Computers and Starships

[FrancoisUldry]

Got a d*n stupid question, how comes vehicles have such complicated and detailed onboard computers when starships have only a model and some limited software.

Following the text, the vehicle system and the starship systems are mutually exclusive.

I'd like to know how I can have an Expert computer running on my starship ? The pricing in that case is less and you then have more choice.

And of course the volume requirement is less also.

It is an errata per se, but I think it requires clarifications. At least for me

*Clueless* Francois

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Fu,

The simple answer is that the Computer Design Sequence (CDS) was created to allow custom designs and the Spacecraft and Starship Design Sequence (SSDS) Ship's Computers is almost a direct import for Classic Traveller Book 5: High Guard.

I'm still working an Excel spreadsheet for the CDS and one of the rough spots concerns the SSDS Ship's Computers and Chapter 13's Standard Ship's Computer Table in THB 1st printing. Someday, I might be satisfied with my work to release the spreadsheet to the public. In the mean time this site Falkayn.com has a MS Excel 2000 written by Jeff Sandmeier that might help a bit.

Originally posted by Fu:
Got a d*n stupid question, how comes vehicles have such complicated and detailed onboard computers when starships have only a model and some limited software.

Following the text, the vehicle system and the starship systems are mutually exclusive.

I'd like to know how I can have an Expert computer running on my starship ? The pricing in that case is less and you then have more choice.

And of course the volume requirement is less also.

It is an errata per se, but I think it requires clarifications. At least for me

*Clueless* Francois

 

[FrancoisUldry]

So can we use the computer design sequence with starships or not ???

This is really weird. I can see my players saying, humm this computer seems to have a lot of extra power, let's plug it in instead of this old crap over there...

To do so would require us to know the CPU requirements for the space ships programs...

Francois

 

[far-trader]

I thought Tom Rux had worked out that the Starship Design computers were buildable using the Computer Design rules. Perhaps I misremember his work, do a search in the T20 area by his CotI number for the posts.

My understanding is they are the Type M (Master Computer) models of the appropriate model number with all the necessary hardware (and a pair of redundancy backups?). And don't forget the Starship Design computer core (Ship's Computer table) is the part to compare to the Computer Design sequence.

I wish there had been better (some) examples of all the design sections and a much better level of integration so one could actually scale things across the whole personal/vehicle/ship design, but then this begger isn't riding yet

Old saying reference in case you've never actually heard it. "If wishes were horses beggers would ride."

The CPU requirements (actually PP units) are listed on pg. 229-232 but there might have been some errata so check that. The computers themselves do have errata concerning PP available so look at that as well.

I also have a list of PP conversions of all the old CT programs I was working out around here somewhere. I'll post it here when I get a chance to find it, though it's not too hard to figure out for yourself if you want.

 

[FrancoisUldry]

I have just read some of his posts.

Really good info in there, will dig deeper.

BUT !

So using the model/1 numbers listed (28/11) you can determine that it is a Master/1 computer.

It then requires 1000 CPU pts.

A parallel design using these numbers, built at TL 9, (1 TL to mini 1 TL to cost) comes up as

cost 0.1, vl 607.5 (around .5 ton, 1400 vl per ton) and a whooping EP req of 40.5...

Which is the only way to jump at that TL.

What bugs me there is that the computer cores for starships are listed as having an EP of ZERO !

Reading between the lines tell us that actually, only skills need the second number of a computer model, IE, A jump program only uses PP capacity, while Gunnery-4 uses up 4 PP cap and 4 PP out of the max PP column.

So, if I build a ship around a model E/1 computer at TL 11 it will be, ok i have understood. IT IS NOT LOGICAL. A computer rated M/7 can actually control a jump-6 when an E-3 cannot. While the E-3 requires 3 times the amount of hardware the M/7 has.

Clearly something is broken there.

Can you clarify ?
(I know it's not new, I am trying to accept the current rules)

Francois

 

[FrancoisUldry]

Another thing, If I build a custom computer using the computer design rules.

How much will cost the avionics, sensor and commo modules ? Twice the rated model ?

Again it does not make a lot of sense as an M/7 is worse than an E/2, while being WAY more expensive...

We could have said, OK the difference is on the TL, but then again an E/1 is available at TL5...

and the E/3 at TL9. Why would anyone save 100kcr on the computer when it is so much more useful to spend those 500kcr that get you a better model while you are already spending 50 Mcr ???

And another one, if you have a big ship which can afford 10 tons of computers, why would you have to run an E/7 while a M/2, which is better cannot be used due to the size of the ship requiring a bigger "model".

Heeeelp, what is broken there ? Me or the design system ?
Francois

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Fu:
I have just read some of his posts.

Really good info in there, will dig deeper.

BUT !

So using the model/1 numbers listed (28/11) you can determine that it is a Master/1 computer.

Whoops, right, I said Expert type above, meant Master (edited)

Originally posted by Fu:
It then requires 1000 CPU pts.

A parallel design using these numbers, built at TL 9, (1 TL to mini 1 TL to cost) comes up as

cost 0.1, vl 607.5 (around .5 ton, 1400 vl per ton) and a whooping EP req of 40.5...

Which is the only way to jump at that TL.

What bugs me there is that the computer cores for starships are listed as having an EP of ZERO !

Yes but those are Vehicle EP's (which I use no caps when doing desgins ep's vs EP's to keep it clear in my head) which are a fraction of Starship EP's.

Originally posted by Fu:
Reading between the lines tell us that actually, only skills need the second number of a computer model, IE, A jump program only uses PP capacity, while Gunnery-4 uses up 4 PP cap and 4 PP out of the max PP column.

So, if I build a ship around a model E/1 computer at TL 11 it will be, ok i have understood. IT IS NOT LOGICAL. A computer rated M/7 can actually control a jump-6 when an E-3 cannot. While the E-3 requires 3 times the amount of hardware the M/7 has.

Clearly something is broken there.

Can you clarify ?
(I know it's not new, I am trying to accept the current rules)

Francois

Could be, I haven't looked at it for a while, frustration and hoping Hunter might have some insight to offer on some questions way back to those threads put me off it. I do think the Expert models are something to do with running the AI Logic programs but I'm not sure. I may have to look at all this again. I only got into it as an offshoot of my interest in the Starship design problems. Like Tom said the rules were backwards engineered (unless MWM actually had something like this driving the original rules, behind the curtain) to provide a very close modelling of the CT/HG computers.

 

[FrancoisUldry]

On top of that the table should be errata'd

If you install a Jump-1 program on a M/1 computer, the Max PP remaining after installation of the Jump-1 software is :

28-23 = 5

So it should be rated 5/11 not 28/11.

Which is kind of crap as 5 is not even enough to install the 11 software to be able to run it afterward

Doh !

Francois

 

[FrancoisUldry]

Even worse...

If you want to be able to target anything, you also need to install a weapon system software.

Which uses 1 PP.

If you want live gunners to operate weapons, you also need one of those per gunner.

Again 1 PP apiece.

Francois

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Fu:
Another thing, If I build a custom computer using the computer design rules.

How much will cost the avionics, sensor and commo modules ? Twice the rated model ?

Again it does not make a lot of sense as an M/7 is worse than an E/2, while being WAY more expensive...

We could have said, OK the difference is on the TL, but then again an E/1 is available at TL5...

and the E/3 at TL9. Why would anyone save 100kcr on the computer when it is so much more useful to spend those 500kcr that get you a better model while you are already spending 50 Mcr ???

And another one, if you have a big ship which can afford 10 tons of computers, why would you have to run an E/7 while a M/2, which is better cannot be used due to the size of the ship requiring a bigger "model".

Heeeelp, what is broken there ? Me or the design system ?
Francois

Yes/No/Uncertain - roll 1d3 per question and apply the answer generated.

All good questions to which I could only offer opinions not answers, and in all likelyhood very MTU opinions at that. One idea just forming in my mind is to ignore the Computer design sequence entirely for Small Craft and Starships and only use it for Vehicles. Sticking with the simple, limited choices for Starships.

Sorry I can't offer more help right now. I'd have to reread the whole thing again and dig up my notes and then ponder it. This is stirring old feelings of wondering how a lot of this got through playtesting and my suspicion that there was a lot more play than testing It really bugs me and I'm not sure I want the aggravation again right now with other issues pending resolution. Yeah the bloom is definately off sad to say.

 

[FrancoisUldry]

If you forget to install a laguage module, you cannot communicate with the computer.

So it means that you cannot instruct it where to jump and how to jump.

PP required : 5

Actually, a Model/1 computer once you have the language module software cannot get any other software installed.

Of course then you need the hardware... Which has already been spoken of in other posts.

My head hurts.

Or you need control panels, but how much control panels do you need the same amount as the CPU rating ? If you do not install any, the text clearly states that the computer acts on its own.

As any E/ computer IS intelligent (min. INT rating 4), it then act on its own.

You want to to Regina and then the computer goes somewhere else, toooooooo bad :/ but you cannot communicate with it anyway ???? Weird.

Francois

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Fu:
If you forget to install a laguage module, you cannot communicate with the computer.

"Keyboard? How quaint."

By which I mean of course that Scotty rules! Er, no, well yes but what I really mean is of course you mean except for the Basic (Simple OS) Logic Program and Keyboard/Manual Interface Command Program (both 0PP and no cost IMTU though not quite in the design sequence).

Unless I read this wrong. I think you refer to the higer tech verbal command computers.

Originally posted by Fu:
My head hurts.

Ah, then you ARE making progress I sympathize, really.

Originally posted by Fu:
Or you need control panels, but how much control panels do you need the same amount as the CPU rating ? If you do not install any, the text clearly states that the computer acts on its own.

As any E/ computer IS intelligent (min. INT rating 4), it then act on its own.

You want to to Regina and then the computer goes somewhere else, toooooooo bad :/ but you cannot communicate with it anyway ???? Weird.

Francois

Well, Intelligence as used here, at least IMTU, is not a Thinking Machine (i.e. AI, which in the design sequence is part of programming). It is more that the computer will do it's tasks with some degree of reason. So you want to go to Regina but the course you try to put into the computer will crash somewhere, if the computer is "smart" enough it'll catch your error and say so, or if it's really "smart" it'll even suggest a safe course. It will not however prevent you from bypassing safety parameters if you have (or hacked) the clearance level to do so.

 

[FrancoisUldry]

You actually missed my point.

The standard computers Model/1 to 9 does not take into account the panel requirements. At least they dont seem to.

So you got a "smart" computer but no way to tell it what you want to do...

No verbal sequence, no input devices.

End result, as it is smart, it does what it wants.

Not what *YOU* want

Francois

 

[far-trader]

Ah, there was a similar point noted, by Tom iirc and I'm pretty sure Hunter replied that it would be in the errata. Might have been forgotten along with a couple other points he meant to fix.

Just as an aside I do hope Hunter et al are taking all this in stride. It can't be easy to have your work picked apart. I know it's not easy to explain something that is obvious to you because you created it to someone who is not privy to all the steps and backsteps between idea and system. That is part of the reason I long ago asked for the playtest files to be opened, hoping for some insight into how to use the systems. Or barring that some good examples (as others have asked for) of all and sundry. One thing I don't understand is how all the writers are working around the questionable bits. Are they just winging it? Or are they privy to inside info, either from direct contact or being ex-playtesters? I mean if it turns out that the computer design needs a major overhaul to reflect how the designs were arrived at how is that going to affect designs built around it now based on incorrect assumptions and too little info? Of course I understand the need to publish or perish so I doubt that would stop the process. I guess it's time to dust off the "well there are several manufacturers all building them differently" line.

 

[FrancoisUldry]

And another point is that the TA 7 does not give us a complete example of a design sequence.

:/

*Open acrobat and checks* Sadly no, we only have the condensed form. On top of that most of the designs are too big

I am not complaining, it's useful but not to help us solve my problem of understanding.

As you know I started asking. Not pretending I know better.

Of course, after doing some tests, I admit I do not know and that it simply does not work the way it should in my eyes

Francois

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello far-trader, Fu, and everyone who is reading this thread,

First, a happy holiday wish to one and all.

Next, thanks far-trader for the kind words about me figuring out how to build the Spacecraft and Starship Design Sequence (SSDS) Ship's Computers (SC) Table (SCT) p. 263 with the Computer Design Sequence (CDS), pp. 223-233. The spreadsheet I'm trying to create can almost re-create the SSDS SCT and display the created system in a similar data format used by the Standard Designs (SD) Ship's Computer Data Block (SCDB) on p. 282. Two areas are giving me touble, they are EP and the Model column of the SD SCDB. I did make a suggestion about a possible, though not fully figured out, fix for EP. As for the Model as listed in the SD SCDB on p. 282 my attempts to get this to match are only partially successful. When I have either or both figured out I'll post my possible solution or solutions here.

Originally posted by far-trader:
I thought Tom Rux had worked out that the Starship Design computers were buildable using the Computer Design rules. Perhaps I misremember his work, do a search in the T20 area by his CotI number for the posts.

My understanding is they are the Type M (Master Computer) models of the appropriate model number with all the necessary hardware (and a pair of redundancy backups?). And don't forget the Starship Design computer core (Ship's Computer table) is the part to compare to the Computer Design sequence.

I wish there had been better (some) examples of all the design sections and a much better level of integration so one could actually scale things across the whole personal/vehicle/ship design, but then this begger isn't riding yet

Old saying reference in case you've never actually heard it. "If wishes were horses beggers would ride."

The CPU requirements (actually PP units) are listed on pg. 229-232 but there might have been some errata so check that. The computers themselves do have errata concerning PP available so look at that as well.

I also have a list of PP conversions of all the old CT programs I was working out around here somewhere. I'll post it here when I get a chance to find it, though it's not too hard to figure out for yourself if you want.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello FU,

Originally posted by Fu:So can we use the computer design sequence with starships or not ???

Yes, the CDS can be used to create a Starship's Computer in all respects except for EP as per the Standard Design p. 282 Ship's Computer Data Block and the requirements from Ship's Computer in the SSDS on p. 263. Right now my best suggestion is to use the SSDS Ship's Computers EP requirements instead of the CDS EP figures. Hopefully I or someone else will figure out how to get the CDS EP to match the SSDS Ship's Computers EP and post the fix here.

Originally posted by Fu:
This is really weird. I can see my players saying, humm this computer seems to have a lot of extra power, let's plug it in instead of this old crap over there...

To do so would require us to know the CPU requirements for the space ships programs...

Here is a listing of programs that I put together by combining Jeff Sandmeier's list and combing the programs list from other Traveller versions, CT, MT, TNE, T4.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Program Type Cost PP
Comp. Sec.- Active Def. Misc. 1,000 2
Comp. Sec.- Passive Def. Misc. 1,000 2
Comp. Intrusion-Target Virus Misc. 1,000 2
Comp. Intrusion-Virus Misc. 1,000 2
Comp. Intrusion-Worm Misc. 2,500 3
Database Misc. 1,000 1
Datalink Misc. 400 1
News Daemon Misc. 500 1
Word Processing Misc. 1,000 1
Spreadsheet Misc. 1,000 1</pre>[/QUOTE]This list is primarily the work of Jeff, with one or two I added and is drawn from the Character Skills section of the THB

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Normal Skills Type Cost PP Ability
Accounting Misc. 1,000 1 Int
Appraise [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Int
Balance [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Dex
Bluff [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Cha
Bribery [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Cha
Broker [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Int
T/Cartography Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Cleaning Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Climb [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Str
Combat Engineering [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Int
Computer Navigation Ops 1,000 1 Edu
Cooking Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Craft [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Int/Dex
Damage Control Ops 1,000 1 Int
Demolitions [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Dex
Disguise [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Cha
Driving [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Dex
Engineering Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Entertain [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Cha
Environmental Analysis Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Expert System Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Forgery [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Int/Dex
Forward Observer [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Int
Gambling [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Int
Gather Information [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Cha
Gunnery [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
Handle Animal [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Cha
Hide [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Dex
Innuendo [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
Security, Internal Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Intimidate [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Cha
Jump [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Str
K/Geology [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
K/Interstellar Law [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
K/Mining [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Knowledge [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Launch Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
Leader [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Int/Cha
Liason [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Cha
Move Silently [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Dex
Navigation [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Optical Recognition Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
P/Administration [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
P/Hunting [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
P/Journalist [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
P/Knowledge Related [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
P/Prospecting [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
P/Survey [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
Pilot [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Int/Dex
Profession [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
Read/Write Language [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Recruiting [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Ride [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Dex
Routine Vehicle Operations Misc. 1,000 1 Dex
Search [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Int
Security Misc. 1,000 1 Int/Wis
Sense Motive [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
Speak Language [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Spot [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
Survival [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
T/Astrogation [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
T/Communications [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
T/Computer [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
T/Electronics [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
T/Gravitics [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
T/Mechanical [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
T/Medical [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
T/Sensors [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Technical [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Trader [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Wis
T/Transmission Profiling Misc. 1,000 1 Edu
Tumble [T20] Misc. 1,000 1 Dex </pre>[/QUOTE]Note that the price and PP requirements are for the Skills programs are for a single skill point. Each desired level of skill increases both price and PP.

Hope the above helps.

 

[snrdg082102]

Lo again Fu,

Thank-you for the positive comments, I'm just trying to help out.

Maybe I can clear up some of the confusion. Please bear in mind that my comments, past, present, future (until I purchase the THB 2nd printing), are based on the information from THB 1st printing, the errata dated June 2003 and March 2003, and the revised Chapter 13: Standard Designs pages dated April 2003.

First, as far-trader indicated the CDS EP is geared more for the Vehicle Design Sequence (VDS). If you can get your hands on a copy of THB 1st printing, flip to p. 282. The text under the header "Ship's Computer" indicates that this Ep is divided by 10. Unfortunately, this method doesn't quite get the EP requirement to match the SSDS Ship's Computers Table on p. 263. Hopefully, someone, which includes me, will figure out a method to get the CDS EP and the SSDS EP to match. At this stage, as mentioned in another post, the best work around I can suggest is to use the SSDS Ship's Computers EP numbers instead of the CDS.

Next the short version: The CDS can be used to design a Ship's Computer, unfornately the system can not exactly duplicate the EP requirements listed for the SSDS Ship's Computers. The text under the Standard Designs Ship's Computer data block on p. 282 THB 1st printing gives a little help.

The Master 7 (M7) and Expert 3 (E3) can be used as a Model/7 (M/7?) SSDS and Standard Designs Ship's Computers provided they meet the:
</font>

• 1. PP requirement of 57/13.</font>
• 2. Core CPU Output, p. 224, to Type & Model CPU Req, p.224, and Standard Designs Ship's Computer CPU, p.282 THB 1st printng, requirements.</font>

The Long version:

As indicated in the post the last column of SSDS Ship's Computers Table, errata, dated June 23, 2003, changed the last column from Free CPU Output to PP, indicates that a Model/1 has a PP of 28/11 which matches the Total and Max PP requirements for a CDS Computer Type and Model of Master 1. In the example used here, I believe the "1000 CPU pts" equates to the column header of CPU Req. of 1000.

Flipping to p. 282, THB 1st printing, Standard Designs Ship's Computer data block, errata dated March 25, 2003 changed all the computers to TL 13, provides a list of a bare bones computer built using Advanced Synaptic Core units. By bare bones I mean that the systems listed in the table holds the core, and the 3 sub-systems identified in the SSDS Ship's Computer section. In CDS terms the data block is a summary of the requirements found in the Core Type and Computer Type and Model Tables on p. 224 for Ship's Computers.

Using the Model/1 Ship's Computer on p. 282 and the errata for SSDS Ship's Computers on p. 263 the PP requirements match each other. Flipping to p. 224 and checking the Computer Type/Model table columns 4 Total PP and 5 Max PP another match is made showing that the computer is a Master 1 computer. Referring back to p. 282 look at column 3 Units which equates to 1000 Advanced Synatpic Core units. According to the CDS Core table, p. 224, 1000 core units produces a CPU output of 10,000 (1000 x 10). Checking the Type/Model table CPU (Output, not the number of core units) Req. a CPU Output of 10,000 fits the requirements for a Master 4. Jumping back to p. 282 under column 7 CPU the number is 2500 (x4) which means that the core (responsible for Jump and other functions not handled by the 3 sub-systems), flight avionics sub-system (responsible for normal space and atmospheric flight), sensor sub-system, and comms sub-system each are allocated 2500 CPU Req pts of the 10,000 CPU Output pts created by the 1000 Advanced Synaptic core units. In other words the core, and 3 sub-systems are each allocated 250 Core units of the 1000 installed. Once more flipping pages back to p. 224 and yet another check of the Type/Model table the 2500 CPU pts from p. 282 now falls between Master 1 and Master 2. Since a Master 2 rating requires 3,000 CPU Output pts. the Model/1 is on p. 282 is rated a Master 1 (M1) which matches column 8 Model on p. 282. Under the SSDS Ship's Computer rules, Ship's Computers Table p. 263, the highest possible Model/# that should be listed on p. 282 for TL 13 is a Model/7. The Model/7 computer in the data block on p. 282 is rated as an M(aster)5 because each of the four components, core, avionics, sensors, and comms, uses 20,000 CPU Output/Req. pts which exceeds the minimum CPU Req. on the Type/Model Table p. 224, of 15,000 for a M5 but are just short of getting a M6 rating.

A computer rated M/7 can actually control a jump-6 when an E-3 cannot. While the E-3 requires 3 times the amount of hardware the M/7 has.

Here is what I think the above text is saying. A CDS Master 7 computer can be used by a Starship to make a Jump 6 trip and an Expert 3 computer cannot. Also the Expert 3 requires 3 times more hardware than the Master 7. Below is a comparison of the two computers using the information provided under the column headers of Model, CPU, and a combined Total/Max pp from the CDS Computer Type and Model table on p. 224 for a non-SSDS Ship's computer

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Type Model Abbr. CPU Req.** PP
Master 7 M7 28,000 73/14
Expert 3 E3 91,000 135/17</pre>[/QUOTE]** CPU Req = Core CPU Output

Before going to the SSDS to check out a Ship's Computer Model/7 requirements I am going to create the core to go along the the table above.
Since this is a TL 11 computer I will use Synatic core units to create the base computer.

It will take 2,800 synatic core units to get a CPU Output of 28,000, which is what an M7 computer requires. Moving to the E3 9,100 synaptic units are needed to achieve the model and rating desired.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Type & Core # CPU CPU
Model Type Units Output Req. PP
M7 Synaptic 2800 28000 28000 57/13
E3 Synaptic 9100 91000 91000 135/17</pre>[/QUOTE]Core CPU Output = Computer Type CPU Req = Standard Design CPU

Based on the SSDS Model/7 Ship's Computer PP requirement, p. 263, of 57/13 both the M7 and E3 can be used. However, checking out the Standard Design Ship's Computer data block, p. 282 THB 1st printing, a Model/7 has to divide the CPU Output, called CPU, between the core, flight avionics, sensors, and comms. Dividing the CPU Output by 4 the M7 has a CPU of 7000 (X4) and the E3 has a CPU of 22750 (X4). Looking, once more, at the Computer Type and Model Table the current CPU of 7,000 drops the M7 to a M3 and the 22,750 drops the E3 to a M6.

In order to have a Model/7 Ship's computer with a M7 rating 11,200 synaptic core units are needed. To have a Model/7 Ship's Computer with an E3 36,400 Synaptic core units are needed.

Originally posted by Fu:
I have just read some of his posts.

Really good info in there, will dig deeper.

BUT !

So using the model/1 numbers listed (28/11) you can determine that it is a Master/1 computer.

It then requires 1000 CPU pts.

A parallel design using these numbers, built at TL 9, (1 TL to mini 1 TL to cost) comes up as

cost 0.1, vl 607.5 (around .5 ton, 1400 vl per ton) and a whooping EP req of 40.5...

Which is the only way to jump at that TL.

What bugs me there is that the computer cores for starships are listed as having an EP of ZERO !

Reading between the lines tell us that actually, only skills need the second number of a computer model, IE, A jump program only uses PP capacity, while Gunnery-4 uses up 4 PP cap and 4 PP out of the max PP column.

So, if I build a ship around a model E/1 computer at TL 11 it will be, ok i have understood. IT IS NOT LOGICAL. A computer rated M/7 can actually control a jump-6 when an E-3 cannot. While the E-3 requires 3 times the amount of hardware the M/7 has.

Clearly something is broken there.

Can you clarify ?
(I know it's not new, I am trying to accept the current rules)

Francois

 

[snrdg082102]

I think I'm done for the time being I've got page two all to myself.

 

[FrancoisUldry]

LOL...

Thanks for the nice work.

Francois