CT Azhanti Deck Plan Accuracy

[far-trader]

From page 3 of this thread (on bridge size in CT):

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=14861

I was curious if the deckplans for the AHL as presented in the game and (special) Supplement 5 were accurate. So I did a quick approximate square count per the deck list below. As you can see it comes up short, far short. I'm not sure where the shortage is. One possibility might be the Boat Deck. Rather than a single deck it seems like it should be 17 decks to accommodate the fuel shuttle (and other boats). Or maybe other decks are higher than the standard 3m and I missed it in the text (yep, some, many it seems, of the decks are 4.5m high with the extra 1.5m being fuel buffers to mitigate combat damage spread).

Comments and corrections appreciated.

Decks and approx tons:

0 - Lounge Dome - 180tons
1 - Lounge Deck - 80tons
2 - Avionics Deck - 80tons
3 - Avionics Deck - 80tons
4 - Avionics Deck - 80tons
5 - Cartography Deck - 80tons
6 - Avionics Deck - 80tons
7 - Avionics Deck - 80tons
8 - Cartography Deck - 80tons
9 - Avionics Deck - 80tons
10 to 13 - Fuel Decks - 1580tons (395tons each x4)
14 - Gunnery Deck - 395tons
15 - Crew Quarters - 395tons
16 - Crew Quarters - 395tons
17 - Running Bridge - 395tons
18 - Crew Quarters - 395tons
19 - Crew Quarters - 395tons
20 - Cargo Deck - 395tons
21 - Cargo Deck - 395tons
22 to 24 - Fuel Deck - 1185tons (395tons each x3)
25 - Gunnery Deck - 395tons
26 to 34 - Fuel Deck - 3555tons (395tons each x9)
35 - Gunnery Deck - 395tons
36 - Crew Quarters (Troops) - 395tons
37 - Crew Quarters (Troops) - 395tons
38 - Crew Quarters (Troops) - 395tons
39 - Crew Quarters - 395tons
40 - Auxiliary Bridge - 395tons (?)
41 - Upper Power Plant - 385tons
42 - Upper Power Plant - 385tons
43 - Upper Power Plant - 385tons
44 - Upper Power Plant - 385tons
45 - Upper Power Plant - 385tons
46 - Lower Power Plant - 385tons
47 - Gunnery Deck - 395tons
48 to 56 - Fuel Deck - 3555tons (395tons each x9)
57 - Gunnery Deck - 395tons
58 to 65 - Fuel Deck - 3160tons (395tons each x8)
66 - Main Weapon Deck - 395tons
67 - Main Weapon Deck - 395tons
68 - Flight Crew Quarters - 395tons
69 - Hangar Deck - 2370tons (395tons x6 decks high)
70 - Gunnery Deck - 395tons
71 - Hangar Deck - 2370tons (395tons x6 decks high)
72 - Flight Crew Quarters - 395tons
73 - Jump Drive Deck - 395tons
74 - Jump Drive Deck - 395tons
75 - Jump Drive Deck - 395tons
76 - Jump Drive Deck - 395tons
77 - Jump Drive Deck - 395tons
78 - Jump Drive Deck - 395tons
79 - Jump Drive Deck - 395tons
80 - Jump Drive Deck - 395tons
81 - Jump Drive Deck - 395tons
82 - Jump Drive Deck - 395tons
83 - Jump Drive Deck - 395tons
84 - Boat Dock Deck - 385tons

Missing Fuel Decks - 18,965tons (395tons x48 decks high) (1)

Missing Maneuver Drives - 3,000tons (2)

Fuel Shuttles (external) - 1600tons (400tons x4)

Total tons - 57,970tons (getting there, closer yet... )

(1) Which, if we take the listed length of 405m, could be about right. What I mean is the 84 decks is short of 405m by 51 decks. Coincidence that the missing fuel decks comes close? Probably but I'm a cynic. Or maybe not, since some of the decks are 4.5m high apparently using the extra 1.5m as a fuel buffer to contain damage.

(2) Presumably in the wings. Had the lack of Maneuver Drives on the official deckplans pointed out to me by Ndege Diamond over on the deckplans mailing list.

 

[far-trader]

Oh, and the above is a simple total tonnage count, I've not bothered to look and see if the fuel adds up, or the quarters are the proper percentage or any of that.

 

[PFVA63]

A Cross Check

Hi,

I took the small scans on the CT CD from Far Future Enterprises and imported them into a CAD program as a cross check of your numbers. In doing this I scaled the scans based on the grid provided and then traced out an outline of the internal areas per deck plan. I also added an allowance for the dome at the front assuming it was a hemisphere 10.5m in radius. Since I was using the internal areas, I also added in an allowance for armor volume, which based on the stats for the ship and the Book 5 Rules appears to be about 3600dt.

Also, in the Azhanti High Lightning write up, where it notes that the hangar decks are oversized it states that;

"Each hangar deck was oversize, measuring eighteen (rather than 4.5) meters in height, and each yielded a single cargo deck with four times the standard capacity."

As such, I have assumed that the normal deck heights are 4.5m in height and overall my numbers come out a little higher than your did with the internal volume of the main hull being on the order of 618,400 cubic meters or about 44,300 to 45,800 dt (depending on if you assume 1 dt equals 13.5 or 14 cubic meters).

I still have to add on the dorsal and side fins, though.

Regards

PF

 

[far-trader]

"Each hangar deck was oversize, measuring eighteen (rather than 4.5) meters in height, and each yielded a single cargo deck with four times the standard capacity."

Oh yeah, there it is, I thought I recalled something about over tall decks. Could be that's where the missing fuel is, there was something about fuel being mixed into the decks to serve as buffers or something. That could work.

Thanks for the check and any followup

Yeah, I didn't count the fin or wings yet either. Hard to estimate without doing a full model.

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

Hi,

Yeah, I wasn't sure how to estimate them either. A couple other oddities I noted as I was just looking through the booklet;

• In the description of the fuel deck they note it contains two 200dt fuel tanks. Looking quickly at the scan of that deck suggests that if you assume 4.5m deck heights and that the fuel tanks occupy all the 4.5m height, then the Starboard side tank comes close to 200dt (if you assume 13.5cubic m / dt). I didn't check the other side yet but it looks very similar in size
• In the back of the book on refueling it talks about the ship as having 43 fuel decks, but the list of decks only appears to show 33 (unless I misunderstood something). Overall though 33 x 400dt only adds up to 13200dt and 43 x 400dt only adds up to 17200dt, which still isn't enough fuel though.

Anyway, thanks for posting the stuff you did. Its very interesting.

Regards

PF

PS.

Here's a summary of my previous calcs.

 

[Supplement Four]

56,400 tons is within the acceptable +/- 10% rule.

IIRC, the AHL is rated as a 60,000 ton vessel, right?

 

[far-trader]

IIRC, the AHL is rated as a 60,000 ton vessel, right?

Correct, and yep, within the +/-10% for deckplans would be fine by me, but this is just a gross tonnage assessment. As it turns out to be close I may dig deeper and see how the elements add up. That would be the real test

 

[far-trader]

56,400 tons is within the acceptable +/- 10% rule.

Actually I think you misread that though, the 56,400 (if from PFVA63's spreadsheet) is actually 564,000 m2 not tons. Though my rough total is close at nearly 54,800tons and is probably a little low due to rough square counting and rounding. Still within the +/-10% too

 

[far-trader]

Just a quick update, another 3000tons has been found thanks to Ndege Diamond over on the deckplans mailing list...

The maneuver drives!

D'oh!

That runs the total up to 57,790tons (or more). So very close, close enough I suspect a better measurement would fill the rest.

Apparently that's what's in (part of at least) the wings. Just need to fudge some access points into the canon deckplans and add that.

 

[far-trader]

In the back of the book on refueling it talks about the ship as having 43 fuel decks, but the list of decks only appears to show 33 (unless I misunderstood something).

Sounds like a simple typo, but as you say, it still doesn't add up

Anyway, thanks for posting the stuff you did. Its very interesting.

Thank you, for that and the calculations you ran, much appreciated. Hey, as long as one other soul finds it interesting* I can continue in my delusion that I'm not just wasting my time

* or even humours me, either way I'm happy

 

[far-trader]

Freshly updated for you review, and off to bed for me to dream perchance of accurate deckplans. Happily this seems to be one

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I may have to build one now...

 

[far-trader]

Excellent! :smirk:

I hope this means you're feeling better. I'd love to meddl.. er, help with it

No real artistic talent but I'm feeling like taking a stab at modelling it in Sketch Up to work on the deckplans. Of course I'm at times glacially slow on such projects due to my picky nature.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Yeah, I think the patient will live

If you can turn the plans into rough 3d models that would save me some work (I'll see your slow and raise you a lazy...)

 

[far-trader]

Yeah, I think the patient will live

Good news, on a Monday!

If you can turn the plans into rough 3d models that would save me some work (I'll see your slow and raise you a lazy...)

Pretty sure I can do that, I'll keep you posted. (and let's see, I'll call your lazy and raise you a lifetime of procrastination... :smirk

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

Hey, as long as one other soul finds it interesting* I can continue in my delusion that I'm not just wasting my time

* or even humours me, either way I'm happy

Hi,

I actually enjoy this kind of stuff alot. It got me looking through the deck plans of the Azhanti High Lightning again, and I actually noticed some stuff on how they laid out there bay weapons that I had missed before.

With respect to the AHL, I did start trying to add up the spaces to see how close the actual spaces match for all the different categories (like accommodations, weapons, and drives, etc), but from my initial calcs the numbers appear to be pretty far off from what I believe they should be from the Book 5 rules.

With respect to the Tigress, it would be a very interesting to see some deck plans for it, but becasue of its shape and configuration, it would seem that it would be much more difficult than a ship like the AHL, where alot of decks could be duplicated over and over.

Anyway, best of luck if anyone does really try and do it.

Regards

PF

 

[Andrew Boulton]

GT:Starships has a cutaway plan of a Tigress.

 

[Theophilus]

You are aware that there is a group that uses scale models for starship combat and that a 1.5-2 meter model of the AHL exists.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

That I gotta see!

 

[far-trader]

Me too! Link please if you can, or some pics Theophilus

Actually I'm debating springing for the Ad Astra minis to get the AHL and base decisions on that. I'm wondering too if the artist for it would be inclined to share the 3D modeling for it if you asked nicely Andrew

I've almost got the overall tonnage worked out and agreeing with the deckplans and measurements. As noted the internal components don't look to add up too well though.

More later...