Conspiracy Theories of the Rebellion

[mike wightman]

Perhaps the Mongoose Traveller authors should learn to do some basic research.

Dark Nebula gives Solomani Confederation Cruiser Squadrons. Why would they stop building them?

The order of battle for Invasion Earth specifically mentions Solomani jump capable ships have already fled, the fleet counters remaining are the BR...

there has to be more info on the Solomani Confederation fleet somewhere other than MgT.

 

[Garnfellow]

Perhaps the Mongoose Traveller authors should learn to do some basic research.

You're really reaching with both of those examples.

 

[mike wightman]

Lol, not really.

The first example is concrete proof of Solomani Confederation CruRons in the Dark Nebula era.

I can not explain why the Solomani Confederation would stop building the various cruiser squadrons that are listed.

The second fact worries me that an author assuming because there are no cruiser counters on the Solomani side in I:E the Solomani Confederation therefore has no cruiser squadrons in its fleet order of battle hasn't actually read the game rules.

They then invent the fluff based on a misunderstanding.

The Solomani Fleet at the outset of the Solomani Rim war was basically identical in composition and organisation to the Imperial fleet, since that's what it was until its crews defected to the Solomani Confederation.

Was there a Solomani fleet written up for Power Projection: Fleet?

 

[kilemall]

So how treasonous is it to pass on these conspiracy theories, or worse truths?


Would we all end up in Imperial prisons/Zho reconditioning/Sol thought camps?


Or are we unwitting Hiver agents?

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Not me.

Chaos, panic, disorder. My job here is done. Back to the Confederation for me.

Solomani Uber Alles!

:smirk:

 

[Condottiere]

The Confederation Navy was brimming with cruisers during the War of Imperium Aggression.

I suspect that cruiser procurement for the Confederation Navy has been hijacked for the last half century, and that there is a distinctive gap between two and hundred kay warships.

My take on it is that only (Deep) Strike Cruisers are regularly constructed, and any cruisers are directly commanded by the Confederation Navy Central Headquarters, and detached for independent cruises from the Strategic Reserve.

Member world navies would likely have cruisers that they had procured for themselves, and have been passed down from the Confederation Navy.

I've accepted the dichotomy and see it as an opportunity for interesting doctrines.

 

[Garnfellow]

The first example is concrete proof of Solomani Confederation CruRons in the Dark Nebula era.

Come on, Mike -- "concrete proof"? I love Dark Nebula, I think the system names alone beat any region of Charted Space for sheer inspiration. But its canonical authority is not exactly unimpeachable. The best one can say about the boardgame's relationship to the OTU is "it hasn't been decanonized yet." For starters, when and where is DN set? If you could establish it was set in a specific area of Charted Space at any time between 1002 and 1120, I would be 100% with you.

The second fact worries me that an author assuming because there are no cruiser counters on the Solomani side in I:E the Solomani Confederation therefore has no cruiser squadrons in its fleet order of battle hasn't actually read the game rules.

Keep in mind, the Mongoose writers were following the lead of MJD's T20 work. And that's an important point.

You might not like the decisions, and you might have good and defensible reasons for your preferences, but it's not fair to claim that the Mongoose writers failed to conduct basic research here. I can't speak to all of the Mongoose books, but a careful reading of the MGT Solomani Rim supplement and the Solomani alien module shows that the authors certainly put the work in. They very clearly tried to thoughtfully incorporate tricky bits of "forbidden canon" from DGP as well as relevant information from T20 and GURPS Traveller. I don't love all the decisions, but I haven't found any that were made due to sloppiness or wanton disregard of earlier work.

The Solomani Fleet at the outset of the Solomani Rim war was basically identical in composition and organisation to the Imperial fleet, since that's what it was until its crews defected to the Solomani Confederation.

Nope. The Solomani reorganized themselves as the Confederation in 871, a "move . . . tantamount to declaring independence." By 908, following the ascension of Margret II, you see armed confrontation between the Imperium and Confederation, and "minor engagements by the opposing fleets occurred more and more often."

By this point you certainly had two distinct navies. The Solomani War doesn't begin until 990: that's plenty of time to evolve divergent naval structures.

 

[mike wightman]

Come on, Mike -- "concrete proof"? I love Dark Nebula, I think the system names alone beat any region of Charted Space for sheer inspiration. But its canonical authority is not exactly unimpeachable. The best one can say about the boardgame's relationship to the OTU is "it hasn't been decanonized yet." For starters, when and where is DN set? If you could establish it was set in a specific area of Charted Space at any time between 1002 and 1120, I would be 100% with you.

The events of Dark Nebula definitely take place within the OTU - it is right there in the timeline in MT IE in the form of the Aslan Border wars.
My explanation is that within the Dark Nebula is a T5 reality manipulation device left over from a culture that long predates the Ancients :CoW:

And yes - it is a tenuous link at best - why are the Solomani forces called Solomani Confederation about two millennia before that particular organisation rises to prominence?

But - it does show the Solies did build cruiser squadrons, just like they do in TA9. There is also evidence for the Solomani Confederation building cruisers in DGP'S Solomani and Aslan.

Keep in mind, the Mongoose writers were following the lead of MJD's T20 work. And that's an important point.

I don't think they gave two hoots to MJDs work in early MgT.

You might not like the decisions, and you might have good and defensible reasons for your preferences, but it's not fair to claim that the Mongoose writers failed to conduct basic research here.

I could write a book on the difference between established canon pre-MgT and the MgT ATU. Suffice to say the early works were written by people who had little to no setting knowledge - by their own and others admission.

I can't speak to all of the Mongoose books, but a careful reading of the MGT Solomani Rim supplement and the Solomani alien module shows that the authors certainly put the work in. They very clearly tried to thoughtfully incorporate tricky bits of "forbidden canon" from DGP as well as relevant information from T20 and GURPS Traveller. I don't love all the decisions, but I haven't found any that were made due to sloppiness or wanton disregard of earlier work.

I can't fault the attention to detail or word count in MgT Solomani Rim.

Nope. The Solomani reorganized themselves as the Confederation in 871, a "move . . . tantamount to declaring independence." By 908, following the ascension of Margret II, you see armed confrontation between the Imperium and Confederation, and "minor engagements by the opposing fleets occurred more and more often."

With Imperial equipment, shipyards etc. They then began building their own as detailed in TA9.

By this point you certainly had two distinct navies. The Solomani War doesn't begin until 990: that's plenty of time to evolve divergent naval structures.

They would and did diverge. I agree.

Despite the way its coming across I actually like the fluff about building less cruisers (I just wondered where it was mentioned) - what is the same size as a cruiser and much more useful in an offensive war? Battle Riders.

The Solomani Confederation making preparations for a swift reconquest of Solomani territory would be able to offset the Imperial TL advantage by having lots of riders and a large fleet of tenders that can ferry both Solomani regular forces and conscripted polity forces quickly across the border.

Battleships and the like have the flexibility to bug out, battleriders area take it or lose proposition - which to my mind would fit the Solie psyche of the era.

Rats and Cats actually has this little quote:

we have found the construction and maintainance of a large. effective fleet to be an incredible expense - especially give our tendency to build large ships of the line such as carriers, battle-ships, and heavy cruisers.

and then there is what TA9 has to say on the matter:

CRUISERS Intermediate sized vessels in the 10,000-80,000 ton range, cruisers are versatile vessels capable of inflicting significant damage on larger ships, while at the same time able to meet a wide variety of demands – independent patrolling, deep strike, missile, escort and interdiction.
The Solomani Navy employs Heavy Cruisers for escorting capital units and Strike Cruisers for fast devastating strikes behind enemy lines or in surprise attacks. High-jump capability Deep Strike Cruisers are designed for long-range penetration of enemy territory attacking commerce, enemy bases and depots, and other targets of opportunity. Deep Strike Cruisers will invariably be escorted by Deep Strike Destroyers with similar jump performance. Light Cruisers are designed for multi-purpose roles including escorting larger cruisers, carriers and support vessels as well as independent commerce raiding and light strike missions.

 

[Condottiere]

And for all practical purposes, the Confederation lost, sheer attrition and the recall of the frontier fleets convincing the Imperium to settle for what they had, rather than risk facing fresh units.

I'm pretty sure that the way the current Confederation Navy is configured, they are building up their line of battle formations in order to force early decisive actions, since you build capital ships before a conflict, with two kay tonne vessels acting as reconnaissance, communications, patrol, raiding, and possibly anti aerospacecraft defence ships.

If you assume that the aesthetic chosen for ship design in The Fighting Ships of the Solomani Confederation wasn't an accident, then continuing on with the Empire doctrine of maintaining massive star destroyers, supported by minor combatants, is a logical extension.

My suspicion is that Confederalized major and intermediate combatants from member world navies will be used to fill the cruiser gap.

 

[Kilgs]

Let us please return to the regularly scheduled topic... ;-)

 

[The Pakkrat]

Zhodani Influence
In Gvurrdon Sector
A Conspiracy Consideration

Q: Did the Zhodani Consulate in Gvurrdon Sector utilize psychohistory, or cliodynamics (a mix of cultural evolution, economic history/cliometrics and macrosociology), when they gave psionics testing and training to the Thirz Empire? If so, why, other than to influence the Thirz into a treaty that many outsiders saw as a client state of the Zhodani. If not, then why did they offer psionics in the first place? What supplied this forethought if any?

The Thirz Empire was formed in 1016 and the Zhodani gave the polity psionics testing and training. The Oruelaen was formed by the new, Vargr King immediately afterwards.

By comparison, the Society of Equals was formed in 400 (RM’s Gvur), over 600 years before the development of the Thirz Empire. (Mongoose has the year as 831 for the Society, 58 years before the Thirz in 889, still holding the Dzen Aeng Kho as being older.)

Q: What did Zhodani already know about Gvurrdon Sector that they decided to ally with the Thirz?
The Thirz Empire’s King used this gift of psionics to institute the Oruelaen, the psionic agents of the King as General over this elite agency of public relations, bodyguarding the King, investigations, intelligence, observation (both peacetime and during war), undercover operations, negotiation and protection of valued individuals such as Emissaries.

The Equality War (1111-1116)¹ in which the Society of Equals lost almost half (47%) of its territories in Gvurrdon and a significant portion of its ability to efficiently build starships, even though the Thirz Empire later gave each world a choice of staying with the Thirz, becoming non-aligned or returning to the Dzen Aeng Kho. The Society of Equals saw the recent death of the Thirz Empire’s King and the young successor, Oekhuso Thir 59587B (Gvegh Vargr male born 305-1089) and fourth successor take the throne as a golden opportunity to take advantage of his perceived inexperience.

Q: Why did the Society of Equals think that they could defeat the Thirz Empire, even if they attacked simultaneously across broad fronts and catching the Thirz off-guard? Did the Zhodani, through the King of the Thirz, use the Oruelaen to spread unfounded bravery and a desire for Charisma in the Dzen Aeng Kho to spur them to attack?

Q: Were the Thirz truly caught off-guard?
Consulting the map of the Thirz Empire and its ally to Spinward – the massive Zhodani Consulate, it is easy to see that the Thirz had many worlds that could and did withstand the initial onslaught and advance of the Society of Equals. In the first moves of the Equality War, the forces of the Society gained much ground on the Trailing in Uerra Rueshken and Ongvos Subsectors.

Q: How much war support did the Zhodani bolster the Thirz, publicly or in secret? Was their help in truth just advisory?
In the aftermath of the Equality War, the Society of Equals lost abundant and thus valuable worlds such as:

Gantsugh (0809) A000100-D As Lo Va, an outpost and belter’s mining delight with sufficient tech levels to maintain an outpost of operations indefinitely so long as the Society of Equals held up the lines of trade.

Khaeknae (0815) B585898-9 Ri Pa Ph, a valuable source of previously hidden lanthanum, a key resource in starship jumpdrives.

Dzerrdhakse (1116) A766645-B Ag Ga Na Ri, with its Naval Base this world is a nexus of inflowing trade, a local shipyard and three gas giants for endless spacefaring resources.

Ksethu (1112) A00089B-E As Na Ph Pi Pz Va, another favorite of belters, with a variety of mineral, metal and even a local secret, a covered-up discovery of natural zuchai crystals, another component for starship jumpdrives. At TL 14, this world was secretly a treasure trove despite its high Law and Impersonal Bureaucracy. Because of this world’s stifling Law Level (and pseudo-Amber Zone), it must have taken no less than the Oruelaen infiltration to learn its true measure.

DUERONGVOE (1413) B664997-C Cx (RM’s Gvur) Hi Pr, though lost to the Thirz Empire in the Equality War, this world elected to be returned to the Society of Equals later, thinking wrongly that other worlds to Rimward would follow suit.

AEGADH (1317) B737AEC-B Hi Pz, with a staggering Population of 90 billion and the home of the Church Of The Chosen Ones as a world with no taxes, (instead being Church tithes), this world was huge workforce loss.

Urkhaksadh (1415) A420212-B De He Lo Po, may be just a stepping stone but its A-rated Downport and 500 workers was vital to interstellar trade as a crossroads.

Q: Did the Zhodani manipulate the Thirz into knowingly and patiently waiting for and subtly baiting the Society of Equals into attacking the new King’s worlds, thus giving them excuse to turn the tide of war back upon the Dzen Aeng Kho? Was the War a justifiable excuse for taking the above worlds, even if very few chose to be returned after the armistice? How much, if this is true, was advised by the Zhodani to Spinward?

The Society of Equals was suitably diminished after the Equality War. So much so, that only upon the Collapse of the Thoengling Empire, (a member of the then Spinward Assembly), did other polities including Regency pressure the Dzen Aeng Kho into upholding stricter a Quarantine Line to halt the devastating Virus and vampire ships after 1131. More than 150 billion Vargr remained on Society worlds lost in the War.

After the Equality War, a political and social line between the Thirz Empire and the Society of Equals formed. It was called the Edge. A cold war of smoldering attitudes set in as captured worlds chose to stay with the Thirz, elect independence as non-aligned or return to the Dzen Aeng Kho.

• Actions in Zhevra’s Dance² exposed in 1190, even if in minute instances, proof that the Oruelaen presence in the Society of Equals was engaged in more than mere observation, with both positive effect (institution of the Quarantine Line) and negative effect (loss of resource worlds). After this came to light on Dzuerongvoe, the former capital of the polity increased its awareness of psionics and the Oruelaen despite there being only purported 250 members of the psionics corps.

• One journalist, a propaganda actress for Kfan Uzangou, saw that many ex-patriates of the Society of Equals had not returned from Thirz occupied worlds in the decades after the Equality War. In 1190, she crossed the Edge, over to former Society worlds and learned why. With her magazine’s TL 14 robot, she learned the truth of the Zhodani conspiracy and scratched the surface of their psychohistory manipulations in Gvurrdon Sector.

Q: Had the Zhodani not manipulated the Thirz and the Society into the Equality War, would the Dzen Aeng Kho have been better prepared for the coming of Virus in the early 1130s? Would more starships equate to a more insidious infection by vampire ships of the times?
With many polities’ attentions focused on the Third Imperium and its Rebellion, this smaller chapter in Charted Space history is lesser read.

¹This report takes content elements from Roger Malmstein’s Gvurrdon Sectorbook, Alien Module 2: Vargr and Gvurrdon Sector (Mongoose Publishing). Since the two latter draw somewhat from Malmstein’s work, it is fitting to include details from both in the observations made here.
²Zhevra’s Dance, novel written by Pakkrat starting in November 2015 and into 2016.

 

[AtlanticFriend]

Lucan's story is true, he was the survivor of an attempted assassination and Windhook's testimony is fake to stir trouble.

Windhoek was the real assassin. Isn't it a funny coincidence that he knew Imprey, the man chosen by Dulinor to kill the two princes? Or that a lightly-armed Imprey had been sent alone to kill the two princes, two healthy and vigorous young men mind you, and who could be expected to have bodyguards by their side at all times? And that bizarro story of a panicked Windhoek nevertheless managing to boss soldiers around, forge travel orders on the fly without ever arousing suspicion, then boarding an Imperiallines cruiser and poof, disappearing, just like that? Highly suspicious. He was no ordinary lieutenant, I say, that screams special agent/assassin/Zhodani mind-controller I tell you!!