Copyright for non-commercial software

[Tysis]

Not sure if this the proper place for this but consider the following hypothetical scenario:

A programmer writes an application using a legacy set of Traveller rules. Parties that cannot or will not grant any kind of license own some of the material that the software was based on. The software is not public domain, but is also not commercial; meaning that the author allows it to be used for personal use but not in conjunction with any kind of business venture.

Assuming that the copyright holders are properly credited, are there any issues with releasing such a thing to the public? In the past the same programmer has been rather wary and has simple kept some good stuff to himself.

 

[daryen]

I am not a copyright lawyer, nor do I pretend to be one, nor do I want to be one.

That said, if someone (let's say Fred) wrote a program that automates or encapsulates some part of someone else's (let's say Bill) intellectual property.

With no permissions from anyone, Fred may use that program for his own use however he wants. However, he may not distribute it (in any manner) without Bill's express permission. This does not matter whether Fred wants to do it for free or get paid. He must get Bill's permission.

Now, it is quite common for people in Bill's position to give wide latitude for releasing such programs for free. Both FFE/MWM and SJG have very liberal policies in this regard. However, this is not guaranteed, nor may it be assumed. If there is no stated policy, you must ask.

 

[aramis]

The big problems are trademark (you can't label it for use with any trademarked item unless the trademark owner says you can), not copyright.

It would be awful hard to prove copyright violations via software unless one also violates the trademarks... Mostly since finding the intended audience will require the use of the trademarks.

Note further: if you violate someone's IP, and they call you on it, it can get real expensive really quick.

 

[Hemdian]

I'm also not a lawyer but I'll add ...

If it has any GURPS material then there is a web page on SJGames website detailing their exact position on this and what you need to do. (I'm at work right now so can't look up the page address for you.)

As for FFE ... you can always drop Marc an email and ask him directly. Its always best to ask first and he's been very fair in the past.

 

[Tysis]

Thanks all, did not figure there would be an easy answer. This stuff is basically a large body of intellectual property. I myself have been claiming rights to the processes that implement that knowledge since automation has been rather challenging.

I could speak with my attorney but I imagine his answer will be either vague or tell me to keep it to myself. My experiences with Marc have been that he is rather lenient in this regard, but considering the uncertainty I will continue my keep it to myself policy in regard to legacy products (those before T5). I do not expect any trouble with T5, since that is under Marc’s exclusive control, but who knows what I will do.

Of course, I could simply remove all material that is not in a books produced by GDW, FFE, and so on. All of those are owned my Marc.

Thanks again!

 

[Icosahedron]

And so another beneficial gift to the community bites the dust, thanks to the Frankenstein monster of Copyright Law that was created to serve us all...

 

[aramis]

No, Icos, due to Trademark laws introduced to benefit businesses by the English crown in the 1600's, and carried forward into our laws by either inheritance (US & Commonwealth) or immitation (rest of the world).

 

[Gnusam Netor]

Why not just send a mail and ask?

Anyway, the worst thing that could happen (assuming you are honest in your description of course), is that you lose intellectual control over your software to the copyright holder.

 

[Tysis]

And so another beneficial gift to the community bites the dust, thanks to the Frankenstein monster of Copyright Law that was created to serve us all...

Yeah I am using Traveller projects to bone up for my MCSD. Its really a shame. Honestly I have no intention of making money from it (lets face it, this market is not a big one).

 

[Tysis]

Why not just send a mail and ask?

Anyway, the worst thing that could happen (assuming you are honest in your description of course), is that you lose intellectual control over your software to the copyright holder.

As for Marc I know what he will say (I have had such communications with him). Since this is non-commerical all you have to do is credit him properly. The other license holder, however, appears to be unreachable.

And no, loosing intellectual control is not the worse thing that could happen. Damages could result, and I really doubt that the settlement would stop at who ends up with the software.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Can you say who this mysterious other person is?

 

[Tysis]

Can you say who this mysterious other person is?

Certainly. Here is what I am up to. I am killing two birds with one stone here. Writing some Traveller stuff in .NET (currently VS 2008) so we (friends and myself) get utilities and I get some practice in for the .NET MCSD. No way I am taking work home to practice this stuff.

I have written a number of utilities (who knows where the old ones went), some of which actually got finished (when I learn what I set out to I tend to stop and move on to something else).

So, my first project was a word generator. Remember all those word tables in MegaTraveller? Well it’s a component that fetches language definitions from an XML file (you can make up your own as well) and you can generate words and save them back to XML or use them in another application. It is a Simple little component that was written to try out some basic concepts. I know the word tables are based on DGP material, which is owned by Roger Sanger. Not sure about the methodology, but it could very well be DGP material.

Moving on to the current project. System generation. As in system generation using the TNE (we like the design system but we tossed virus, etc) and the supplementary data from World Tamer (owned by Marc), and World Builder's Handbook (owned by Roger).


It is still mostly an API (I have not worked on the user interface beyond testing things like drawing a sector grid), but I am up to the "social outlook" material in World Builder. The user interface will be the most difficult aspect (usually is).

Now, I have contacted both Marc and Roger in the past. Marc's position is basically that I can release his material in this format provided credit is given and I do not sell it. That’s fine with me. Roger so far has never responded. Do not know if he is getting the e-mails or what. I have made a recent attempt, so we will see.

Basically, if I get permission I will share what I come up with under strict non-commercial licensing rights (which honestly will not affect us here). Otherwise, well I am afraid I will have to keep it to myself. Anything based solely on FFE material will be released, however.

Now, if anyone knows Roger, you can feel free to have a little chat with him, or send him to me.

 

[aramis]

Just don't include Roger's stuff. Simple enough; all the DGP language tables got reprinted in MT core rules (see Rebellion Sourcebook and Referee's Companion).

Don's been working on replacement redevelopments of the DGP MT alien CG tables. (Yes, reinventing the wheel.)

 

[Tysis]

Just don't include Roger's stuff. Simple enough; all the DGP language tables got reprinted in MT core rules (see Rebellion Sourcebook and Referee's Companion).

Don's been working on replacement redevelopments of the DGP MT alien CG tables. (Yes, reinventing the wheel.)

Well I can probably remove the language tables from the DGP alien's manuals and post the component. Guess I can create a little application (you would laugh at the test application) to host it. I could also provide instructions to fill out the XML data (there is a schema for it). After all, if you paid for the books you are entitled to use the data.

As for the world builder, well I use WBH heavily and I am writing the software for personal use. The only thing permission will change is whether or not I will share it. I could provide a "gutted" version; a subset of WBH appeared in World Tamer's handbook.

Oh, and reinvented the wheel is a Traveller (and programmer) tradition!

 

[aramis]

Well I can probably remove the language tables from the DGP alien's manuals and post the component. Guess I can create a little application (you would laugh at the test application) to host it. I could also provide instructions to fill out the XML data (there is a schema for it). After all, if you paid for the books you are entitled to use the data.

You don't need to; Roger does not own the language tables.

Actually, the only one not in CT was Vilani. And it's in the MT Ref's Companion. (As are Vargr, Droyne, Zhodani, and Vargr), and are all directly Marc's IP (even though they appear in DGP materials). Darrian and K'Kree are only in the CT AM's only; again, Marc's.

 

[Tysis]

Well now perhaps I should spend some time and tidy up this thing (the word generator component)?

Can anyone use it?

Oh, and please forgive my ignorance but who is Don?

 

[aramis]

Yes, it is a useful (if oft programmed) functionality.

As for implementing the process within WBH, Roger has not been obsessive about definding the IP from actual gaming use.... just from reprint.

 

[Tysis]

Yeah the name generator was an easy problem (ok, well a trivial solution). Being an old C++ programmer, I just needed to get the structure of the .NET framework down. So I took a look at my Traveller and picked out some projects. Name generator first, world builder second, then fire, fusion, and steel. Each has a specific set of lessons.

The goals were simple for the name generator:
1. Create an XML schema to describe the data file.
2. Create an XML file describing the languages
3. Read the XML file that describes the languages
4. Serialize the objects to and from an XML file.

It takes longer to type in a language definition than to code the component. I am considering the issue of source code before I post it.

As for WBH, that is probably true. It would probably be rather hard to prosecute. I am going to pass the question to my attorney. Let’s see what he has to say. If you have ever dealt with pre-Wizards TSR you understand my apprehension here.

 

[aramis]

Yes, I have.

Moreover, I got a cease and decist from Kevin Simbieda over a page with information on Palladium (the metal) back in the early days of the internet. (about 1994.)

Might I also suggest actually reading the relevant information from copyright.gov for yourself. Tabular data is not always copyrightable.

 

[Gnusam Netor]

And no, loosing intellectual control is not the worse thing that could happen. Damages could result, and I really doubt that the settlement would stop at who ends up with the software.

Assuming you are doing this with no profit motive and do not harm the IP in some other way, I can not see how further damages could be warranted. IF it is indeed as you claim, then the law where you live is unreasonable and should be changed.