CT Vargr: 1d6 charisma? or 2d6?

[Maladominus]

I am reading my received copy (from eBay) of Alien Module 3 The Vargr.

On Page 8, it says Vargr characters are generated using 1d6 for Charisma.

On several other pages, it clearly says to use 2d6 to determine Charisma (which replaces Social Standing).

Which one is it?? Anyone know?

 

[DaveShayne]

Consider that many of the careers have modifiers for charisma of 7+ or 8+ for various things and I would sugest that 2D makes more sense. YMMV.

 

[mike wightman]

In the Vargr character generation system in The Traveller Adventure it is definitely rolled on 1d.

In the DGP Vilani and Vargr MT supplement it is also generated initially on 1d.

The success table can grant up to 2 points of Charisma per term of service, so in lucky individuals it could rise pretty quickly.

HTH

 

[Maladominus]

Thanks for response.

Yes, you are both correct. I see evidence in both cases. The "1d6" statement on Page 8 of Alien Module 3 was not a simple typo. In fact, one paragraph below it, it states that the initial Vargr charisma will only range from 1 to 6 (since it is based on 1d6).

However, the other pages (of the same module) on the specific Vargr generation tables do say "2d6". And in those tables, the Vargr only gets a positive DM if charisma is like 8+ (which of course is impossible to achieve if your charisma is no higher than 6).

But yes Sigg, you are correct. I do see that it is easily possible for the Vargr's charisma to rise above 6 quickly.... with only a little bit of luck on the Success table.


And finally... I'm very familiar with the Alien Module 6 Solomani tables, and the Solomanis also use a single 1d6 to determine initial "Party Standing" ---- which of course (like Vargr charisma) replaces Social Standing.

Ugh.... this is hard to decide which one is "correct". I was hoping Mark Miller would have posted Errata on something like this long ago.

 

[mike wightman]

I'd go with 1d, if you look at the Vargr expanded careers you'll notice mistakes that have slipped in there too, i.e. rolling for Soc rather than Cha.

Plus Vilani and Vargr is just too good to be wrong

 

[daryen]

Go with 1d6. The occurances of 2d6 are almost guaranteed to be old fashioned cut-n-paste errors.

 

[DaveShayne]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
Ugh.... this is hard to decide which one is "correct". I was hoping Mark Miller would have posted Errata on something like this long ago.

Well considering that later publications offer 1D then I would have to rethink my previous statement. Even though it seems a bit harsh considering the "High Charisma Table" requires a charisma of 8+ to roll on. This means that a number of skills (in the case of corsairs: leader, forward observer, pilot, and streetwise) will only be available to characters who get "lucky" on the success table a time or three.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by DaveShayne:
Well considering that later publications offer 1D then I would have to rethink my previous statement. Even though it seems a bit harsh considering the "High Charisma Table" requires a charisma of 8+ to roll on. This means that a number of skills (in the case of corsairs: leader, forward observer, pilot, and streetwise) will only be available to characters who get "lucky" on the success table a time or three.

Well, this does fit in with the overall feel of CT. Some of the human professions are incredibly difficult to advance in. I think Merchants have a steep officer progression roll, and the Navy a steep officer entrance roll.

On the other hand, that 8+ could be a cut-n-paste error, too. Considering that the last skill table is normally only available with and Edu of 8+, it is entirely conceivable that when changed from Edu to Cha the editors forgot to change the requirement number.

 

[DaveShayne]

Originally posted by daryen:
Well, this does fit in with the overall feel of CT. Some of the human professions are incredibly difficult to advance in. I think Merchants have a steep officer progression roll, and the Navy a steep officer entrance roll.

But in neither case are you locked out of what I would consider a very important skill for the career.

On the other hand, that 8+ could be a cut-n-paste error, too. Considering that the last skill table is normally only available with and Edu of 8+, it is entirely conceivable that when changed from Edu to Cha the editors forgot to change the requirement number.

A posibility I supose. So what do you think it should be 5+ or 6+?

 

[mike wightman]

Looking once again at The Traveller Adventure and Vilani and Vargr, the High Charisma table is restricted to Charisma 8+ in both books.

 

[far-trader]

I have a vague recollection of this (the Charisma requirement on the table) being addressed in a JTAS or something. Just a sidebar or editor remark that it was wrong and should be something else. But then it could be I'm wrong and just recalling a house ruling to that effect

 

[mike wightman]

I've read though JTAS and Challenge magazines looking for such errata - it rings a bell with me too - but I can't find any

I'll have to go back and read through more carefully... if it's there, I'll find it

 

[Fritz_Brown]

But, if your Charisma can go up with time in service (and a bit of luck), you're not locked out of those skills. You just can't get them until you climb a bit up the pack ladder. Hey, you can't have every wet-behind-the-ears whelp getting Leader skill!

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I've read though JTAS and Challenge magazines looking for such errata - it rings a bell with me too - but I can't find any

I'll have to go back and read through more carefully... if it's there, I'll find it

I had a quick look at what I still have handy before posting above and didn't see it either, which is why I'm not sure.

 

[DaveShayne]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
But, if your Charisma can go up with time in service (and a bit of luck), you're not locked out of those skills. You just can't get them until you climb a bit up the pack ladder. Hey, you can't have every wet-behind-the-ears whelp getting Leader skill!

Well yeah, but you would think streetwise at least might be helpfull in the grunt end of corsairing.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by DaveShayne:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by daryen:
On the other hand, that 8+ could be a cut-n-paste error, too. Considering that the last skill table is normally only available with and Edu of 8+, it is entirely conceivable that when changed from Edu to Cha the editors forgot to change the requirement number.

A posibility I supose. So what do you think it should be 5+ or 6+? </font>[/QUOTE]I would probably go with 6+. It is a little easier for a character to raise his charisma during char gen than it is to raise their education.

From what I can tell, the key to charisma is to roll 10+ on the success table. Yes, I understand that 10+ is hard odds, but they are no harder than becoming a human Navy Ensign or a human Merchant 3rd Officer. And I have seen *lots* of those get generated.

I do agree, however, that Streetwise being on that table is a tad ridiculous.

 

[Maladominus]

A Vargr Loner/Prospector who ends up mustering out with a personal starship will also be screwed if he doesn't have the Pilot skill to fly it.

The Vargr Loner/Prospector must have high charisma to have any chance getting that Pilot skill....

 

[daryen]

Mal,

It's worse than that. Sure they need high charisma to get pilot. But at least they can theoretically get pilot. Navigation and Engineering aren't even on the tables, so the possibility of a Loner running around alone in a Seeker are literally nil.

Same problem with Corsairs, too.

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by daryen:
Mal,

It's worse than that. Sure they need high charisma to get pilot. But at least they can theoretically get pilot. Navigation and Engineering aren't even on the tables, so the possibility of a Loner running around alone in a Seeker are literally nil.

Same problem with Corsairs, too.

Exactly! The very definition of a Vargr "loner/prospector" is someone who wanders alone, solo. Even worse, the Personal Development tables may "grant" the Loner a -1 Charisma. So in the end, the Loner may never have high enough Charisma to roll for those "advanced skills" such as Pilot. Yet he has a chance at owning a starship! Who does he expect to fly it for him? He is a Loner! He cannot *lead* other people, and he has (in Vargr terms) zero chance of hiring or recruiting others to do his bidding or hire them to Pilot his ship!

 

[DaveShayne]

Originally posted by daryen:
I would probably go with 6+.

Well first I thought 5+ but then it looked like it would become too easy so 6+ maybe is better.

From what I can tell, the key to charisma is to roll 10+ on the success table. Yes, I understand that 10+ is hard odds, but they are no harder than becoming a human Navy Ensign or a human Merchant 3rd Officer. And I have seen *lots* of those get generated.

Yeah but you don't need to get promoted to get at any of the skill charts for those careers so it's not quite analogous.