cost of t20

[Gallowglass]

Originally posted by Garf:
<snipped, simply because my posts have been getting too long and Garf's polite words remain above for all to see>

What I have consistently objected to, and at whom my anger is directed are The policy of 'you have to buy the PHB (or some facsimile thereof)' and WotC for having this policy.

WotC are the 'Chislers' IMO.

<snip>

I apologise also if I have at any point mis-represented what you have said, certainly was never my intention. Bottom line, I disagree with your opinion but hey, the world is full of differences, and my opinion has no more weight than anyone elses.

My problem is I don't understand peoples hostility to the "requires the D&D 3e Players Handbook". Pre-GURPS lite, if you wanted to use ANY GURPS sourcebook, you HAD to buy the GURPS Core rules (well, it was an awful lot easier anyway)... and no-one complained. In order to play a d20 STL compliant game such as T20, it includes a note to the effect that you will really find a life a lot easier with a copy of the D&D 3e PHB (well, the wording is "requires" but as shown elsewhere this isn't entirely true). And it is now apparently appalingly wrong? I don't see the reasoning, sorry. But what the heck, it doesn't really matter as we are all entitled to our own opinions and will play our games the way we seee fit, irrespective of what WotC, QLI or even MWM want (just don't ask about including Mecha in T20 please...)

(edited for sense and to qualify a couple of excessively sweeping statements... and my bl**dy awful typing )

 

[jalexandratos]

Originally posted by Falkayn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dree:
Let me put the kibosh on these ideas right now.

There is no Open Game Content in the PHB.

That means that no content from the PHB can be reprinted anywhere.

Keep in mind, that this not only encompasses the character advancement rules, it also covers skill and feat descriptions as well as the combat basics.

Can someone please explain to me how this is any different from having to buy the GURPS Rules and Compendium I in order to play G:T?

<sigh> ... Well, whilst the PHB is not OGL, the SRD (System Reference Document) contains 99.99% of the rules that are in the PHB, including the ones you'll need to play T20 (or any D20 system game). The SRD is 100% Open Game Content (OGC), and thus can be 100% reproduced by anyone who wants to use those rules under the Open Game License (OGL).

HOWEVER, if you are a publisher who wants to ca$h in on the D20 logo/marketing push of WOTC, then you are required to use the D20 System Trademark License, which also prevents you using those pats of the SRD that reference gaining character levels.[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Sorry, last time I checked the SRD (it's been a while), not all the sections were put up. But you're quite right, you can use the SRD as a PHB fill-in for regular play.

Regardless, even with the SRD, you are still missing the character creation/advancement rules. Check the FAQ, these are the components that aren't OGL.

 

[Nightshade]

Its pretty much useless to be mad at WOTC. They made a very shrewd buisness move in creating the d20 OGL.

You want to blame someone - blame all the companies that have decided to hitch their horses to the d20 wagon. They all just want to make a buck. And they want you to have fun playing their games or supplements so you'll buy more.
T20 is meant to appeal to all those d20 gamers out there. Hopefully it will get them interested in Traveller.

 

[Reginald]

Originally posted by Garf:

What I have consistently objected to, and at whom my anger is directed are The policy of 'you have to buy the PHB (or some facsimile thereof)' and WotC for having this policy.

And time and time again, I'm going to tell you, T20 is targeting the d20 audience, those already have the Player's Handbook ... like ME.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but it was QuikLink Interactive's business decision to target d20 audience.

You can rant all you want, but for us owners of the Player's Handbook, it's no friggin' biggie. If you want to play, then one suggest you acquire a PHB. I don't care how get it (steal from your friend, borrow from the library and don't return it), although it would help the game designers at Wizards to pay their bills and feed their family if you purchase one, you need it for the crucial rule information (character creation and character advancement) for playing a d20 game.

Who knows? You may just like to try the new edition of D&D, that is if you style yourself as a RPG hobbyist and not just a Traveller-only fan-something.

 

[Reginald]

Originally posted by Dree:

Sorry, last time I checked the SRD (it's been a while), not all the sections were put up. But you're quite right, you can use the SRD as a PHB fill-in for regular play.

Regardless, even with the SRD, you are still missing the character creation/advancement rules. Check the FAQ, these are the components that aren't OGL.

If you want to see the rest of the sections (monsters, spells, & psionics, albeit not yet approved by WotC), go to: www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html

(Mr. Ryan Dancey was contracted to draft OGC from Wizards' copyrighted material but their relationship was terminated before this summer.)

Of course, those sections (with the exception of the monsters and monster stat block) are not needed for use with T20.

 

[hunter]

Odds are I'll be releasing a PDF that contains the character creation and advancement rules under the OGL license. This is perfectly legal and acceptable under the terms of the OGL.

Most likely it will end up in a revised version of T20 Lite (without the d20 logo on it).

Hunter

 

[stormcrow]

Hunter, you are da' MAN!

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Hmmm.
1) So someone buying the PHB or other WotC core product is the ONLY renumeration WotC get's for a document produced with either the OGL or the STL. No double dipping. no extra fees?

2) AND There will be a legal 'lite' option that would allow me to avoid such a purchase if I decided to be a 'total' ass about this issue. (I figure I qualify for being at least half assed. I thank you Gallowglass for your patience and ... rationality even when seeing red.)

I'll be looking into what I need or don't need according to the links posted on the 'What do you need to play t20 topic' However since:

A) everytime I open my mouth on this topic I seem to pour gasoline on the flames and

B) I am seriously (after talking this out Face to face with my D&D Referee. -- I mentioned somewhere I'm sure that I -have- recently joined a D&D campaign...) considering making both purchases. Which makes my angry posts... less than intelligent, rational, adult, Classy... anything other than ... Half Assed.

I apologise.
Sorry for the Insults to WotC. The possibilty that I was attributing upon them the sins of every corporation from GW to Enron neither justifies nor excuses my blindness.

Sorry for setting things on fire. Not my intent. but well Flames and Good Intentions are not mutually exclusive.

This is the LAST post I intend to make on this topic. I was wrong about several critical details, I see no point on arguing on raw emotion and/or opinion or even holding to such emotions or opinions when rational arguement proves them wrong.

Even if I find some reason to revive my anger. I will not revive the topic. (though I'll still read what -you- have to say.)

 

[Tanuki]

Originally posted by hunter:
Odds are I'll be releasing a PDF that contains the character creation and advancement rules under the OGL license. This is perfectly legal and acceptable under the terms of the OGL.

Most likely it will end up in a revised version of T20 Lite (without the d20 logo on it).

Yes! Bless you, oh mighty Hunter.

 

[Nightshade]

All the peeps in my gaming group already own the PHB. We've played other d20 conversions too: Call of Cthulhu, Stars Wars, and Spycraft.