Current Dollar-Credit Equivalent
- Thread starter Timerover51
- Start date
Lycanorukke
SOC-13
When I was a kid we ate beef and chicken, with some rice, but more Idaho potatoes and gravy. Carrots, eggs, bacon, some other vegetables. Texas being Beef Country back then... Fish sticks or going fishing was the only way to not eat beef. We had our own chickens.
After my dad was transferred, we kept the same diet mostly. Fish not being all that available. The early fish sticks weren't very good taste wise.
I remember us visting relatives in Philadelphia and they took us to a Japanese restaurant. The waitresses wore kimonos. It was suggested by my cousin that I try the shrimp fried rice. It was delicious.
I have increased the amount of rice I eat since then. Mostly whole grain rice. I probably eat 10 pounds of rice per year. About 10-12 pounds of pasta per year. I eat far fewer baked potatoes than I used to.
So I would say that my eating pattern has changed substantionaly since my childhood not just due to moving around, but that fish is more available past the coastline. Sadly, many restaurants I've been to inland don't do a good job cooking shrimp or fish.
This has made me hungry, its also almost lunch time, and I think I'll head to the local hibachi place.
After my dad was transferred, we kept the same diet mostly. Fish not being all that available. The early fish sticks weren't very good taste wise.
I remember us visting relatives in Philadelphia and they took us to a Japanese restaurant. The waitresses wore kimonos. It was suggested by my cousin that I try the shrimp fried rice. It was delicious.
I have increased the amount of rice I eat since then. Mostly whole grain rice. I probably eat 10 pounds of rice per year. About 10-12 pounds of pasta per year. I eat far fewer baked potatoes than I used to.
So I would say that my eating pattern has changed substantionaly since my childhood not just due to moving around, but that fish is more available past the coastline. Sadly, many restaurants I've been to inland don't do a good job cooking shrimp or fish.
This has made me hungry, its also almost lunch time, and I think I'll head to the local hibachi place.
Highorbit_drifter
SOC-12
Any monetary system is going to have inflation. Once you assign a fixed amount to the monetary unit, like the Credit, its value is going to erode. These effects get worse when spread over a large area, add in government or private spending hikes, like wars or colonization movements or tech level advances.
I would guess the 3I resets the value of the Credit every century or two. Say, once the average value of basic labor, however you define that, rises from Cr1 to Cr10. The Imperium sends out the word that Cr10 is now worth Cr1. Short term pain, especially for people that aren't rich and/or "in the know" but long term stability.
That also helps hold down tech advancement. Why invest in something that isn't going to pay off, or if it does pay off, it causes so much inflation your profit is eaten away?
I would guess the 3I resets the value of the Credit every century or two. Say, once the average value of basic labor, however you define that, rises from Cr1 to Cr10. The Imperium sends out the word that Cr10 is now worth Cr1. Short term pain, especially for people that aren't rich and/or "in the know" but long term stability.
That also helps hold down tech advancement. Why invest in something that isn't going to pay off, or if it does pay off, it causes so much inflation your profit is eaten away?
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
That is essentially what several countries have done with their currency. You might want to read about the inflation in the Weimar Republic in Germany around 1930 or so.
Ackehece
SOC-13
I tend to go to the crew rates in T5
1000Cr per month per skill level
a College/university degree grants skill 4 for a major so we can assume that should be considered normal level skill for a educated position at a regular company.
skill 6 with masters and skill 8 with doctorate so we can make the assumption
Educated - 4KCr
Highly Skilled -6KCr
Expert Level -8KCr
this would map to 2KCr per month for regular high school grads. (assumes skills learned on job to skill -2)
if we assume basic skills learned on top of that by other careers... pay climbs steadily (so this is base expected! pay rate)
do we assume a earth north america centric standard 40 hour work week?
if so
12.5 cr per hour would be normal rate.
if we assume they get screwed by a nasty min wage = 1/2 of the expected rate 6.25Cr per hour or less.
pg 696
1000Cr per month per skill level
a College/university degree grants skill 4 for a major so we can assume that should be considered normal level skill for a educated position at a regular company.
skill 6 with masters and skill 8 with doctorate so we can make the assumption
Educated - 4KCr
Highly Skilled -6KCr
Expert Level -8KCr
this would map to 2KCr per month for regular high school grads. (assumes skills learned on job to skill -2)
if we assume basic skills learned on top of that by other careers... pay climbs steadily (so this is base expected! pay rate)
do we assume a earth north america centric standard 40 hour work week?
if so
12.5 cr per hour would be normal rate.
if we assume they get screwed by a nasty min wage = 1/2 of the expected rate 6.25Cr per hour or less.
pg 696
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Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Apparently, moderate inflation is a good thing for modern economies, since it also incentivizes investment, as compared to deflation, where the consumer may start playing a waiting game.
Military procurement doesn't seem affected with an estimated eleven percent per annum inflation increase.
Military procurement doesn't seem affected with an estimated eleven percent per annum inflation increase.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
There is that Striker per capita chart if we want to get all internal rules, cross referenced with the buying rates in those rules vs. the TCS currency exchange rate for taxation.
There is all manner of delicious exposition to be had there as to reconciling those, but I am gathering the OP is focused on converting real world items into their Traveller credits, without messing with that whole local credit thing.
There is all manner of delicious exposition to be had there as to reconciling those, but I am gathering the OP is focused on converting real world items into their Traveller credits, without messing with that whole local credit thing.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I have other ways of converting for local currency, but that would be game specific, along with technology level. That is why I look at using a fixed quantity of gold for the Imperial Credit, such as it is, for local currency conversion.
With lower Tech Level worlds, up to Tech Level 5, having a metal-back currency, Imperials trading on those worlds find things very expensive. Up to 1934, gold was $20.67 cents per ounce in the US. In the UK, the official exchange rate was $4.875 Dollars to the Pound Sterling, so gold was about 4 Pounds, 5 shillings. However, that is what I use in my own universe.
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kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Well now, in Striker terms, the factor would be, it depends.
The Imperial credit converts a LONG way in local Tech 5 credits.
However, buying anything above Tech 5 is even more costly.
It would be like selling beads for getting Manhattan Island and say a bunch of animal skins, but having to pay a steep price in gold to get a full set of muskets plus ammo and repair kits shipped in from Europe.
Buying local tech, you buy like a poobah.
Shipping in laser rifles at Tech 5, you pay like a hermit on the end of a bush pilot delivery in Alaska.
The Striker example has a starport B Tech 6 customer buying a 1000 Cr item from a starport A Tech 8 world, works out to 3750 Cr (plus 20% maintenance per year for every year the higher tech item has to be maintained on a lower tech world).
Reversing the buy, buying the B6 item on an A8 world, would be 266 Cr. While the rules do not have a provision for doing that, I would tend to apply the same 20% maintenance rule for lower tech levels since the ability to shoe horses, repair IC engines or other tech that largely does not exist in a fusion/grav world would be similarly expensive and the realm of rare preservationist specialists.
Think maintenance for WWII flying heritage aircraft or steam locomotives for an example.
Certainly not a perfect model, and I think the idea of using this for normal item purchase gives people the heebie-jeebies, but boy it lets you know in no uncertain terms when you have arrived at the boondocks of space.
Hmm, let's say we were to buy a laser rifle at the local Little Green Men weapon shop after they opened trade with us.
They shipped from an A10 origin to our E8 world.
That's a 5x markup, so 5000 LGM Cr of laser rifle and power pack becomes 25000 local Cr plus 5000 local Cr of maintenance.
Gets REALLY fun if you denominate all interstellar transactions in CrImp, A15.
Although to be fair one should probably use the Striker tables as 'total cost to acquire at end retail point' including all that shipping and broker/middleman cost, and the TCS tables for currency conversion including shipping and passenger fare.
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kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Anyway, the whole ball of worms re: currency and those tables is for another thread, but I do think it has some bearing on your and Aramis' points regarding differing 'local' pricing as a mechanism already around in the rules, at least local in a planetary sense.
Interestingly enough, the E8 to A15 conversion rate is 10:1 in pricing, 2.22:1 currency/tax remittance from TCS, so make of that what you will.
Interestingly enough, the E8 to A15 conversion rate is 10:1 in pricing, 2.22:1 currency/tax remittance from TCS, so make of that what you will.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Actually, to buy that 1903 Springfield, costing $19.61 in 1918 US Dollars, will cost 200 Imperial Credits, assuming 200 Credits to the ounce of gold, or 400 Credits allowing for 100% inflation between 1976 and 2016. No, Imperial Credits do not allow you to buy like a "poobah" in my universe at low Tech Level. And that $0.25 lunch in local currency will cost you 2.5 Credit plus a foreign exchange fee, so make it 3 Credits. And yes, I do have the JTAS article on currency conversions and Trillion Credit Squadron.
Edit Note: I also have Striker, purchased right after in came out, and still in the original, now somewhat water-damaged box. I never did like it.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
<Shrug> I don't think much of gold being any kind of consistent benchmark any more then any other commodity or element, by the early 1900s gold 'wasn't what it was' anyway due to the development of low-grade ore processing, the whole world gold supply increased which relieved pressure on it's demand, and the demand was synthesized in large measure by law anyway.
Gold is more in demand now with bigger populations and economic uncertainties, but the next big gold mine developed can change all that.
We can expect belter strikes, synthetic gold processes, population increases, political favor towards or against it as a currency commodity to alter it's value over the centuries.
CT has the rifle, the specific models as the Springfield M14 7.62mm or 7.62mm Belgian FN FAL, at 220 Cr, so reasonably close to your model, 40 years off but I don't think we inflated near as much to your 1918 reference date and item.
Probably the 'right' benchmark is to use 1977 as the reference ratio of items to credits to dollars, since that would be the moment the valuation was set.
Measuring Worth shows different combos for a 1977 dollar, but roughly 4:1 will do it.
So get ahold of item prices in 1977, figure out the ratio whether 2:1 or 1:1 or 1:3 or whatever, divide current items by 4 and then apply the ratio, and that should do it.
Oh, and I was just looking over the ruleset for your airplane babies. Definite rules for compressors for thin atmo engines. No exotic atmo options.
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