Combing weapon skills

[Enoki]

I've always had a love/hate relationship with JOT. I like the idea, but I keep flip-flopping on how to use it in the game without making the skill too powerful or so weak that nobody wants it.

It should be a unique, interesting skill, but not one that is overpowered.

I prefer to allow it to give you a 0 skill level in almost anything, regardless of how many levels of it you have. For grey areas where you have a skill that sort of fits the bill, that skill now is the one you need at the JOT level or the level of the near equivalent skill, whichever is less.

For example, you have ship's boat 2 and JOT 1. You need to suddenly pilot the starship because the pilots ate the fish... You get pilot 1 since it's not that different from operating a small craft.

A 0 zero level in a skill doesn't really give you that much advantage, and if you have JOT at whatever that's fine with me. It isn't overpowering but it does mean you are reasonably good at trying to figure out how to do something you really haven't done much of before.

 

[Condottiere]

Jack of all trades should be a trait, not a skill.

 

[Supplement Four]

I totally missed the Handgun Skill in Book 5. Thanks for pointing that out. Funny how that skill allows use of Snub Pistols from Book 4 when that same book does not mention that weapon at all in the Skill List.

Book 4 does have a skill for Snub Pistols, BTW. A Snub is a low power revolver with little recoil designed for use in Zero G environments. It probably is a bit different to use than a standard Revolver or AutoPistol.

To find the skill for Snubs in Book 4, look at the Gun Combat entry, under Zero G Weapons. That skill describes expertise with Snub Pistols and Accelerator Rifles.

 

[Supplement Four]

Jack of all trades should be a trait, not a skill.

That's a very interesting idea. How do you think it would work?

 

[Supplement Four]

Jack of All Trades



I like the concept of the skill, and I like most of the official description of how the skill works. Basically, it's a free pass for the character to have a default Skill-0 in every skill, as long as the Ref approves.

I can dig that. It's not over powered, yet it can be a very coveted skill among players. Navy and Merchant characters get one shot at it. Scouts can get three shots at it. And those in the Other career can get one shot at it if they have EDU 8+.

Note how JOT seems to be something developed when spending a lot of time in space. And, Scouts are particularly known for the skill.

My issue with the default write-up on JOT is that there seems to be no difference in having JOT-1 or JOT-3. Both would give a character a default Skill-0 if the Ref agrees.

So...why improve JOT once you have it? JOT-2+ seem to confer no extra benefit.



JOT HOUSERULE

Here's a house rule that I picked up somewhere along the way. I'm pretty sure that I didn't create this rule. I think I read it in some third party Traveller supplement somewhere.

The rule works the same as the standard definition except use as a Skill-0 is not automatic. A check must be made.

The check is to roll 1D looking for JOT skill or less.



Let's take the example from the book. The character party is out in the wilderness, and one of them gets injured. There's no Medic, but one of the characters is an ex-Scout with JOT-2.

In order to use the Medic-0 default skill, the Scout must roll 1D, looking for a result of 1 or 2. If successful, the Scout can heal the character as if he were a medic. If not successful, the Scout's expertise in JOT doesn't apply to this particular situation (but a new roll can be made in future situations, even if similar).

I'm not 100% happy with this rule, but I do like it. And, I use it in my games (until I can find a better JOT rule to use).



ANOTHER INTERPRETATION

One interpretation of the JOT rule as written is to consider the JOT skill level to replace like skill levels. For example, let's say that a computer code can be read automatically by a character with Computer 2+. A character with JOT-2 or better could read that code, but if the skill were JOT-1, then the code could not be read.

This is probably what is meant in the default rule, although a strong argument could be made against this. Still, it's a neat idea.

My gripe with it is that CT has so few situations where a roll is not involved and a minimum skill level gains the character a benefit. Usually, skill level requirements like this lead to modifiers on tasks. If you have Medical 2+, then you get a +1 DM on your roll to revive a low berth passenger. This wouldn't fly with the JOT skill as written because JOT skill can never confer expertise higher than Skill-0.





MORE JOT IDEAS

Another JOT idea I've seen is to put the JOT skill level in a pool that can be used by the character who has the skill or to someone who the character speaks with and gives advice on a task.

Thus, JOT-2 would allow for a +2 modifier or a +1 modifier on two different checks. Once these points in the pool are used, they cannot be used again until the JOT pool fills up again. And, the JOT pool fills fresh at the beginning of each game session.

This is obviously a house rule that goes against what the official JOT description says, but it's an interest use of the skill.



Yet another method for using the JOT that I've seen says that the skill can be used in a game session a number of times equal to the skill level, otherwise, the default description for the skill is used.

Thus, if a character has JOT-1, then only once during that game session can JOT be called upon to sub as Skill-0 for a skill the character does not have.

 

[mike wightman]

Go back to its roots - CT 77 says this:

This skill is a general ability which may be applied to nearly any endeavour at the discretion of the referee

Apply that to the saving throw system of event resolution of CT - more details in the Traveller Adventure - and you can see the benefit of JoT-2 or even JoT-3.

Note there is no mention of level 0 in every skill.

In the CT saving throw system a skill level can be worth a DM anywhere from +1 to +4 per point in the skill, I would argue that JoT avoids unskilled penalties and then higher levels of JoT can be a positive DM, but at a lower value than you would grant a properly skilled individual.

Take the vac suit skill use description - you are doing something dangerous roll 10+ with a DM of +4 per vacc suit skill level. Someone with JoT-2 could get a DM of +2 on this roll, which is still worse than anyone with even basic real vacc suit skill.

I think the problems arose with JoT when Traveller started the shift to a task based skill system where each skill level is a bonus of +1.

 

[rhialto]

Jack of All Trades
JOT HOUSERULE

Here's a house rule that I picked up somewhere along the way. I'm pretty sure that I didn't create this rule. I think I read it in some third party Traveller supplement somewhere.

The rule works the same as the standard definition except use as a Skill-0 is not automatic. A check must be made.

The check is to roll 1D looking for JOT skill or less.

Let's take the example from the book. The character party is out in the wilderness, and one of them gets injured. There's no Medic, but one of the characters is an ex-Scout with JOT-2.

In order to use the Medic-0 default skill, the Scout must roll 1D, looking for a result of 1 or 2. If successful, the Scout can heal the character as if he were a medic. If not successful, the Scout's expertise in JOT doesn't apply to this particular situation (but a new roll can be made in future situations, even if similar).

I'm not 100% happy with this rule, but I do like it. And, I use it in my games (until I can find a better JOT rule to use).

Or roll 1/2D for skill rank or less, or double the JoT skill rank before rolling 1D or less; this keeps JoT ranks in line with other skills, where rank 3 is a professional (e.g., the aforementioned McGyver).

 

[rhialto]

Go back to its roots - CT 77 says this:

Apply that to the saving throw system of event resolution of CT - more details in the Traveller Adventure - and you can see the benefit of JoT-2 or even JoT-3.

Note there is no mention of level 0 in every skill.

In the CT saving throw system a skill level can be worth a DM anywhere from +1 to +4 per point in the skill, I would argue that JoT avoids unskilled penalties and then higher levels of JoT can be a positive DM, but at a lower value than you would grant a properly skilled individual.

Take the vac suit skill use description - you are doing something dangerous roll 10+ with a DM of +4 per vacc suit skill level. Someone with JoT-2 could get a DM of +2 on this roll, which is still worse than anyone with even basic real vacc suit skill.

I think the problems arose with JoT when Traveller started the shift to a task based skill system where each skill level is a bonus of +1.

This is probably the best approach I've seen yet: widely useful, but not overpowering. And yet another subtle difference between '77 and '81 (the latter of which I use, with house-rules from '77).

 

[whulorigan]

Jack of All Trades
My issue with the default write-up on JOT is that there seems to be no difference in having JOT-1 or JOT-3. Both would give a character a default Skill-0 if the Ref agrees.

So...why improve JOT once you have it? JOT-2+ seem to confer no extra benefit.

Perhaps the JOT skill grants 0-Level in all skills, but higher levels of the JOT skill grant a buffer against difficulty penalties when they arise, allowing the possessor of higher-JOT to still operate at their normal 0-Level skill presuming they have sufficient JOT-skill to offset the penalty.

(Maybe I am just restating part of what Mike Wightman said above in a slightly different manner - I am not sure).

 

[mike wightman]

That's pretty much the gist of it

Under CT pre-DGP a target number is made up by the referee, the value of a skill level as a DM made up by the referee, and hindrances made up by the referee. The JoT skill is effectively a skill 0 in every skill as stated in 81 revised, but the referee is still able to rule JoT skill can not be used. Also any additional levels of JoT skill will not be as useful to mitigate negative DMs, nor be worth as much as the correct skill.

 

[kilemall]

My JOAT go-to rule now is to drop my whole EDU thing and just say the JOAT skill level is equal to the number of times the character can try the roll to do the whatever action. After that, unskilled roll, cause the character has run out of Most Interesting Man In the Galaxy juice/experiences/problem-solving.

 

[flykiller]

Jack of all trades should be a trait, not a skill.

That's a very interesting idea. How do you think it would work?

if it gives skill level 0 in everything, then it's already a trait, not a skill.

actually, given high-tech ubiquity of knowledge and virtual training, joat might be fairly common among some humans, say, among travellers. after all, what else is there to do in jump but study and practice?

 

[Condottiere]

Some people have a knack.

I think that Striker once defaulted mortar skill to Jack of all Trades.

Maybe you have to narrowly restrict it to categories.

 

[mike wightman]

If you stick with CT dice throws to resolve actions JoT works as written.

As you move to DGP/MT/MgT task systems JoT needs reworking as it doesn't fit well.

Solution - since this is a CT thread - stick with the dice throw system of LBB1-3 expanded by note in A:1 Kinunir and The Traveller Adventure guide to dice throws.

 

[Supplement Four]

Solution - since this is a CT thread - stick with the dice throw system of LBB1-3 expanded by note in A:1 Kinunir and The Traveller Adventure guide to dice throws.

There are all sorts of dice throws used as examples in CT. Like the roll to throw blades: Throw 18+ to hit. +DEX DM, +Blade Skill, -Evasion.

 

[mike wightman]

The Traveller Adventure = page 28 THE USES OF DIE ROLLS (sorry for caps, that is how it cut'n'pastes )
for example:

Situation Throws:
In the absence of any other guidance, the referee may always resort to the situation throw. When an incident first occurs, throw two dice to determine its relative severity. A low roll means that it is easy, a high roll means comparative difficulty. The number achieved is now the situation number. The player characters involved, when they attempt to deal with the situation, must roll the situation number or higher on two dice. They are, of course, allowed DMs based on any appropriate skills. Tools, assistance, and equipment may also provide beneficial DMs; weather, haste, adverse environment, or other handicaps may impose negative DMs. It is even possible for a referee to make the situation number greater than 12, thus making success impossible unless the players can provide necessary skills or tools with DMs to get their throw also above 12.

If you want a harder target number roll an extra die or two...

 

[Supplement Four]

The Traveller Adventure = page 28 THE USES OF DIE ROLLS (sorry for caps, that is how it cut'n'pastes )
for example:

If you want a harder target number roll an extra die or two...

I am quite familiar with that passage. I'm just saying that there are all sorts of rolls in CT. Roll an attribute or less, for example, on 2D.

 

[mike wightman]

All of which are expanded upon in The Traveller Adventure.

JoT may be used to resolve non-combat situations where dice throws involve non-combat skills. It works well rules as written in CT, it doesn't work well and becomes broken as you move to task systems.

 

[Supplement Four]

All of which are expanded upon in The Traveller Adventure.

JoT may be used to resolve non-combat situations where dice throws involve non-combat skills. It works well rules as written in CT, it doesn't work well and becomes broken as you move to task systems.

How does JOT help you when a character is rolling 2D for STR or less to force open a stuck hatch?

 

[mike wightman]

It may help you improvise a lever, obviously

More seriously, the caveat is in the sentence:

may be applied to nearly any endeavour at the discretion of the referee