RabidVargr
SOC-13
See Hunter! There's another one! If you take much longer, we'll start dropping like flies and our credit will be no good! *hint hint HINT*Originally posted by Reginald:
Now it's the waiting that is killing me!
RV
cost of t20
- Thread starter trader jim
- Start date
RV
All this talk about cost makes me think I've fallen in waith a bunch of whining Vilani merchants ...
Fortunately, for the PHB problem there is some help near at hand. (busts out super-duper Open-Gaming outfit)
Whilst it's outside the scope of a d20 license to tell you how to raise a characters' level, it is not outside the scope of the Open Gaming License. The result? As long as you don't put a d20 logo on your product you can repeat verbatim the appropriate level gaining sections from the SRD (the bits of the PHB tha are open content).
Now this is going to take some Solomani wage-slave a little bit of time to do (like about 4 hours). This particular Sol-wage-slave might even put his hand up for it if certain Vilani merchants would like to see the result.
Anyone interested?
Fortunately, for the PHB problem there is some help near at hand. (busts out super-duper Open-Gaming outfit)
Whilst it's outside the scope of a d20 license to tell you how to raise a characters' level, it is not outside the scope of the Open Gaming License. The result? As long as you don't put a d20 logo on your product you can repeat verbatim the appropriate level gaining sections from the SRD (the bits of the PHB tha are open content).
Now this is going to take some Solomani wage-slave a little bit of time to do (like about 4 hours). This particular Sol-wage-slave might even put his hand up for it if certain Vilani merchants would like to see the result.
Anyone interested?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Heh, another great mind?Originally posted by Falkayn:
Fortunately, for the PHB problem there is some help near at hand. (busts out super-duper Open-Gaming outfit)
Whilst it's outside the scope of a d20 license to tell you how to raise a characters' level, it is not outside the scope of the Open Gaming License.
Anyone interested?
I was thinking along this very line when I posted recently hinting at the fact I might (given time and inspiration) solve all those laments this very way, but I needed to check the ogl stuff again to be sure I had understood it. I've been too busy as yet, and still trying to come up with an idea for my Traveler (note the single 'l' spelling) ogl freeware gamette (very small game). Of course if all T20 is really missing is the basic xp table and rules it may not be needed, so we'll see if my muse visits soon. Or go ahead yourself
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
rabidvargr - soooooo you like to shoot people in the ass with a paintball gun!!! that is so.....so...VARGR!!! geeeee in my book - you really are a allright guy!!!
lord irial
SOC-12
My god, an Ael Yael! You're a long jump from home, fly-boy.
j/k
Yeah, we're whiny, but this is the instant gratification generation(s). ...and the book is expensive and overdue. I know I hate eating ramen to afford gaming material, and while I'm happy to say that I haven't sunk that low in a long while, there are likely those here who are debating just that. Nutritious food, or T20; nutritious food, or T20?
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
mr nightshade - i am a pretty rough and tumble kinda guy - sometimes while posting to this forum, i get kinda carried away, and i have been "called on the carpet" for it. O WELL thats just my personality, but i try not to hurt any one, i know this is a free forum, but there are limits, even i see them!! IF YOU CANT AFFORD IT-GET OFF WELFARE-GET A JOB-OR GET A REAL JOB-OR JUST GET A JOB!!! this statement you made is over the limit as i see it, just my opinion. there are many people on this forum from ALL walks of life, thay all have different financial prioritys!! BILLS,BILLS, and more BILLS!!! there raising kids,
paying the "rates" making house payments and on and on, even a lot of singles of this would are having money problems!!! i could go on withthis thread but wont you get the idea. i have been blown up AND machined gunned in my life so i have
earned the right to speak. that statement is way to strong, and it would be nice if you withdrew it. just my opinion. thanx
paying the "rates" making house payments and on and on, even a lot of singles of this would are having money problems!!! i could go on withthis thread but wont you get the idea. i have been blown up AND machined gunned in my life so i have
earned the right to speak. that statement is way to strong, and it would be nice if you withdrew it. just my opinion. thanx
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Gotta agree with Trader Jim here. I work hard for my money. Went to school, wrote a provincial exam and paid (And still pay) licencing fees for the priviledge of doing my job.
I am -I think- one of the loudest complainers about this... chiseling job WotC is doing. Though cool headed after thoughts and the glow of coming home from a great evening a 3e D&D are making more mellow on the issue.
It's Not about the money for T20 itself it's the nasty little (you must buy -our- d&d book to play -your- game) That sticks in my craw.
But yeah, I think it's insulting to imply that I need to get a job just because I deplore the extra 40 plus dollars canadian that WotC is attempting to extort from me.
I am -I think- one of the loudest complainers about this... chiseling job WotC is doing. Though cool headed after thoughts and the glow of coming home from a great evening a 3e D&D are making more mellow on the issue.
It's Not about the money for T20 itself it's the nasty little (you must buy -our- d&d book to play -your- game) That sticks in my craw.
But yeah, I think it's insulting to imply that I need to get a job just because I deplore the extra 40 plus dollars canadian that WotC is attempting to extort from me.
If I have offended anyone must say - just go ahead and flame me if that is your desire (I don't feel that I have been flamed though). I have spoken my opinion and it might not have been a politically correct way to do so. Eh, everybody has his or her opinion.
If someone wants the game they will buy it even if they have to save up for it and the Player's Handbook to do so. Complaining about it ain't gonna make the financial realities go away - the gaming industry is built upon barely profitable sales and it will stay that way.
Ask Santa, Christmas is only about four months away.
If someone wants the game they will buy it even if they have to save up for it and the Player's Handbook to do so. Complaining about it ain't gonna make the financial realities go away - the gaming industry is built upon barely profitable sales and it will stay that way.
Ask Santa, Christmas is only about four months away.
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
nightshade - i not going to "flame" you not my style. not my place. hope you dont feel flamed.
i expressed a strong opinion. i still feel the same, you expressed yours, let other express theirs.
i expressed a strong opinion. i still feel the same, you expressed yours, let other express theirs.
RabidVargr
SOC-13
Well buddy, consider yourself *BaaWoosh!* flamed. I hope that makes you feel better.
I think $36 is a fine price for the game. I currently buy a video game about once every other month at the regular price, and often go through the $9 bargin bin for anything I wanted but budgeted out a year ago. $45 is on the higher end, but hey, one less computer game for the wife to snarl at me about.
Although I'm not on welfare, my pay is pathetic for the hours I put in + my experience. (E-5 w/8 years) The saddest thing is after 6 months on the job, my wife already makes more than me. This, more than anything, tells me that my retirement lies outside the military. Think I'm gonna work Merchant Marine on Ocean going craft for about 10 years and retire at 40. Then I'll have time to play T20 4th edition and DND 10th Ed.
RV
Join the navy, see the world, experience poverty and foodstamps, and recieve the worst medical care allowable for your family provided by the wonderfully obtuse folks at Tricare. Contact your nearest Navy Recruiter today!
RabidVargr
SOC-13
I love it! It's the biggest stress reliever I've ever experienced. Everyone should try it! Come to Hawaii, I'll show you guys a good field or two!
RV
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
O HO - e-5 with a family, bills and broke - boy do we have a lot in common - BEEN THERE< DONE THAT!! and it aint like traveller, when you get out you do NOT get a high berth home!! 15 years after that you got 3 kids - a house, and in debt to the tune of $150,000 or more!!! now its your turn!! ITS THE AMERICAN WAY!!! and dont forget some college!!
RabidVargr
SOC-13
I'm one social science (gag) class away from a Associate of science in (inhales) Technical science with a minor in Electronics and Health Care. As soon as that's done, I'll continue work in getting my (inhales again) Bach of Science in Business management with a focus in health care admin and a minor in electronics. Do you really get paid more the longer your degree title is? As far as how I'm gonna make money in the future, I'm starting a side business (as soon as I find out where they want me to go) building custom computers and doing in home installs and training. That'll build up some moolah so I can start my Home Health care business for seniors and disabled pink... people. Annnnnd when that's up and running well and I've got a good sized client base, I'll hire a good manager, get him to run most of it, and get myself a cushy merchant marine job working costal boats (tugs and the like). I think I'm pretty well set up on what I'm gonna be doing for the future. Might even have one or two pups. Anyone know what the going rate is for kids? I can sell em off when they hit 6, so I don't have to worry about pinkies with more hair than me trying to date my daughter and stuff like that.
RV
(Just kidding about selling the kids. I wouldn't do that. How much? These are quality genes you're getting here. )
RV
(Just kidding about selling the kids. I wouldn't do that. How much? These are quality genes you're getting here.
)RabidVargr
SOC-13
Oh yeah, for college I have 102 credits through the military alone, and for my 40+ civvy college creds, I owe a grand total of $1500. Navy's good for something at least.
And before someone asks, most schools don't like to take many credits from other institutions, especially the military. Cuts into the incredible sums of money they can make off you for a piece of paper that says you're smart and should be paid more.
RV
And before someone asks, most schools don't like to take many credits from other institutions, especially the military. Cuts into the incredible sums of money they can make off you for a piece of paper that says you're smart and should be paid more.
RV
* sighs *
Some people don't get it, huh?
I'm a d20 gamer by way of D&D 3e, so I already have my Player's Handbook.
T20 is obviously aimed at gamers (like me) who already possess the Player's Handbook (as I said, like me) which is a pretty large customer base. So if you guys want to jump into the d20 bandwagon, you might as well get the Player's Handbook.
Otherwise, you have other options ... GURP Traveller (I assume you need the GURP Basic Set rulebook), the Classic Traveller, Traveller: The New Era, Traveller 5th Edition, etc.
P.S. Don't worry about me. As long as I take my medicine and read my other purchases (Spycraft d20 and Dragonstar d20), I can wait.
Some people don't get it, huh?
I'm a d20 gamer by way of D&D 3e, so I already have my Player's Handbook.
T20 is obviously aimed at gamers (like me) who already possess the Player's Handbook (as I said, like me) which is a pretty large customer base. So if you guys want to jump into the d20 bandwagon, you might as well get the Player's Handbook.
Otherwise, you have other options ... GURP Traveller (I assume you need the GURP Basic Set rulebook), the Classic Traveller, Traveller: The New Era, Traveller 5th Edition, etc.
P.S. Don't worry about me. As long as I take my medicine and read my other purchases (Spycraft d20 and Dragonstar d20), I can wait.
RabidVargr
SOC-13
We get it!!! We're just saying it's OK to buy the book w/o the players handbook. There's many ways to get it working without using the 5 pages of rules you're missing from the players handbook. T20's aimed at those who want a easy and quickly learned system and also to evolve some DND gamers to the much better form of Traveller gamer. It'll most likely draw in a lot of gamers who didn't want to learn a whole new system to play the game, and if that was their only excuse to not play, well, they cant use it anymore. In this use, I think Hunter and the gang'll be quite succesful.
RV
You wear tighty whiteies, dontcha?
RV
You wear tighty whiteies, dontcha?
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
It will also be purchasable by those of us who are prone to buy anything with the Sunburst logo on it.
Some of us junkie though, it's in our nature to rail that the rates our pusher is charging before we knuckle down and ante up.
Some of us junkie though, it's in our nature to rail that the rates our pusher is charging before we knuckle down and ante up.
Simon Jester
SOC-12
Simon Jester :devil:
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
I was very loud on several topics about the subject. of D20 and T20 I even included a signature that declared my position on every post...(though I notice that signatures update to all posts so that's already been corrected. For those of you who missed it, it said "One game for the price of Two? Not friggin' likely! I'll wait for T5.")
Given all that, It behooves me to be just as public when I start masticating crow. so... here's a reprint of a post I put on another topic.
_______________________________
After my last D&D session I strongly suspect I will be eating some of my angrier words posted here earlier. My Referee in that game is the one who directed me to this site from his links to the Online D20 resources Here's some of the fallout.
1) Just as I didn't know that T20 wouldn't be coming out 'Complete' I also honestly (and not willfully, though maybe I wasn't listening hard enough to other people's posts
)didn't understand the difference between the Open Gaming License and the Standard Trademark License. Let's see if I have it right now.
OGL - is a open source code. You can accesss all of the code (EVERYTHING) online, it is identical to the PHB as far as my REF knows since he doesn't take his PHB to work but is able to find accurate PHB references on line at the OGL official site. You can even publish a game using this code (including EVERYTHING) but you CANNOT, if you publish such a game, Call it a D20 game or use the d20 Logo.
STL - is a deal between Games publishers. If you are Publishing a game and want to call it a D20 game using the D20 logo, THEN you have to leave out those critical approximately 5 pages. However, since the OGL above allows players access to the those missing pages no player is ever FORCED to buy an extra book even if they buy a Trademarked d20 supplement because THEY can then go to the OGL and get the info they need FREE.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding of the above. If I'm not wrong then -gulp- I guess I owe WotC an apology. I may be suspicious of them. I may worry excessively about their being poised to become the only game in town. But at this time and over this issue it's hardly fair to call them Chiselers. I have to NOW agree with earlier posts about d20 being more like Unix code then it is like MacroSuck Windows. That's what one get's when one posts on raw emotion -- a nice taste of one's own size tens.
2) I may, --sigh-- end up reversing myself on planned purchases. My D&D group is stable, we are all 30 somethings in stable careers, playing just often enough to have fun without negatively influencing our professional or home lives. And Dammit! It's a BLAST. (never thought I'd admit THAT about D&D ...ever).
So.. I may end up getting a PHB after all.
Given the fuss I kicked up less than 2 days ago... Boy do I feel SCHTUUUUPIIIID.
So... About WotC, I herebye retract any insulting terms I used previously (Chiselers, Nickel and Dime, Extortion, MicroSoft) and apologise for using them in regards to this issue.
I'm Sorry.
and I guess I may be buying T20 afterall... @set me=FLAKE?:yes
Thank you for your time and concern.
Given all that, It behooves me to be just as public when I start masticating crow. so... here's a reprint of a post I put on another topic.
_______________________________
After my last D&D session I strongly suspect I will be eating some of my angrier words posted here earlier. My Referee in that game is the one who directed me to this site from his links to the Online D20 resources Here's some of the fallout.
1) Just as I didn't know that T20 wouldn't be coming out 'Complete' I also honestly (and not willfully, though maybe I wasn't listening hard enough to other people's posts
OGL - is a open source code. You can accesss all of the code (EVERYTHING) online, it is identical to the PHB as far as my REF knows since he doesn't take his PHB to work but is able to find accurate PHB references on line at the OGL official site. You can even publish a game using this code (including EVERYTHING) but you CANNOT, if you publish such a game, Call it a D20 game or use the d20 Logo.
STL - is a deal between Games publishers. If you are Publishing a game and want to call it a D20 game using the D20 logo, THEN you have to leave out those critical approximately 5 pages. However, since the OGL above allows players access to the those missing pages no player is ever FORCED to buy an extra book even if they buy a Trademarked d20 supplement because THEY can then go to the OGL and get the info they need FREE.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding of the above. If I'm not wrong then -gulp- I guess I owe WotC an apology. I may be suspicious of them. I may worry excessively about their being poised to become the only game in town. But at this time and over this issue it's hardly fair to call them Chiselers. I have to NOW agree with earlier posts about d20 being more like Unix code then it is like MacroSuck Windows. That's what one get's when one posts on raw emotion -- a nice taste of one's own size tens.
2) I may, --sigh-- end up reversing myself on planned purchases. My D&D group is stable, we are all 30 somethings in stable careers, playing just often enough to have fun without negatively influencing our professional or home lives. And Dammit! It's a BLAST. (never thought I'd admit THAT about D&D ...ever).
So.. I may end up getting a PHB after all.
Given the fuss I kicked up less than 2 days ago... Boy do I feel SCHTUUUUPIIIID.
So... About WotC, I herebye retract any insulting terms I used previously (Chiselers, Nickel and Dime, Extortion, MicroSoft) and apologise for using them in regards to this issue.
I'm Sorry.
and I guess I may be buying T20 afterall... @set me=FLAKE?:yes
Thank you for your time and concern.
The real question is are we soing to get what we paid for, and paid for and paid again and again and again and again? How many supplements do each of you have for Traveller? Ever add up the total cost of our little hobby? I sent a few game designers kids through college just by myself.
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In the end, Murphy will rule
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In the end, Murphy will rule
