Costs of variant grav vehicles?

[rancke]

According to The Traveller Book, a TL8 air/raft costs Cr600,000 -- 150 times more than a generic ground car. But the description of that standard air/raft makes it capable of carrying four people and four tons (weight presumably, since the entire vehicle is only 4dT) of cargo at a speed of 100 kph. It can reach orbit (if the people in it is wearing vacc suits) and it only needs refuelling every ten weeks.

So what would less capable grav vehicles cost? What would something like the equivalent of a family car cost?


Hans

 

[far-trader]

The simplest answer/method is comparative pricing.

IF 1980 Military Humvee (K$140) = TL8 Air/Raft (Kcr600)

AND 1980 Civilian Ground Car (K$7) = TL8 Grav Car (...then Kcr30 is your price for the Grav Car)

For a Grav Car to carry 6 cramped people in normal clothes in an enclosed (but not sealed) environment with limited cargo. Size will be rated 1ton. Range/operational duration will be hundreds of kilometers at speeds comparable to an Air/Raft (100kph) but altitude operation will be restricted due to lack of advanced instrumentation and sensors. The Grav Car may even be further restricted in operation by local laws.

 

[HG_B]

So what would less capable grav vehicles cost? What would something like the equivalent of a family car cost?


Hans

What are the design rules to make a "less capable grav vehicle"? Which version of the game?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Produce a spec and we can design it for each edition.

 

[HG_B]

Produce a spec and we can design it for each edition.

I'd like to see a spec myself. Haven't seen one more minimal than an air/raft. Specs have to conform to design rules. IE: One can't say to make one that isn't gold plated like the air/raft, when an air/raft isn't listed as gold plated in the rules.

 

[far-trader]

I'd like to see a spec myself. Haven't seen one more minimal than an air/raft. Specs have to conform to design rules. IE: One can't say to make one that isn't gold plated like the air/raft, when an air/raft isn't listed as gold plated in the rules.

No one is saying it's gold plated. Unless you are.

So what's your rationale for it costing KCr600? It can hardly be a "minimalist" grav vehicle at that price.

 

[HG_B]

No one is saying it's gold plated. Unless you are.

So what's your rationale for it costing KCr600?

I don't 'rationalize' someone else's rules. ALL indications are that the rules don't match the description and there is NO logical reason in the rules. Therefore, the conclusion is that whoever wrote the rules blew it or was illogical.

So, looking at the MT description, I see NOTHING to indicate above average components. Per the MT design rules, 600k is a LOW cost grav vehicle. Much like a '46 Willy's jeep....

 

[Dragoner]

Bk 4 pg 43, TL 8 Air/Raft is 60,000cr (corrected) and -5 to -15% cheaper per TL after 8. So going with a median of -10% at TL15 it is (-70%) 18,000cr. All per CT.

 

[HG_B]

Bk 4 pg 43, TL 8 Air/Raft is 60,000cr (corrected) and -5 to -15% cheaper per TL after 8. So going with a median of -10% at TL15 it is (-70%) 18,000cr. All per CT.

Looks like Marc changed his mind for MT... Also, Book 4 is Merc. Don't recall this in that book.

 

[Dragoner]

Looks like Marc changed his mind for MT... Also, Book 4 is Merc. Don't recall this in that book.

Yes, Book 4 is Mercenary. These are the rules for CT, I can't say what Marc wanted for MT.

 

[far-trader]

... Per the MT design rules, 600k is a LOW cost grav vehicle. Much like a '46 Willy's jeep....

So, you figure the average salary in Traveller is some Cr940,000 annually? That's what you're saying by your comparison. About Cr78,000 monthly....

...suddenly that Pilot job for Cr6,000 a month isn't very appealing at all even with room and board included.

 

[HG_B]

So, you figure the average salary in Traveller is some Cr940,000 annually?

Don't ask me. Ask the game designer what he was thinking when he wrote it.

Like I CORRECTLY stated, per the MT design rules, the Air/raft is a LOW end grav vehicle.

 

[far-trader]

Bk 4 pg 43, TL 8 Air/Raft is 60,000cr (corrected) and -5 to -15% cheaper per TL after 8. So going with a median of -10% at TL15 it is (-70%) 18,000cr. All per CT.

I've long been confused by this actually. If I recall correctly that fix was intended for the 1st printing of LBB1-3 (where an Air/Raft was presumably listed at Cr6,000,000) and the prices were corrected in the subsequent printings (where the Air/Raft is a platry Cr600,000).

I would love for the corrections to apply to the listed prices in later printings (and have the Air/Raft listed at Cr60,000)

 

[rancke]

Yes, Book 4 is Mercenary. These are the rules for CT, I can't say what Marc wanted for MT.

He went back to the original figures for CT. The Traveller Book is copyright 1982.

For MGT the cost is Cr275,000. I haven't checked T4 and T20 yet.


Hans

 

[HG_B]

Yes, Book 4 is Mercenary. These are the rules for CT, I can't say what Marc wanted for MT.

Thanks, found the paragraph. In CT he lowed the prices to logical levels. In MT he raised them again to make grav vehicles EXTREMELY rare, even on high tech worlds.

 

[rancke]

I've long been confused by this actually. If I recall correctly that fix was intended for the 1st printing of LBB1-3 (where an Air/Raft was presumably listed at Cr6,000,000) and the prices were corrected in the subsequent printings (where the Air/Raft is a platry Cr600,000).

You're right. The original cost was Cr6,000,000. So the fix in Book 4 simply brought the cost down to the Cr600,000 that we also see in TTB.

I would love for the corrections to apply to the listed prices in later printings (and have the Air/Raft listed at Cr60,000)

Cr60,000 for a vehicle capable of reaching orbit?!? Surely you jest, Sir!


Hans

 

[rancke]

If we start with a cost of Cr600,000 for a TL8 Air/Raft and apply a 10% reduction in price per TL above, we get a cost of Cr287,000 for a TL15 Air/Raft, pretty close to the Cr275,000 figure of MT and MGT.


Hans

 

[Dragoner]

I looked and see it was correcting the 1977 Bk 3 prices (gotta love the CT disk), however, my 1981 bk 3 (pg 22) says grav vehicles become dominant at TL10+ and other types of vehicles are rarely seen. Though cr 600,000 -70% is still 180,000cr, unless you want to take the -15% per TL and by TL15 they pay you to take an Air/Raft...(-105%) :devil:

Those are the rules.

 

[far-trader]

Cr60,000 for a vehicle capable of reaching orbit?!? Surely you jest, Sir!

Well yes, just a little, but then I think you know my contrary stance on the orbital capability aspect of gravitics

 

[rancke]

The 1st edition Book 3 description of the Air/Raft (on p. 17) has some interesting details that I haven't seen elsewhere. Note that the text quoted below has had all the costs mentioned reduced by one order of magnitude.

"Air/Raft (8) CR 600,000. Also known as a flier, the air/raft relies on solid state null gravity modules for lift and propulsion. Four independent, individually replacable modules (CR 100,000 each) insure [sic] a maximum of safety. Loss of one module reduces lift by one-quarter. The standard air/raft weighs 4 tons and can carry a payload of up to 4 tons including pilot and passengers. Cruise speed is 100 km per hour with unlimited range and endurance. Normally, air/rafts are open topped; the referee may allow a pressurized one or such options as gun mounts, searchlights, crash cushions or larger capacities at higher prices.​

One extremely interesting question: Is the capacity of the null gravity module a minimum or could one build smaller ones for less money? If so, is the smaller versions proportionate in costs, or is the some sort of loss of efficiency for smaller units?


Hans