon
handgun
rifle
brawling
small melee
large melee
heavy weapon
MegaTraveller?
Because in a RPG shooting at things with many different things is more fun than changing oil filters, running continuity checks, swapping out fuses, flushing hydraulic systems, and testing over-speed limiters?
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
I would / and usually do use:
Brawling: Hand to hand combat of some sort. Players can name a style if it makes them feel better. Like nobles and the like would know "Bartitsu" simply because it's kind of archaic and gentlemanly...
Archaic firearms: These are weapons that don't use a cartridge, usually black powder types. They are quite different to load and fire than "modern" firearms. Not that it's all that common a skill in terms of the game.
Pistol: A hand gun using cartridges whether revolver or magazine fed. Some might be single shot.
Long arm / rifle: Includes shotgun. A weapon held with both hands that is single shot or semi-automatic. If the weapon is automatic, is -1 to skill level if you don't have automatic rifle / SMG skill of 1 or >
Automatic rifle / submachinegun: These require different skills in burst control and aiming to be used effectively. Counts as long arm / rifle.
Blade: Dagger, knife, or any short hand held blade.
Sword: Any long (say over a foot) edged weapon.
Improvised weapon: This is a broad category of items like say, tools like a shovel or entrenching tool, a crowbar, and the like along with things like an axe, hatchet, or baseball bat-like club. This is useful as it allows a character to pick up whatever's at hand and use it as a weapon.
Most people don't readily see weapons in ordinary things, nor are they skilled in using them. That's what this skill does for a character.
Energy weapon: The plasma and fusion guns. Laser rifle and pistol count as hand gun / rifle.
Anything that sets up and requires a crew, or is specialized in nature that somebody wants to have a skill in is on an "as required" basis.
I also take tech level into account in many cases. If for example a character is used to say TL 7 weapons and technology, then handing that character a TL 14 weapon could result in a -1 or even 2 to skill level not to go below 0.
Example: The character is used to using a bolt action internal magazine fed rifle with "iron" sights. He is handed say, an Advanced Combat Rifle of some sort with a high tech sight, and other electronic features. He might have trouble just getting the thing of "safe" or reloading the magazine.
By the same token, someone used to an ACR is not going to get the finer points of using a breechloading single shot black powder rifle with paper cartridges. I know that can be a problem even for many friends when I show up with black powder weapons at the range and they are trying to figure them out. They catch on after a bit, but it takes some actual different knowledge to use them, like what to do with a misfire or how fouling can effect the fire and accuracy.
Using a sword of any sort is pretty much the same as is using a knife or dagger. Using something you just find laying about is a bit different.
The energy weapons require special handling and techniques, not to mention they're probably not exactly 100% radiation free so you really need to know what you're doing with one.
Brawling: Hand to hand combat of some sort. Players can name a style if it makes them feel better. Like nobles and the like would know "Bartitsu" simply because it's kind of archaic and gentlemanly...
Archaic firearms: These are weapons that don't use a cartridge, usually black powder types. They are quite different to load and fire than "modern" firearms. Not that it's all that common a skill in terms of the game.
Pistol: A hand gun using cartridges whether revolver or magazine fed. Some might be single shot.
Long arm / rifle: Includes shotgun. A weapon held with both hands that is single shot or semi-automatic. If the weapon is automatic, is -1 to skill level if you don't have automatic rifle / SMG skill of 1 or >
Automatic rifle / submachinegun: These require different skills in burst control and aiming to be used effectively. Counts as long arm / rifle.
Blade: Dagger, knife, or any short hand held blade.
Sword: Any long (say over a foot) edged weapon.
Improvised weapon: This is a broad category of items like say, tools like a shovel or entrenching tool, a crowbar, and the like along with things like an axe, hatchet, or baseball bat-like club. This is useful as it allows a character to pick up whatever's at hand and use it as a weapon.
Most people don't readily see weapons in ordinary things, nor are they skilled in using them. That's what this skill does for a character.
Energy weapon: The plasma and fusion guns. Laser rifle and pistol count as hand gun / rifle.
Anything that sets up and requires a crew, or is specialized in nature that somebody wants to have a skill in is on an "as required" basis.
I also take tech level into account in many cases. If for example a character is used to say TL 7 weapons and technology, then handing that character a TL 14 weapon could result in a -1 or even 2 to skill level not to go below 0.
Example: The character is used to using a bolt action internal magazine fed rifle with "iron" sights. He is handed say, an Advanced Combat Rifle of some sort with a high tech sight, and other electronic features. He might have trouble just getting the thing of "safe" or reloading the magazine.
By the same token, someone used to an ACR is not going to get the finer points of using a breechloading single shot black powder rifle with paper cartridges. I know that can be a problem even for many friends when I show up with black powder weapons at the range and they are trying to figure them out. They catch on after a bit, but it takes some actual different knowledge to use them, like what to do with a misfire or how fouling can effect the fire and accuracy.
Using a sword of any sort is pretty much the same as is using a knife or dagger. Using something you just find laying about is a bit different.
The energy weapons require special handling and techniques, not to mention they're probably not exactly 100% radiation free so you really need to know what you're doing with one.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I would go with Enoki, except maybe more discriminating between weaponry. Using an automatic rifle is somewhat different from handling a submachine gun, and lower Tech level blackpowder weapons are going to be totally unusable by someone skilled in energy weapons, and vice versa. If you handed a modern infantryman who knows only the M-16 (or whatever they are calling it now) a flintlock muzzleloader, and he is going to be totally at loss as to what to do. I would also make some distinction between polearms and battle axes based on my historical studies.
I would also make some distinction between mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, civil engineering, and computer engineering.
I would also make some distinction between mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, civil engineering, and computer engineering.
I just use Brawling, Melee and Gun, but I am a minimalist when it comes to skills. If a player wants to list "Cutlass - 3" that's great (and indicates their weapon of choice), but for all game purposes they have Melee - 3. Just like your example of Engineering, where there is no division between the different kinds of engineering (which are arguably more in need of division than knowing how to fight with a melee weapon, if one wanted to do that).
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
In this area I have added two skills to the list that aren't on it:
The first is Construction. You are skilled in building structures and such. At higher skill levels you'd be considered an architect or engineer and can do complex design as well.
This gives you the ability to build shelter or other structures in scenarios and situations where they are needed that aren't going to be unstable or fall apart in poor conditions. It differs from mechanical or electrical / electronic as it doesn't deal with ships which are quite different from building a house for example.
The second is Damage Control. This is a specialty in making hasty repairs to a ship and fighting damage like fire or loss of atmosphere. It also counts as medic 0 in that you know first aid sufficiently to give some minimal level of trained response to wounded / injured crew.
A player having this skill reduces the level of damage to equipment on the ship if they're present when it's damaged. That is, they mitigate some of the damage meaning it's easier to repair later. They can't repair it, just keep the damage from being worse.
They can use this skill generally with other vehicles as well at a -1 level. So, if your ATV is being shot up, they will still have some minimal effect on it not being totally wrecked so easily.
if you know and understand a particular topic, it's easy and natural, almost inevitable, that high skill differentiation will be enacted. if you don't know or understand a particular topic, it's easy and natural, almost inevitable, that low skill differentiation will be enacted.
"note that blade and dagger are not the same skill ...."
"electronics covers all manner of electrical devices ...."
"leader, administration, streetwise, liaison, and carousing are really all the same skill ...."
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Describing combat skills adds flavour, and can allow players to uniquely tag their character from the crowd.
Not sure where what your point is here. The issue is Traveller PCs have a very small amount of skills which are by definition meant to be broad in scope. Understanding all aspects of Sci-Fi Electronics but not knowing how to use a Dagger vs a Blade makes no sense from a game perspective.
If Travaller PCs had as many potential skills as a GURPS character I would agree with your premise.
One possible option is to treat weapons (or any Cascade skill) like Vehicle Skills (with a -1 to related skills in that field). So, if are you skilled in say Revolvers you may use other pistols at -1 to the base Revolver skill. I dare say the difference between a prop-aircraft and a helicopter is far greater than a revolver vs an automatic pistol.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
I see these as unique skills.
Leader allows you to rabble rouse, motivate others to do your will, that sort of thing. A good leader might be termed "Politician."
Administration is better called "bureaucrat." You know how to fill out official paperwork in a way that gets it right and moves it through the system. At higher levels, this skill would be "lawyer."
Liaison combines leader with bureaucrat in a way that allows the character to know who to talk to and how to grease the mechanisms of official government. A person with good liaison skills might be called a "Lobbyist."
Carousing is the unofficial ability to make contacts and friends that liaison does in an official way. A good carouser would be called a "salesman."
Streetwise is knowing how to find and operate within the criminal or non-governmental system. How to use the black market, how to get things done outside or around legal and government rules. A very streetwise person might be called "Made" or "Connected."
So, while they are similar in some respects, they really are different skills.
Or one's design goal is broad skill categories, comfortable with the non-differentiation. If the non-differentiation is bothersome there're a couple of lightweight options:
- Engineer - N is the specialty, all other fields of engineering are at 0 (much like all LBB1 characters have all weapon skills at 0)
- Engineer - N is the specialty, all other engineering fields are at N-1, N-2, etc., subject to Ref determination
Book four and five have some interesting rules for weapons.
Combat rifleman - expertise with rifles, carbines, assault rifle, gauss and ACR
Pistol- expertise with all pistols
Lasers - all lasers
High energy weapons- all plama weaponry
Auto weapons - machine guns and auto rifles
The rules in bk4 indicate the character must choose one of those gun combat skills. This would apparently mean that be 4 military training is superior to civilian training. Book 5 has similar gun combat rules. One could apply the same rules to book 1 army and marine characters. This kind of makes sense and sets military characters from book 1 apart; a civilian character would likely have more skills in other areas but could never be as proficient with a large variety of weapons vs a soldier. Thoughts?
Combat rifleman - expertise with rifles, carbines, assault rifle, gauss and ACR
Pistol- expertise with all pistols
Lasers - all lasers
High energy weapons- all plama weaponry
Auto weapons - machine guns and auto rifles
The rules in bk4 indicate the character must choose one of those gun combat skills. This would apparently mean that be 4 military training is superior to civilian training. Book 5 has similar gun combat rules. One could apply the same rules to book 1 army and marine characters. This kind of makes sense and sets military characters from book 1 apart; a civilian character would likely have more skills in other areas but could never be as proficient with a large variety of weapons vs a soldier. Thoughts?
marginaleye
SOC-12
One thing that's obviously missing from this list is an upper-class counterpart for Streetwise, which might be dubbed "Savoir Faire." This should include courtly etiquette, knowledge of all the unspoken rules and behaviors that aristocrats use to recognize one another (and to exclude jumped-up nouveau riche "bounders"), and some knowledge of the politics and history of the great noble houses.
The need for this skill is amply demonstrated in "Agent of the Imperium,"with the story of Ragla Niffield, the humble naval computer technician who suddenly becomes a baron and finds the process completely bewildering.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
I'd agree. Maybe call it "Manners of Court." Sort of knowing the secret knock or handshake sort of thing among nobles so they can tell one and other from the common riff raff to sniff out posers and such.
I see Carousing as fulfilling this role, at least to a point...
OTOJ, I see also Streetwise as a counerpart to Wilderness Survival, meaning Urban Survival too.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I've always assumed the liaison skill fits the bill for this since diplomats and nobles get it...
in my effort to cut out skill bloat I subsume streetwise, carousing and liaison into the same broad skill with Soc and final rank having a bearing on which version you write on your character sheet.
in my effort to cut out skill bloat I subsume streetwise, carousing and liaison into the same broad skill with Soc and final rank having a bearing on which version you write on your character sheet.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Having been in the military and worked with people and weapons, I would not use that at all. If the person was in a combat unit, maybe, but the much larger number of military personnel are not in combat units, and may fire a weapon once a year for familiarization, and that is it. As for pistols, I definitely would not use that. If you hand someone with only automatic pistol expertise a Single-action Army .45 Colt revolver, I am not sure if he or she could figure out how to reload it without some training, and I am not sure if under pressure they would think to thumb-cock the hammer back.
I understand the desire to reduce the number of skills or broaden the area covered, but that is up to the choice of the person running the game and their background. My background is going to be different from most of the forum, so my choices and preferences are going to be different.
I do like the idea of calling "Streetwise" "Urban Survival Skills".
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I would argue that a weapon skill represents your familiarity with firing that weapon in combat.
While I may give a penalty for an unfamiliar weapon, twenty minutes on youtube and a few dozen rounds on a range and familiarity will be sufficient, The most important aspect of all weapon skills is shooting/stabbing at stuff that shoots/stabs back.
I've seen enough movies to know how to fire and reload a single action revolver, despite only ever using a browning 9mm.
While I may give a penalty for an unfamiliar weapon, twenty minutes on youtube and a few dozen rounds on a range and familiarity will be sufficient, The most important aspect of all weapon skills is shooting/stabbing at stuff that shoots/stabs back.
I've seen enough movies to know how to fire and reload a single action revolver, despite only ever using a browning 9mm.
