CT Combat

[Supplement Four]

Just FYI, in case you're interested...

I use the same rules in CT as written, but I move the DMs around a bit.

It makes more sense to me that armor reduces/absorbs damages that it does that armor makes a person harder to hit (I'd argue, in some cases with bulky armor, armored targets with lower mobility are easier to hit).

So, I still use the 8+ with DMs required to hit, but I move the DMs around in this fashion:

(Attack DMs are applied to the 2D to-hit throw. Damage DMs are applied to the damage dice thrown for the specific weapon.)


FIRE COMBAT
---------------------
Attack DMs
---------------------
+?DM ... Attacker skill
+?DM ... DEX DM
+?DM ... Range DM


---------------------
Damage DMs
---------------------
-?DM ... Armor Value (AV's from Striker)
+?DM ... Armor Adjustment (CT Armor DMs)


MELEE COMBAT
---------------------
Attack DMs
---------------------
+?DM ... Attacker skill
-?DM ... Defender's skill
+?DM ... STR DM
-?DM ... Weakened Blow DM (if applicable)
-?DM ... Weapon Block DM (from Striker)
+?DM ... Range DM


---------------------
Damage DMs
---------------------
-?DM ... Armor Value (AV's from Striker)
+?DM ... Armor Adjustment (CT Armor DMs)
+?DM ... STR DM
-?DM ... Weakened Blow DM (if applicable)


---------------------------------------------
If you don't have Striker, and you want the Striker AVs and Weapon block DMs, I'll scribble 'em down for you.

 

[Supplement Four]

Just FYI, in case you're interested...

I use the same rules in CT as written, but I move the DMs around a bit.

It makes more sense to me that armor reduces/absorbs damages that it does that armor makes a person harder to hit (I'd argue, in some cases with bulky armor, armored targets with lower mobility are easier to hit).

So, I still use the 8+ with DMs required to hit, but I move the DMs around in this fashion:

(Attack DMs are applied to the 2D to-hit throw. Damage DMs are applied to the damage dice thrown for the specific weapon.)


FIRE COMBAT
---------------------
Attack DMs
---------------------
+?DM ... Attacker skill
+?DM ... DEX DM
+?DM ... Range DM


---------------------
Damage DMs
---------------------
-?DM ... Armor Value (AV's from Striker)
+?DM ... Armor Adjustment (CT Armor DMs)


MELEE COMBAT
---------------------
Attack DMs
---------------------
+?DM ... Attacker skill
-?DM ... Defender's skill
+?DM ... STR DM
-?DM ... Weakened Blow DM (if applicable)
-?DM ... Weapon Block DM (from Striker)
+?DM ... Range DM


---------------------
Damage DMs
---------------------
-?DM ... Armor Value (AV's from Striker)
+?DM ... Armor Adjustment (CT Armor DMs)
+?DM ... STR DM
-?DM ... Weakened Blow DM (if applicable)


---------------------------------------------
If you don't have Striker, and you want the Striker AVs and Weapon block DMs, I'll scribble 'em down for you.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by sithknight:
But much easier just to make a 1d6 damage chart, and roll a damage roll for every 50 hit points the vehicle takes, and treat its armor as character armor with mods, such as:

ATV
DT: 50 (damage threshold)
Armor: Cloth+2
Damage Chart
1: Powerplant damage. 1-3 inoperable, 4-5 1/2 speed, 6 catastophic fusion explosion imminent.
2: Steering jamed or wheels shredded (move -25%)
3: Hull penetrated. Roll 7+ or suffer damage as per weapon.
4: Sensors damage: ladar, spotlights, etc.
5: Out-of-control. Roll 11+ to avoind serious crash doing 2D to all paseengers.
6: Fire: interior hit causes fire. Smoke inhalation and burns (roll 6+ to avoid), will continue to burn and consumer air each turn.

This is very freakin' cool. I like this a lot.

I'd need some guidelines, though. That's a pretty detailed damage chart for a GM to just spring out of his butt during a game (unless he prepared one for vehicles he knew were going to be in the scenario).

Tell me, where'd you get the idea that an ATV has a damage threshold of 50?

I wouldn't mind coming up with a system like this for CT vehicle combat, but do it in a fashion as I did the CT starship sensor rules....that is, the vehicle damage system would use existing CT vehicle stats to determine its damage table.

We could use hull tonnage as a starting point of damage threshold.

Interesting...I'll have to look at this.

Sithknight, I'd like to hear your reasoning as to why you picked the things you did in the chart. It's a very cool chart.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by sithknight:
But much easier just to make a 1d6 damage chart, and roll a damage roll for every 50 hit points the vehicle takes, and treat its armor as character armor with mods, such as:

ATV
DT: 50 (damage threshold)
Armor: Cloth+2
Damage Chart
1: Powerplant damage. 1-3 inoperable, 4-5 1/2 speed, 6 catastophic fusion explosion imminent.
2: Steering jamed or wheels shredded (move -25%)
3: Hull penetrated. Roll 7+ or suffer damage as per weapon.
4: Sensors damage: ladar, spotlights, etc.
5: Out-of-control. Roll 11+ to avoind serious crash doing 2D to all paseengers.
6: Fire: interior hit causes fire. Smoke inhalation and burns (roll 6+ to avoid), will continue to burn and consumer air each turn.

This is very freakin' cool. I like this a lot.

I'd need some guidelines, though. That's a pretty detailed damage chart for a GM to just spring out of his butt during a game (unless he prepared one for vehicles he knew were going to be in the scenario).

Tell me, where'd you get the idea that an ATV has a damage threshold of 50?

I wouldn't mind coming up with a system like this for CT vehicle combat, but do it in a fashion as I did the CT starship sensor rules....that is, the vehicle damage system would use existing CT vehicle stats to determine its damage table.

We could use hull tonnage as a starting point of damage threshold.

Interesting...I'll have to look at this.

Sithknight, I'd like to hear your reasoning as to why you picked the things you did in the chart. It's a very cool chart.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by FlightCommanderSolitude:
The "hit points" idea is sometimes just too silly to cope with.

I would agree with this in most games (like D&D, especially).

But, I've always admired the way damage in CT degrades your abilities.

You're wounded, and you might be subject to penalties--you can't carry as much because your STR went down...you now have a peanalty to-hit because of your STR requirement for your melee weapon...and your END went down, so you're tired, and now, all of a sudden, you're suffering the weakened blow DMs, etc.

So, I quite like CT's damage system. And, if you use the fist blood rule as written (I don't), the number of "hit points" your character has doesn't mean dick because if he gets shot, he's probably down and unconscious (and maybe dead).

I think CT's got quite an elegant damage system.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by FlightCommanderSolitude:
The "hit points" idea is sometimes just too silly to cope with.

I would agree with this in most games (like D&D, especially).

But, I've always admired the way damage in CT degrades your abilities.

You're wounded, and you might be subject to penalties--you can't carry as much because your STR went down...you now have a peanalty to-hit because of your STR requirement for your melee weapon...and your END went down, so you're tired, and now, all of a sudden, you're suffering the weakened blow DMs, etc.

So, I quite like CT's damage system. And, if you use the fist blood rule as written (I don't), the number of "hit points" your character has doesn't mean dick because if he gets shot, he's probably down and unconscious (and maybe dead).

I think CT's got quite an elegant damage system.

 

[Supplement Four]

BTW,

This thread is making me think about some things in my game.

For example, I use a modified version of the First Blood rule, where every roll for damage typically has one die applied randomly for damage (instead of all damage dice applied to a single attribute assigned randomly).

I'm thinking of doing something like this:

Final Result of Attack Throw:

8-9 ... No random dice.
10-11 ... 1 random die.
12-13 ... 2 random dice.
14-15 ... 3 random dice.
..etc..

This say, damage in the throw is much more deadly given the higher the attack. In effect, weapon penetration will be better on higher attack throws.

And, I'm thinking of adjust this even further based on body part hit (I use a hit location table).

Head = +1 random die (from the total allowed, not extra damage dice)
Torso = normal as thrown
Arm = -1 random die.
Leg = normal if attack throw odd, but -1 random die if attack throw even.

Something like that.

And, Critical Success could add one random die as well.

For example, if a head hit is obtained (+1 random die) on a roll of 11, and your damage is 1D. Then, that 1D is applied randomly (it's not increased to 2D).

But, if a head hit is obtained on a roll of 8, and your damage is 1D, then that 1D will be applied randomly (where as, on a roll of 8, that 1D typically wouldn't have been applied randomly).

I know this is hard to follow. I'm not explaining it well...I'm just brainstorming in my head and writing at the same time.

If you're "getting" what I'm talking about here, then I'll give you a lot of credit for deciphering my ponderings.

I like it, though. I like it.

I think I'm changing my damage concept because of this.

 

[Supplement Four]

BTW,

This thread is making me think about some things in my game.

For example, I use a modified version of the First Blood rule, where every roll for damage typically has one die applied randomly for damage (instead of all damage dice applied to a single attribute assigned randomly).

I'm thinking of doing something like this:

Final Result of Attack Throw:

8-9 ... No random dice.
10-11 ... 1 random die.
12-13 ... 2 random dice.
14-15 ... 3 random dice.
..etc..

This say, damage in the throw is much more deadly given the higher the attack. In effect, weapon penetration will be better on higher attack throws.

And, I'm thinking of adjust this even further based on body part hit (I use a hit location table).

Head = +1 random die (from the total allowed, not extra damage dice)
Torso = normal as thrown
Arm = -1 random die.
Leg = normal if attack throw odd, but -1 random die if attack throw even.

Something like that.

And, Critical Success could add one random die as well.

For example, if a head hit is obtained (+1 random die) on a roll of 11, and your damage is 1D. Then, that 1D is applied randomly (it's not increased to 2D).

But, if a head hit is obtained on a roll of 8, and your damage is 1D, then that 1D will be applied randomly (where as, on a roll of 8, that 1D typically wouldn't have been applied randomly).

I know this is hard to follow. I'm not explaining it well...I'm just brainstorming in my head and writing at the same time.

If you're "getting" what I'm talking about here, then I'll give you a lot of credit for deciphering my ponderings.

I like it, though. I like it.

I think I'm changing my damage concept because of this.

 

[Plankowner]

I think you mean this...

NORMAL damage, the player can decide which stat to apply the damage to, thus spreading the damage around and protecting a low stat.

RANDOM damage is just that, the player has no control over which stat will be reduced and therefore cannot protect a low stat. This would be worse for the player, therfore is desired at higher hit rolls.

Your table gives you how many of the damage dice the player can apply and how many are random.

Did I come close?

 

[Plankowner]

I think you mean this...

NORMAL damage, the player can decide which stat to apply the damage to, thus spreading the damage around and protecting a low stat.

RANDOM damage is just that, the player has no control over which stat will be reduced and therefore cannot protect a low stat. This would be worse for the player, therfore is desired at higher hit rolls.

Your table gives you how many of the damage dice the player can apply and how many are random.

Did I come close?

 

[MaineCoon]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
According to a lot of the combat reports I've read from Iraq and Afghanistan, troops in body armour rarely notice being hit by small arms fire that the armour defeats - they certainly aren't knocked down by it.

Handguns probably not, unless its at close range then it might. But I've seen footage of a a 7.62x39 round knocking a soldier over. Granted, it might have been mostly the soldier throwing himself down.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if modern body armor dissipatest he shock enough that they won't notice it in the heat of combat.

 

[MaineCoon]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
According to a lot of the combat reports I've read from Iraq and Afghanistan, troops in body armour rarely notice being hit by small arms fire that the armour defeats - they certainly aren't knocked down by it.

Handguns probably not, unless its at close range then it might. But I've seen footage of a a 7.62x39 round knocking a soldier over. Granted, it might have been mostly the soldier throwing himself down.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if modern body armor dissipatest he shock enough that they won't notice it in the heat of combat.

 

[sithknight]

Um... I got the 50 hits threshold from memory. I seem to recall a CT published advanture (Across the Bright Face??) with an ATV with 50 hit points before a damage table was consulted...

Anyone remember?


**
Cool idea on applying armor DMs to damage. So an autorifle which is +7 vs. Nothing would roll 3D+7 upon a hit for damage? A laser rifle would roll 5D-8 vs. ablat for damage...?
***
I am very annoyed that Quicklink created their Book 1-3 complilation from some old-ass, version 1 stuff. I was ripped off, man. It doesn't have range band space combat, the combat rules are obviously first printing, etc. etc.

I use to LOVE The Traveller Book. The art was great (esp. the chick in the parka on some cold world with the sun behind her...) and the rules were up-to-date. No range-band ship combat, though.
***
Someone PLEASE post the ship range-band combat rules. For god's sake, this stuff is practically abandonware.

 

[sithknight]

Um... I got the 50 hits threshold from memory. I seem to recall a CT published advanture (Across the Bright Face??) with an ATV with 50 hit points before a damage table was consulted...

Anyone remember?


**
Cool idea on applying armor DMs to damage. So an autorifle which is +7 vs. Nothing would roll 3D+7 upon a hit for damage? A laser rifle would roll 5D-8 vs. ablat for damage...?
***
I am very annoyed that Quicklink created their Book 1-3 complilation from some old-ass, version 1 stuff. I was ripped off, man. It doesn't have range band space combat, the combat rules are obviously first printing, etc. etc.

I use to LOVE The Traveller Book. The art was great (esp. the chick in the parka on some cold world with the sun behind her...) and the rules were up-to-date. No range-band ship combat, though.
***
Someone PLEASE post the ship range-band combat rules. For god's sake, this stuff is practically abandonware.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by MaineCoon:
Handguns probably not, unless its at close range then it might. But I've seen footage of a a 7.62x39 round knocking a soldier over. Granted, it might have been mostly the soldier throwing himself down.

Nope, not handguns. AK47 rounds.

Then there are the reports of the 5.56 not knocking the bad guy down, and he doesn't have body armour.

It's basic physics - if the recoil of firing the weapon doesn't knock you over then the bullet can't either, if it hits armour.

If it penetrates and hits your spine that's a different matter.

Mythbusters made a good episode debunking knockdown.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if modern body armor dissipatest he shock enough that they won't notice it in the heat of combat.

I've read of soldiers not noticing they've received any incoming fire until they've checked their kit after the firefight.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by MaineCoon:
Handguns probably not, unless its at close range then it might. But I've seen footage of a a 7.62x39 round knocking a soldier over. Granted, it might have been mostly the soldier throwing himself down.

Nope, not handguns. AK47 rounds.

Then there are the reports of the 5.56 not knocking the bad guy down, and he doesn't have body armour.

It's basic physics - if the recoil of firing the weapon doesn't knock you over then the bullet can't either, if it hits armour.

If it penetrates and hits your spine that's a different matter.

Mythbusters made a good episode debunking knockdown.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if modern body armor dissipatest he shock enough that they won't notice it in the heat of combat.

I've read of soldiers not noticing they've received any incoming fire until they've checked their kit after the firefight.

 

[sithknight]

Oh - to answer your question about the vehicle damage chart. Well, I am a HUGE D6 System fan...it doesn't use hit points (well, one version does...but I dont) but does use damage charts...I love those things.

I just read the descript of ATV and made up a chart. Borrowed some ideas from Star Frontiers vehicle damage, added in the fact that ATVs have fusion plants, and I love lighting PCs on fire - so I added that.

Actually, a D66 chart would be more fun - with 55 ways to be damage!! Bwhahahaha! *evil grin*

D66 charts rock...

 

[sithknight]

Oh - to answer your question about the vehicle damage chart. Well, I am a HUGE D6 System fan...it doesn't use hit points (well, one version does...but I dont) but does use damage charts...I love those things.

I just read the descript of ATV and made up a chart. Borrowed some ideas from Star Frontiers vehicle damage, added in the fact that ATVs have fusion plants, and I love lighting PCs on fire - so I added that.

Actually, a D66 chart would be more fun - with 55 ways to be damage!! Bwhahahaha! *evil grin*

D66 charts rock...

 

[sithknight]

BTW - I am writing up an article called "Salvaging Doom of the Singing Star" - that rather anemic Judges Guild shipplan/adventure. I'll let you know when it is done...

 

[sithknight]

BTW - I am writing up an article called "Salvaging Doom of the Singing Star" - that rather anemic Judges Guild shipplan/adventure. I'll let you know when it is done...