CT Azhanti Deck Plan Accuracy
- Thread starter far-trader
- Start date
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Heh, I've been trying to justify and find the coin since they were announced 
Part of the problem is I've got 40 some ship minis already sitting around in various unfinished stages of painting and adding to that task when I don't have a proper place to work on them is a bit depressing.
btw, check your PM's if you haven't...
EDIT - OK, it should be there now, had an Internal Server Error on the first try and then a Database Error on the second. Tried to edit this post at that time and the forums were waaaay slow too and the edit disappeared into J-space.
Part of the problem is I've got 40 some ship minis already sitting around in various unfinished stages of painting and adding to that task when I don't have a proper place to work on them is a bit depressing.btw, check your PM's
if you haven't...EDIT - OK, it should be there now, had an Internal Server Error on the first try and then a Database Error on the second. Tried to edit this post at that time and the forums were waaaay slow too and the edit disappeared into J-space.
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jfetters
SOC-14 1K
Yeah, I was wondering what was going on there... I couldn't connect to the site for an hour or two.
Anyway, check your PM (and non-CotI PM
). I'm basically in the same boat WRT the dozens of unpainted minis. But I've actually started to organize a workspace! Can you beleive it? My next step is to break the time dimension to carve out 2 extra hours a day to work on them.
Anyway, check your PM (and non-CotI PM
). I'm basically in the same boat WRT the dozens of unpainted minis. But I've actually started to organize a workspace! Can you beleive it? My next step is to break the time dimension to carve out 2 extra hours a day to work on them. I'm basically in the same boat WRT the dozens of unpainted minis. But I've actually started to organize a workspace! Can you beleive it? My next step is to break the time dimension to carve out 2 extra hours a day to work on them.
If you manage that don't keep it a secret, we're all in the same boat there I suspect.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Just a quick update, and much thanks again to all the help being provided so far on working this out.
Some notes of interest mostly.
The deckplans look to add up to the right ballpark for the ship, once I add the wings and fin. That's the good news, and a bit surprising (though it shouldn't be, as in it should be easy to calculate volumes of simple shapes).
Unfortunately (and far less surprising) the actual breakdown by components of the deckplans do not seem to come anywhere close to being accurate. Oh well. I had hoped to not have to radically redo anything, it takes me forever.
That's because I try to be as... what's the word? Sensitive? (close, close enough) ...sensitive to the originals and canon when I do make my "corrections" and that can be a tricky dance.
For example, one of the things that threw me off originally was forgetting that the deck height was 4.5m instead of the standard 3.0m. Why? I haven't a clue. But the canon 84 decks at 4.5m (but counting the two hanger decks at the listed 18.0m instead) does add up to the canon 405m length.
However, that messes up the domed lounge on the nose since it's much higher than 4.5m. Not to mention that every deck being 1.5m higher than normal is just bizarre. What's up? Were the crew of all AHL class ship's giants who needed the extra head room? Was it some weird mixup in the schematics due to a unit conversion error between the architect and the shipyard? I'd really like to know the original reason, in game and/or reality. I've done my best at reconciling it below.
What I've done is taken the canon statement about fuel buffers a step further and used the extra 1.5m per deck (well, most of the decks anyway) as an additional fuel buffer between just about every deck (maybe that was the original intent). Makes for a nice damage control feature imo (with the addition of suitable blast doors of course). My current deck layout will follow, but it is probably going to change a little once I work out just where the bay weapons line up from the miniature (which matches the canon art pretty well). Maybe they're in the right place and maybe not. I hope to keep things more or less as they have been with respect to deck order. And the overall length does still come out to the correct 405m (if I added correctly). So that much at least is working (I hope).
What's not working so well is the actual ship build/rebuild. Reverse engineering the design it looks like there's a lot more features than there is tonnage, among several errors (small and not so small).
And of course, like almost every canon design I've checked over the years (and I'm sure I've done the AHL at least twice before and wish now I had those other reworking attempts) I can't even get close to the crewing listed using the rules (among other issues). At least not as I read them. Of course the AHL (and others) is not just a B5 design (or any single rule set in some cases).
Instead it's a blend/mismash of 1st and 2nd edition B5. In one place the bay weapons are 10ton versions (a 1st ed only feature) and in another they are 50ton versions (a 1st and 2nd ed feature). So which is it? A 1st ed design? A 2nd ed design? A mutant that started as a 1st ed design, then got fudged into 2nd ed (probably with an early draft of the rules)? Or something else entirely? I suppose I could hunt down my 1st ed and see if doing it that way makes a difference. Purely as an exercise in research though, as it should be a proper 2nd ed design, or it should be junked (and should have been junked long ago if it can't be built under 2nd ed).
Yeah, yeah. "But there could be more than one way of building ships." The standard excuse used (by myself as well) to rationalize broken designs. It gets old eventually, trust me.
These are a few of the questions running in my head as I try to work out if the design can even be done as written before I invest time in the modeling and deckplans.
As Ndege Diamond remarked on the deckplans group...
Ah well, back to the drawing board... such "fun" :smirk:
* I say almost only because there may have been an exception, but at the moment I can't recall it, and suspect it's just wishful thinking on my part that hopes there was at least one time the rules were actually used and not fudged or screwed up to produce a design that made it into canon.
Some notes of interest mostly.
The deckplans look to add up to the right ballpark for the ship, once I add the wings and fin. That's the good news, and a bit surprising (though it shouldn't be, as in it should be easy to calculate volumes of simple shapes).
Unfortunately (and far less surprising) the actual breakdown by components of the deckplans do not seem to come anywhere close to being accurate. Oh well. I had hoped to not have to radically redo anything, it takes me forever.
That's because I try to be as... what's the word? Sensitive? (close, close enough) ...sensitive to the originals and canon when I do make my "corrections" and that can be a tricky dance.
For example, one of the things that threw me off originally was forgetting that the deck height was 4.5m instead of the standard 3.0m. Why? I haven't a clue. But the canon 84 decks at 4.5m (but counting the two hanger decks at the listed 18.0m instead) does add up to the canon 405m length.
However, that messes up the domed lounge on the nose since it's much higher than 4.5m. Not to mention that every deck being 1.5m higher than normal is just bizarre. What's up? Were the crew of all AHL class ship's giants who needed the extra head room? Was it some weird mixup in the schematics due to a unit conversion error between the architect and the shipyard? I'd really like to know the original reason, in game and/or reality. I've done my best at reconciling it below.
What I've done is taken the canon statement about fuel buffers a step further and used the extra 1.5m per deck (well, most of the decks anyway) as an additional fuel buffer between just about every deck (maybe that was the original intent). Makes for a nice damage control feature imo (with the addition of suitable blast doors of course). My current deck layout will follow, but it is probably going to change a little once I work out just where the bay weapons line up from the miniature (which matches the canon art pretty well). Maybe they're in the right place and maybe not. I hope to keep things more or less as they have been with respect to deck order. And the overall length does still come out to the correct 405m (if I added correctly). So that much at least is working (I hope).
What's not working so well is the actual ship build/rebuild. Reverse engineering the design it looks like there's a lot more features than there is tonnage, among several errors (small and not so small).
And of course, like almost every canon design I've checked over the years (and I'm sure I've done the AHL at least twice before and wish now I had those other reworking attempts) I can't even get close to the crewing listed using the rules (among other issues). At least not as I read them. Of course the AHL (and others) is not just a B5 design (or any single rule set in some cases).
Instead it's a blend/mismash of 1st and 2nd edition B5. In one place the bay weapons are 10ton versions (a 1st ed only feature) and in another they are 50ton versions (a 1st and 2nd ed feature). So which is it? A 1st ed design? A 2nd ed design? A mutant that started as a 1st ed design, then got fudged into 2nd ed (probably with an early draft of the rules)? Or something else entirely? I suppose I could hunt down my 1st ed and see if doing it that way makes a difference. Purely as an exercise in research though, as it should be a proper 2nd ed design, or it should be junked (and should have been junked long ago if it can't be built under 2nd ed).
Yeah, yeah. "But there could be more than one way of building ships." The standard excuse used (by myself as well) to rationalize broken designs. It gets old eventually, trust me.
These are a few of the questions running in my head as I try to work out if the design can even be done as written before I invest time in the modeling and deckplans.
As Ndege Diamond remarked on the deckplans group...
Right. Quirkiness that about drives me around the bend almost* every freaking time I try to figure out a canon deckplan or design :nonono:It's all part of the quirkiness that is Traveller
Ah well, back to the drawing board... such "fun" :smirk:
* I say almost only because there may have been an exception, but at the moment I can't recall it, and suspect it's just wishful thinking on my part that hopes there was at least one time the rules were actually used and not fudged or screwed up to produce a design that made it into canon.
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far-trader
SOC-14 10K
EDIT - Note, as anticipated this post below is no longer valid, I had no idea it'd be so far out but circumstances dictated a major rework. I've put the post in a spoiler hide to clean up the thread, it's still there if you want to see but easier to just ignore. A corrected deck arrangement will follow later.
Spoiler:
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far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Remember this above...
Well, I finally had some time to play with the shape based on the Ad Astra mini and... gotta scrap my deck division scheme (just above this post), the neck is too short without using the 4.5m deck height. So a little more drawing board work on that bit, but I've got it scaled now so I can chip away at that.
I think I have this bit beaten into shape with only a tiny little "cheat" to make it work. More later, want to make sure I haven't forgotten something...
I did check my HG 1st ed and it could explain some of the design "issues" and led to the "cheat" mentioned for a fix. I think I managed to maintain the spirit and letter of the design requirements with my fixes.
That's all for the moment, got sidetracked (naturally) by the Rampart fighter design as part and parcel to the AHL. Almost got that kicked into shape too with the help of some quick helpful replies, kudos to all.
Later...
Well, I finally had some time to play with the shape based on the Ad Astra mini and... gotta scrap my deck division scheme (just above this post), the neck is too short without using the 4.5m deck height. So a little more drawing board work on that bit, but I've got it scaled now so I can chip away at that.
I think I have this bit beaten into shape with only a tiny little "cheat" to make it work. More later, want to make sure I haven't forgotten something...
I did check my HG 1st ed and it could explain some of the design "issues" and led to the "cheat" mentioned for a fix. I think I managed to maintain the spirit and letter of the design requirements with my fixes.
That's all for the moment, got sidetracked (naturally) by the Rampart fighter design as part and parcel to the AHL. Almost got that kicked into shape too with the help of some quick helpful replies, kudos to all.
Later...
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Time for a break in the padded room...
Just ignore the spoiler (rant) bit of this post if you're looking for a happy update...
Yeah, I missed a little item, so even with my mild cheat fixes for the broken bits I find it is again over tonnage, to the tune of 660 tons for the fuel purifiers.
The simple solution, the only real option I see, is to make the fuel shuttles with onboard purifiers and screw the AHL if it loses them. I mean if circumstances are so dire that the AHL does it's own fuel dive then the minor risk incurred in using unrefined fuel isn't going to bother the Captain right :smirk:
...I think I can retain my sanity and continue to play with this project if I go that way. Have to redesign the fuel shuttles a bit and they may have less fuel capacity but that's life. It's not like I expected them to be correct either anyway :smirk:
Just ignore the spoiler (rant) bit of this post if you're looking for a happy update...
Spoiler:
Yeah, I missed a little item, so even with my mild cheat fixes for the broken bits I find it is again over tonnage, to the tune of 660 tons for the fuel purifiers.
The simple solution, the only real option I see, is to make the fuel shuttles with onboard purifiers and screw the AHL if it loses them. I mean if circumstances are so dire that the AHL does it's own fuel dive then the minor risk incurred in using unrefined fuel isn't going to bother the Captain right :smirk:
...I think I can retain my sanity and continue to play with this project if I go that way. Have to redesign the fuel shuttles a bit and they may have less fuel capacity but that's life. It's not like I expected them to be correct either anyway :smirk:
jfetters
SOC-14 1K
(Most of post deleted
)Don't forget 10% difference is considered acceptable. Have you factored that yet?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
(Most of post deleted
Don't forget 10% difference is considered acceptable. Have you factored that yet?
Aww, now I'm all curious about what you deleted. Suggestions to seek professional psychiatric help figured prominently I'm sure I'll be happy to allow (and be lucky to get away with) a 10% slop in the deckplans. Well, actually, the canon dimensions and form do look to be quite close as I've mentioned.
All I'm talking about at this point is the bleeding numbers in the HG 2nd ed design rules. Putting all the crap supposedly contained within 60Kt at TL 14 is impossible. It's about 5000tons over. In HG 1st ed it's a little closer, maybe even close enough (and it's where I took the cue for the way I'm cheating to fix some of it).
There is no + or - 10% slop allowed in the design rules, just for deckplans, which I find quite acceptable.
However on that note, how about those Ramparts carried aboard? They are supposed to be 15 dtons (another draftee of HG 1st ed I'm sure where fighters are to be considered 15 mass tons and require 20 tons of hanger) but the deckplans show what? Maybe 5 dtons. Way wrong the other way. A clear case of "make it look cool, like I dunno an F-16" rather than "show me something close to 15 dtons and cool, you can be anywhere in a 13.5 to 16.5 dton range and we'll accept it and pay you" as should have been the case.
Of course I've had a long standing suspicion, backed up in several places, that would have easily fixed the whole deckplan vs dton idiocy. And it's so simple. There are no dtons in the design rules. It's all mass tons. So a 15 mass ton fighter could very well look just like the drawing with something less than 5 dtons.
But that'd be too easy...
...besides it still wouldn't fix all the designs that are simply broken because somebody did the math poorly or forgot to add the tonnage for an item or ten when building it with the rules.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
And that would be an MT design of the broken CT design, probably itself broken :smirk:
I wonder how the deckplans compare to the ones in S5? I can dig up the link to the ones offered by Marc if you wouldn't mind doing a quick comparison?
I'm just a wee bit cynical of canon designs, with several good reasons and examples.
I swear, the Imperial Fleet doesn't fly on Fusion but on the rapid handwaving of all the Naval Personnel :rofl:
It sounds like the story of the refueling issues for the AHL in CT if the fuel shuttles are lost being corrected. In CT the AHL is partially streamlined, which should mean it can gas giant skim with no issues, but for some reason (cool story plot I suppose) there's a whole section on the dangers and choices to be made if the AHL should choose to skim it's own fuel rather than rely on the shuttles.
I also saw an AHL design (fan not canon) of MT form listed at 65Kt which is another way to go to fix it I suppose.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Perhaps it uses two 2500dt drop tanks?
<ducks to avoid thrown objects>
-Fox
<two 2500dt empty fuel tanks crash down, one to either side of the ducking Foxroe>
I did consider drop tanks and a J4 limit when carrying or without them, but that seemed like too obvious an item, if you know what I mean. Not a bad idea, and I had a few until I found one I liked pretty well. I'll probably be able to post up the "fixed" design tonight for some proof-reading and feedback while I work on the model and deckplans.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
It's the same plans you have, of course in electronic form you may find new use for them, very nicely scanned.
They're in the free Files section (oddly in the Misc section rather than the Deckplans section)
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=13155
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
The Arrival Vengeance plans are the same (but prettier).
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Azhanti (corrected) design rev1
OK, have a look if interested, find and report any silly typo or addition errors, point out anything I missed, or just comment on the choices made.
Design footnotes and crew details follow the design rundown.
(0) this is the biggest (one of two) canon break and the simplest fix, up the tonnage, I’m hoping the model won’t look too bloated for it
(1) located in the wings and does not require routine maintenance (according to the description), maybe that’s how they get by with less crew than required, personally I think they just didn’t have room for the extra (wider) deck plans in the package so skipped it and made up the story about no maintenance to cover it, expect me to add those decks, and the connection to them, and ignore the no maintenance required, I’ve also got power for agility 1 in the redesign
(2) the second biggest canon break and another simple fix (even adding 10Kt to the design still wasn’t enough), cutting the size of the power plant in half (ie TL15 size) helps a lot, and fits with the HG first edition rules (all power plants were 0.01MPn and TL12 was the highest needed), so the story for it is that it is a cutting edge TL14 power plant, half the size of the standard for the same power (ie TL15 size), but requiring more maintenance so the crew is calculated at double (ie TL14 size)
(3) the text describes three bridges (main, auxiliary, and casual) as well as a triple redundant computer installation, so that’s what I went with, three bridges and three computers
(4) the later swapped in meson gun is not a perfect fit, it’s smaller (2000 tons) and needs more energy (1000 EP), but there is power to spare as noted and the extra room is not a problem (except for what some creative crew might do with it)
(5) so little tonnage I’d be tempted to have some backups, if there were any room, and I’d make the later retrofitted BG generator a replacement for the Nuclear Damper, so it’d be a 10 ton F1 instead of the 15 ton F2 to make more sense to me, the text describes the BG fitted models to have retained the meson screen but makes no mention of the ND which supports my choice as well
(6) per the listing of 60 fighters and some gunboats, though it says the gunboats are 40 tons in one place and 20 tons in another it has to be 20 ton gunboats (see the Launch Tube note), the 80 fighters listed in the S9 design would have to be 10 ton fighters (perhaps Rampart II or III models), what I decided to do was work with the HG first edition of 15 tons per fighter plus 5 tons maintenance area per fighter (for 20 tons per fighter) and then of course apply the HG second edition of x1.3 per craft for the hanger, so the hangers can actually accommodate 20 ton craft (like the gunboats, but without maintenance access) but are designed for the 15 ton fighters (with maintenance access and repair allowed in the hanger, equal to a small starport yard for them)
(7) so two launch tubes for craft up to 20 tons is what fits best
(8) all said and done (as much as I can stand it anyway) I was still 1 ton over, so I just picked on the cargo hold to take it from
All (S)Crewed Up:
I had typed up a bit of a long rambling rant on the crewing rules and errors, but it was boring even me before I finished, so I wiped it. Instead I’ll just say it looks like the canon crewing for the AHL forgot to include the Screens crew, the non-Pilot flight crew, screwed up the Pilot flight crew numbers, and took the Troops from the general Services pool.
EDIT - Should have included a note in case the rank shorthand isn't clear. Where you see "(O#-#)" that is Officer HG Rank - CT Rank. Where you see "(E#)" that is Enlisted HG Rank.
The easiest way to make it work and fit the rules was to stick to the canon 620 (per S5) crew total (though not the O/E ratio) and fudge the breakdown, as follows:
Running Crew - 620 Total (105x Officer ranks and 515x Enlisted ranks)
Command Crew - 30
Composed of the Captain(O7-6), Executive Officer(O6-5), 3x Section Officers(O5-4), 3x Computer Officers(O3-2), 3x Senior Pilots(O4-3), 3x Senior Navigators(O3-2), 3x Communications Officers(O3-2), 3x Medical Officers(O4-3), and 10x Administrative Aides (O1-1)
Engines Crew - 126 (not including Section Officer - see Command)
Composed of the Chief Engineer(E8), 2x Engineer Mates(E7), 36x Petty Officers(E4 to E6), and 87x Drive Hands(E1 to E3)
Gunnery Crew - 127 (not including Section Officer - see Command)
Composed of 5x (one per weapon type) Weapon Chiefs(E8); 3x Spinal Mount Mates(E7), 12x Spinal Mount Petty Officers(E4 to E6), 15x Spinal Mount Ratings(E1 to E3); 24x Bay Weapon Petty Officers(E4 to E6), 24x Bay Weapon Gunners(E1 to E3); 36x Turret Battery Ratings(E1 to E3); 2x Screen Mates(E7), 2x Screen Petty Officers(E4 to E6), and 4x Screen Ratings(E1 to E3)
Fighter Crew - 75 (not including Section Officer - see Command)
Composed of Flight Commander(O4-3), 2x Wing Commanders(O3-2), 12x Fighter Leaders(O2-1), 48x Fighter Pilots(O2-1), and 12x Fighter Electronics Officers (O1-1)
Organized as 3 Wings of 2 Squadrons each. Each Squadron is composed of 8 single seat Fighters and 2 double seat Leaders. The Fighters are missile strike fighters with a magazine, while the Leaders are laser defense fighters with an extra seat for electronic warfare. Squadrons can operate split into two attack formations to present a smaller target. Total of 60 fighter craft.
Support Crew - 262 (still working on specific breakdowns, some show #)
Composed of Security (x150), Medical, Technical, Ordnance, Culinary, Maintenance, Cryptology, Administration, Recruiting, Religion/Counseling, Damage Control, Intelligence, Legal, Musician, Supplies, Postal, Life Support, Launch Tubes (x20), Docking Clamps, Auxiliary Craft Operators, and Fuel Handling
Frozen Watch - 310 (low berths)
OK (IMTU) it’s single quarters for Officers and shared quarters for all others. That would be 362.5 staterooms for 1,450 tons, plus 155 tons of low berths for the frozen watch.
OK, have a look if interested, find and report any silly typo or addition errors, point out anything I missed, or just comment on the choices made.
Design footnotes and crew details follow the design rundown.
Code:
High Guard Second Edition
Azhanti High Lightning class - TL14
+70,000 tons Hull - C4 Close Structure (0)
Partially Streamlined
-4,200 tons Armor - F5
-4,200 tons Jump Drive - J5
-3,500 tons Maneuver Drive - 2G (1)
Agility +1 -700 EP
-3,500 tons Power Plant - P5 +3,500 EP (2)
-35,000 tons Jump Fuel x 5 parsecs
-3,500 tons Power Plant Fuel x 4 weeks
Fuel Scoops
-770 tons Fuel Purifiers
-1,400 tons Main Bridge (3)
-14 tons Computer M/6 FIB -5 EP
-1,400 tons Auxiliary Bridge
-14 tons Computer M/6 FIB -5 EP
-1,400 tons Casual Bridge
-14 tons Computer M/6 FIB -5 EP
-3,000 tons Spinal Weapon - PA FN -900 EP (4)
1 Battery
-1,200 tons Bay Weapons - Missile F9
24 Batteries (19 Bearing)
-190 tons Triple Turrets - Beam F9 -570 EP
19 Batteries (15 Bearing)
-80 tons Double Turrets - Fusion F9 -160 EP
4 Batteries (3 Bearing)
-130 tons Triple Turrets - Sand F9
13 Batteries (10 Bearing)
-10 tons Nuclear Damper - F5 -50 EP (5)
-24 tons Meson Screen - F6 -840 EP (5)
-1,690 tons Small Craft Hanger x2 (6)
20 ton craft x65
-1,000 tons Launch Tubes x2 (7)
20 ton craft capacity
-1,760 tons External Large Craft x4
400 ton craft x4
-399 tons Cargo Holds x2 (8)
-1,450 tons Staterooms x362.5
Officers x105
Enlisted x515
-155 tons Lowberths x310
Frozen W x310(1) located in the wings and does not require routine maintenance (according to the description), maybe that’s how they get by with less crew than required, personally I think they just didn’t have room for the extra (wider) deck plans in the package so skipped it and made up the story about no maintenance to cover it, expect me to add those decks, and the connection to them, and ignore the no maintenance required, I’ve also got power for agility 1 in the redesign
(2) the second biggest canon break and another simple fix (even adding 10Kt to the design still wasn’t enough), cutting the size of the power plant in half (ie TL15 size) helps a lot, and fits with the HG first edition rules (all power plants were 0.01MPn and TL12 was the highest needed), so the story for it is that it is a cutting edge TL14 power plant, half the size of the standard for the same power (ie TL15 size), but requiring more maintenance so the crew is calculated at double (ie TL14 size)
(3) the text describes three bridges (main, auxiliary, and casual) as well as a triple redundant computer installation, so that’s what I went with, three bridges and three computers
(4) the later swapped in meson gun is not a perfect fit, it’s smaller (2000 tons) and needs more energy (1000 EP), but there is power to spare as noted and the extra room is not a problem (except for what some creative crew might do with it)
(5) so little tonnage I’d be tempted to have some backups, if there were any room, and I’d make the later retrofitted BG generator a replacement for the Nuclear Damper, so it’d be a 10 ton F1 instead of the 15 ton F2 to make more sense to me, the text describes the BG fitted models to have retained the meson screen but makes no mention of the ND which supports my choice as well
(6) per the listing of 60 fighters and some gunboats, though it says the gunboats are 40 tons in one place and 20 tons in another it has to be 20 ton gunboats (see the Launch Tube note), the 80 fighters listed in the S9 design would have to be 10 ton fighters (perhaps Rampart II or III models), what I decided to do was work with the HG first edition of 15 tons per fighter plus 5 tons maintenance area per fighter (for 20 tons per fighter) and then of course apply the HG second edition of x1.3 per craft for the hanger, so the hangers can actually accommodate 20 ton craft (like the gunboats, but without maintenance access) but are designed for the 15 ton fighters (with maintenance access and repair allowed in the hanger, equal to a small starport yard for them)
(7) so two launch tubes for craft up to 20 tons is what fits best
(8) all said and done (as much as I can stand it anyway) I was still 1 ton over, so I just picked on the cargo hold to take it from
All (S)Crewed Up:
I had typed up a bit of a long rambling rant on the crewing rules and errors, but it was boring even me before I finished, so I wiped it. Instead I’ll just say it looks like the canon crewing for the AHL forgot to include the Screens crew, the non-Pilot flight crew, screwed up the Pilot flight crew numbers, and took the Troops from the general Services pool.
EDIT - Should have included a note in case the rank shorthand isn't clear. Where you see "(O#-#)" that is Officer HG Rank - CT Rank. Where you see "(E#)" that is Enlisted HG Rank.
The easiest way to make it work and fit the rules was to stick to the canon 620 (per S5) crew total (though not the O/E ratio) and fudge the breakdown, as follows:
Running Crew - 620 Total (105x Officer ranks and 515x Enlisted ranks)
Command Crew - 30
Composed of the Captain(O7-6), Executive Officer(O6-5), 3x Section Officers(O5-4), 3x Computer Officers(O3-2), 3x Senior Pilots(O4-3), 3x Senior Navigators(O3-2), 3x Communications Officers(O3-2), 3x Medical Officers(O4-3), and 10x Administrative Aides (O1-1)
Engines Crew - 126 (not including Section Officer - see Command)
Composed of the Chief Engineer(E8), 2x Engineer Mates(E7), 36x Petty Officers(E4 to E6), and 87x Drive Hands(E1 to E3)
Gunnery Crew - 127 (not including Section Officer - see Command)
Composed of 5x (one per weapon type) Weapon Chiefs(E8); 3x Spinal Mount Mates(E7), 12x Spinal Mount Petty Officers(E4 to E6), 15x Spinal Mount Ratings(E1 to E3); 24x Bay Weapon Petty Officers(E4 to E6), 24x Bay Weapon Gunners(E1 to E3); 36x Turret Battery Ratings(E1 to E3); 2x Screen Mates(E7), 2x Screen Petty Officers(E4 to E6), and 4x Screen Ratings(E1 to E3)
Fighter Crew - 75 (not including Section Officer - see Command)
Composed of Flight Commander(O4-3), 2x Wing Commanders(O3-2), 12x Fighter Leaders(O2-1), 48x Fighter Pilots(O2-1), and 12x Fighter Electronics Officers (O1-1)
Organized as 3 Wings of 2 Squadrons each. Each Squadron is composed of 8 single seat Fighters and 2 double seat Leaders. The Fighters are missile strike fighters with a magazine, while the Leaders are laser defense fighters with an extra seat for electronic warfare. Squadrons can operate split into two attack formations to present a smaller target. Total of 60 fighter craft.
Support Crew - 262 (still working on specific breakdowns, some show #)
Composed of Security (x150), Medical, Technical, Ordnance, Culinary, Maintenance, Cryptology, Administration, Recruiting, Religion/Counseling, Damage Control, Intelligence, Legal, Musician, Supplies, Postal, Life Support, Launch Tubes (x20), Docking Clamps, Auxiliary Craft Operators, and Fuel Handling
Frozen Watch - 310 (low berths)
OK (IMTU) it’s single quarters for Officers and shared quarters for all others. That would be 362.5 staterooms for 1,450 tons, plus 155 tons of low berths for the frozen watch.
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far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Quick clarification edit in the post above concerning the rank shorthand used, see above in the crew notes.
Now where did you want me to drop those tanks? :smirk:
EDIT - And I actually did find a small error in the post above, I forgot to adjust the gunnery crew when I was able to restore the full turret count. Before adding the 10Kt to the hull there were not enough hardpoints for the listed weapons. That's fixed now.
Now where did you want me to drop those tanks? :smirk:
EDIT - And I actually did find a small error in the post above, I forgot to adjust the gunnery crew when I was able to restore the full turret count. Before adding the 10Kt to the hull there were not enough hardpoints for the listed weapons. That's fixed now.
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