CT+ Computers

[robject]

I've still got this nagging suspicion that all starships will now automatically have on-board nav-6, maneuver/evade-6, gunner interact-6, multi target-6, select-6, anti-missile-6, ecm-6, launch-6, library-6, comms-6, engineering-6, detect-6, auto-medic-6, auto-systems-repair-6, and ship's boat-6, each of which has its own brain, so that all programs may run simultaneously.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Theo D Lite:
We need to be careful here that we are distinguishing between RF power transmitted into the ether and electrical power supplied to the rig and amplifier if any.

Well, we don't need to be all that careful. Efficiency of conversion of electrical power into RF is usually quite high.

 

[Theo D Lite]

Originally posted by Anthony:
Well, we don't need to be all that careful. Efficiency of conversion of electrical power into RF is usually quite high.

Well now you're getting into areas where my knowledge is a bit thin on the ground, and granted by the time of the 3I there will no doubt be quantum improvements but I would have said that my example of 304W electrical power in and 100W RF power out suggests otherwise, but I am in over my head now!

 

[parmasson]

By robject

I've still got this nagging suspicion that all starships will now automatically have on-board nav-6, maneuver/evade-6, gunner interact-6, multi target-6, select-6, anti-missile-6, ecm-6, launch-6, library-6, comms-6, engineering-6, detect-6, auto-medic-6, auto-systems-repair-6, and ship's boat-6, each of which has its own brain, so that all programs may run simultaneously.

If everybody has this equipment then nobody has an advantage. Lots of money, equipment that needs constant attention.

Or we can resort to boarding actions with belter’s axes and cutlasses.

 

[robject]

Well, exactly.

If these things are cheap enough to be insignificant add-ons to any ship, then there's no game reason to have these computer rules at all... or, rather, there's only a reason to have exceptional, distinctive computer program rules expensive enough to exclude many.

In other words, any program worth a true tactical advantage is going to be expensive.

 

[parmasson]

... or, rather, there's only a reason to have exceptional, distinctive computer program rules expensive enough to exclude many.

Hmmm I see your point I didn’t think of it that way. It does turn out to be a lot of extra detail that might not be necessary. I was looking at it as one more thing to go wrong.

In other words, any program worth a true tactical advantage is going to be expensive.

I agree 100% about the price issue. The off the shelf TL-12 Norton Scout Defender 2.0 will just not be as effective as the navy’s latest anti-missile programs. Military grade programs could be mostly unavailable, astronomically expensive and designed to only run on Imperial military computers. PCs could write their own programs or attempt to decrypt/back engineer/whatever an illegal copy which could be an adventure all its own.

Perhaps those 4+ ton computer rooms are more like vaults where half a dozen of these brain boxes live along with their battery backups, transmitters, climate control, shielding and whatnot.
Maintaining all that hardware and software makes that computer skill much more valuable.
The possibilities are endless.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by robject:
I've still got this nagging suspicion that all starships will now automatically have on-board nav-6, maneuver/evade-6, gunner interact-6, multi target-6, select-6, anti-missile-6, ecm-6, launch-6, library-6, comms-6, engineering-6, detect-6, auto-medic-6, auto-systems-repair-6, and ship's boat-6, each of which has its own brain, so that all programs may run simultaneously.

The maximum skill level would start at 4, higher levels must be learned through experience

It could be argued that having the robot/computer with a skill of 4 is what makes the various ship tasks as easy as they are - it effectively lowers the difficulty by one grade.
As the computers/robots become damaged the shipboard tasks become harder because they aren't there to help.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by robject:
I've still got this nagging suspicion that all starships will now automatically have on-board nav-6, maneuver/evade-6, gunner interact-6, multi target-6, select-6, anti-missile-6, ecm-6, launch-6, library-6, comms-6, engineering-6, detect-6, auto-medic-6, auto-systems-repair-6, and ship's boat-6, each of which has its own brain, so that all programs may run simultaneously.

Just makr 1 LBB2 unit = 10 LBB8 ones, and systems will differ by their storage capacity; also, drop the "no more than level 4" rule for LBB2 programs and LBB2 programs alone, so that you can perform Jump-6 without "teaching" it to an AI. It isn't a skill, after all, unlike the LBB8 programs.

 

[mike wightman]

You'd have to differentiate between the skill programs - navigation, pilot, etc. - which have the level 4 limit, and the operation programs - like jump - which are required to make certain systems work.
A jump 6 program isn't the same thing as a pilot 6 program. The former only allows the use of jump drives 1-6, it doesn't allow the operation of a jump 1 six levels better.
Pilot skill on the other hand does modify task rolls etc.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
You'd have to differentiate between the skill programs - navigation, pilot, etc. - which have the level 4 limit, and the operation programs - like jump - which are required to make certain systems work.
A jump 6 program isn't the same thing as a pilot 6 program. The former only allows the use of jump drives 1-6, it doesn't allow the operation of a jump 1 six levels better.
Pilot skill on the other hand does modify task rolls etc.

Exactly - a computer would have three types of programs - OS (actually LBB8's Base Logic and Base Command), Brain Applications (LBB8 skills) and Ship (or Station or Arcology or Whatever) Applications. The "OS" and Brain Applications would follow the standard LBB8 rules, while the Ship Applications would follow different rules, since they are not "skills" per se, but true applications; they would also have bigger sizes, typically 10 LBB8 units per LBB2 unit.

Once we will get a firm grasp on our computer rules, we will be able to move on to other interesting aspects of computers - such as hacking.

 

[parmasson]

a computer would have three types of programs

No problem there, just list them separately with appropriate modifiers if necessary.
That would give the computer a great deal of flexibility. Perhaps if one of the categories was corrupted by a hacker or other electronic attack they could not go right for the OS.

First you have to get through the skill programs security, then the ship operations programs and then you can get access to the basic logic stuff.
Core/Operations/Skills Integrated Layering Architecture (COSIL Architecture)

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Unless, of course, the head tech didn't change the root password on install. Then, you could probably bypass most of the hard stuff and go straight for the "basic logic stuff."

Do you think computer OSs will still respond to overly large bits of data by giving the sender total access to the system in 1100?

 

[parmasson]

“Unless, of course, the head tech didn't change the root password on install. Then, you could probably bypass most of the hard stuff and go straight for the "basic logic stuff."

If the computer had any respectable percentage of synaptic processors the programming would be a bit different on every ship. Each computer’s BL/BC will be a bit different. Security could be customized for each computer. To “hack” my ship’s computer is not merely giving it the right word or code. The security system could recognize threats using its “autonomous” logic programming. What I mean is the OS could “know” when attempted access was an attack. As time went by the computer would become better and better at resting threats.

“Do you think computer OSs will still respond to overly large bits of data by giving the sender total access to the system in 1100?”

Ignorance showing but I hope this answers it. . .
No and this is why,
As time goes by the applications can improve themselves and as a result become an organic part of the programming which is why you simply cannot “make a copy” of the Pilot-6 program that is running. The application and the OS become more like a thought process and less like the yes/no programs we know. They gain experience by benefit of their synaptic processing.

Root passwords may be the way to the heart of a TL-7/8 with only linear processing and storage but I think that the computers of the 12th Imperial Century will not be nearly as primitive in the way they process data. It is like comparing a Babbage engine to the latest computers at Los Alamos Nat Lab.

 

[robject]

IMTU

It takes a megacorporation-trained programmer with specialized hardware/software to bypass security, or else the contingency override codes for that make, model, and year system, taken from a subsector admin's desk. This applies equally to breaking into a starship, except a laser cutter will also eventually defeat civilian security

How's that for a gamist answer?

 

[mike wightman]

I wonder how good at hacking ship security programs a Cymbeline chip would be...

The covert operatives of the Imperium could have had such things for years...

 

[Jame]

Originally posted by robject:
IMTU

It takes a megacorporation-trained programmer with specialized hardware/software to bypass security, or else the contingency override codes for that make, model, and year system, taken from a subsector admin's desk. This applies equally to breaking into a starship, except a laser cutter will also eventually defeat civilian security

How's that for a gamist answer?

IMTU, any corporate or mil/gov person with Computer 2+ can do this. A civilian needs 3+, at the moment, but I may bring it in line with corp/gov/mil.

 

[parmasson]

What are the LBB8 processing stats for Cymbeline Chip?
I want to put a C.C. some storage and a battery in a suitcase sized case for intelligence agents.

 

[mike wightman]

What are the LBB8 processing stats for Cymbeline Chip?

Good question.

I suppose you could work backwards from their Intelligence stat (1d+5)...

 

[mike wightman]

I want to put a C.C. some storage and a battery in a suitcase sized case for intelligence agents.

The S3 team in the DGP MTJ3 adventure Rapid Repo are given several "black box" devices:

"Fixer" - negates remote security sensors

"Lockpick" - opens electronic locks, including the security doors in IN Depot R&D departments

Ichiban Model 117 porta comp - includes a host of computer intrusion, code breaking, and virus programs.

 

[parmasson]

Intelligence 1d+5 and figure Edu is close to the same. That would give the chip a “native” capacity of at least 15 skill slots!