Cybernetics/genetic engineering

[Weaver95]

This might have been beat to death before, but I was wondering how everyone else uses cybernetic/genetic enhancement in thier Traveller games.

Personally, I'm thinking of stealing...er, adapting, some ideas from shadowrun. They've got some pretty good thoughts on genetic/cybernetic enhancement tech. The social/legal consequences would have to be hit the players pretty hard. Not to mention finding a decent shadow clinic to do the work....maybe taking a leaf from shadowrun and it's megacorps might be the way to here as well....cyber up some deniable operatives and use 'em when necessary.

Anyway, just thought I'd ask and see what everyone else does with thier campaigns.

 

[Bishop Odo]

I would go heavy into the social/legal consequences of Cybernetics, but remember players only look for edges and they will moan and complain endless about if there is not a logical reason behind it. I always have been fascinated by this subject and have had similar discursion with player in the past.

Being a unique human has to mean something. In a universe of Aliens, limb replacement, genetic engineering, and robots, there is a question player's feel they can ignore. When do you stop being humans and become a machine, property and a slave, and when is you humanity and uniqueness compromised? Robots and Droids are slaves, when you blur he line between human and machine, you have social stigma. People become uncomfortable because their position in society is threaten. With Traveller this is reflected in the Social Standing stat, but there need to be a strong Role-playing aspect of it. There are anti-robotic movements in Traveller, and labor unions would hate them, after The Era virus I would think there would be more stigma. They would lose jobs, have no credit, couldn't get loans, they would be social outcasts..

In Fantasy RPGs, how many time have you heard of someone who wanted to play a Drow, and yet was bitterly unaware of the social stigma that followed, all they saw was great stats, but no consequences. Role-play the stigma never let it die.

 

[Liam Devlin]

His excellency is right. Such trade offs for "cyber-advantages" should be offset by Social Stigma...The danger in the Virus era-that you might be infected and if not controlled, be a carrier!
Noting some of the draconian quarantine laws of PE's of the era.. they could be shot without trial or incarceration if proven infected. (Laws of Sufren's Polity cited here).

Some of these prejudices were alluded to in the masiilia sector based adventure in "KnightFall"/ MT era.(before Duchess Magaret's faction was deemed an unworthy successor By the GDW powers that were). One of the insert sidebar adventures was a passenger who was "Chromed" from his neck to his toes, and his two "daughters", likewise chromed.

In Maggie's domain, anyone beyond 25% 'artificial" ceased to be human, and was consdered property, like any robot/droid. No job, no vote, you were chattel, and could be bought or sold at whim, like any other commodity in her economic driven Safe zone...

 

[Elliot]

My my Liam what a well read man you are..

Perhaps one of the problems with cybernetics in Traveller is that the CT era was pre-William Gibson and so cybernetics had the ring of a) the bionic man tv series or b) battlestar galactica. Due to game balance it was something GDW seemed to want to avoid (CT was also pretty much anti-gearhead anyway!).

Of course, the fans wanted more and Third Imperium magazine and later Travellers Digest put together some very workable cyber/bionic rules.

However, to restore gamebalance the social stigma thing was added (Despite having a GDW label Knightfall was really a Digest Group adventure) - this made perfect sense as MWM had already substantially written robots out of the picture in the edict of 1 Cleon. Hence cybernetics existed but were frowned upon, rather like mohican haircuts and tattoes are today.

Perhaps (as said elsewhere) is a Traveller's Aide dealing with cybernetics/gene engineering/bionics in the Official TU. This way those that want can have, those that dont, need not!

 

[Scarlett]

The same could be said for the Psionic stigma (forgive me, I'm stating the obvious). Good thread.

Hehe ... in a different thread I mention picturing LD as an "Elliot Gould" type and now I see there's an "Elliot" as well.

Disclaimer: I don't neccesarily picture my online persona as a "Clark Gable" type.

Hi, Elliot ... FLS, here ... old Traveller, visiting new places.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Elliot:
My my Liam what a well read man you are..

As such a man as yer self, Elliot...

Perhaps one of the problems with cybernetics in Traveller is that the CT era was pre-William Gibson and so cybernetics had the ring of a) the bionic man tv series or b) battlestar galactica. Due to game balance it was something GDW seemed to want to avoid (CT was also pretty much anti-gearhead anyway!).

Aye it was. I remember that era too.

Of course, the fans wanted more and Third Imperium magazine and later Travellers Digest put together some very workable cyber/bionic rules.

However, to restore gamebalance the social stigma thing was added (Despite having a GDW label Knightfall was really a Digest Group adventure) - this made perfect sense as MWM had already substantially written robots out of the picture in the edict of 1 Cleon. Hence cybernetics existed but were frowned upon, rather like mohican haircuts and tattoes are today.

Perhaps (as said elsewhere) is a Traveller's Aide dealing with cybernetics/gene engineering/bionics in the Official TU. This way those that want can have, those that dont, need not!

_________________________________________________
Or one of us goes ahead and gets the nod to do so with Hunter & Coy.s blessing. Plenty of writing talent out here on this list (i discount meself out of bias and modesty). A good idea Elliot, it resolves the issue entirely In my view as well, letting the market & GMs decide. (of course, the profit line of runnin this show is another matter entirely..how many copies are they guarnateed to sell, etc etal...)

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Frank Lee Scarlett:
Hehe ... in a different thread I mention picturing LD as an "Elliot Gould" type and now I see there's an "Elliot" as well.

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Why thank you, for the compliment Frank! Nice chattin with you today on the LSCR! Elliot Gould...with a cigar...Hmm. I'm a wee leaner, more like Donald Sutherland

 

[MGibster]

Originally posted by Weaver95:
Anyway, just thought I'd ask and see what everyone else does with thier campaigns.

Genetic technology could rear its head in ways which are immediately tangible to player characters. A society that exercises control over genetics might have a low rate of death at birth, a longer life expectancy, low rate of obesity, and almost no congenital diseases. That's just the effects on the human body, the ramifications go much further when you start talking about food sources, building materials, or other goods.

Personally I think that once we have the ability to grow organs, limbs, and other parts we're not going to see a big demand for cybernetics. In the 80's maybe people thought bionics was a more likely future to cure mangled limbs or a missing heart. Now I think we're more likely to grow nerves, organs, and limbs then we are to build them from mechanical parts.

Marc

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by MGibster:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Weaver95:
Anyway, just thought I'd ask and see what everyone else does with thier campaigns.

Genetic technology could rear its head in ways which are immediately tangible to player characters. A society that exercises control over genetics might have a low rate of death at birth, a longer life expectancy, low rate of obesity, and almost no congenital diseases. That's just the effects on the human body, the ramifications go much further when you start talking about food sources, building materials, or other goods.

Personally I think that once we have the ability to grow organs, limbs, and other parts we're not going to see a big demand for cybernetics. In the 80's maybe people thought bionics was a more likely future to cure mangled limbs or a missing heart. Now I think we're more likely to grow nerves, organs, and limbs then we are to build them from mechanical parts.

Marc</font>[/QUOTE]_______________________________________________
Excellent Points MGibster! In Arkansas too? Where at?

 

[MGibster]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:

Excellent Points MGibster! In Arkansas too? Where at?

I live in Sheridan but I do most of my gaming in Little Rock.

Marc

 

[Weaver95]

Hmm...

well, the Traveller rules make passing mention of nerve refusion tech, which implies some fairly extensive knowledge of genetics and medical technology.

Given the general backstory of the universe tho, it would seem to me that the civilization with the most extensive understanding of the human genome would the the Solomani. Not that the imperium would be slacking off on the matter, but it just seems that the Solomani were playing God with genetics far longer than any other star faring civilization.

I'm thinking that the idea of a social stigma for extensive genetic tampering would be a good idea...but it'd be far more subtle and harder to detect than cybernetic modifications AND very difficult to remove if you manage to find it....not to mention the far reaching abuses that the mega-corps could put such technologies towards....imagine - business is slow this quarter so, engineer a virus to wipe out half a planets corn crop...then offer them the 'cure' at exhorbatant rates and no more cash flow problem. Since you've engineered the virus to cause maximum damange then disintegrate there's no evidence to link you to it. And that's just a crude secenario off the top of my head.

 

[MGibster]

Originally posted by Weaver95:

I'm thinking that the idea of a social stigma for extensive genetic tampering would be a good idea...but it'd be far more subtle and harder to detect than cybernetic modifications AND very difficult to remove if you manage to find it.

I can see this possibly going down two different roads. Those who refuse genetic augmentation may be looked down upon. "You won't screen your child for genetic diseases?" Or perhaps it could be like GATTACA where every employer and school gave genetic test and that determined your future.

On the other hand those who have obvious excessive modifications might also be looked down on by polite society. Kind of like people who have to many tattoos. (Hope I didn't offend the tattoo crowd.)

...not to mention the far reaching abuses that the mega-corps could put such technologies towards....imagine - business is slow this quarter so, engineer a virus to wipe out half a planets corn crop...then offer them the 'cure' at exhorbatant rates and no more cash flow problem.

With the cost and time it would take to develop such a virus I don't think they'd implement such a plan to combat a short term profit problem.

Marc

 

[Bishop Odo]

I hate to fall on clichés, but I would say that it's up to each GM and their MTU design to either create some major social movement against major genetic engineering or allow it. It could be as easy a some dictator creating the Uber-humans and starting a war, Solomani and Vland are going to have different perspectives on this issue also, maybe the fact that ET messed with our genome is disgusting to us, or the realization that metal or biological we are all just machines, to taper with humanity is to tamper with or divinity. Historical and Social movements are the best way to keep the DNA Genie in the bottle. It's like using nukes all the time, Its the mess you have to deal with later that prevents your use today. Making it expensive and using money as leverage over players really is self-defeating to a campaign in the long run. Of course the opposite is true also. if that the type of game you want, go for it.

In MTU, I use a personal data link/ATM credit card, like B5, with your DNA on it for ID and security. It's a little fascist, but a loss of how much personal privacy is worth security. I think, I would allow some limited medical DNA work, as for nano-tech that another issue.

 

[Weaver95]

The solomani as written seem to be a bit hypocritical about genetic engineering. One one hand, they went around uplifting all sorts of species to full intelligence and modified all sorts of colonists for colonial duty on hostile worlds but they were really down on the genetically modified apes and humans during the gene war.

I guess a case could be made that the solomani see themselves as the 'ideal' human already and that further modification wouldn't be helpful to 'the cause'.

I'm of two minds about it tho. I think I can have alot of fun with playing off the solomani as all for genetic modification in the name of The Cause.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Weaver95.

The Solomani dichotmy on the gene issue/ Pan Sophontism, etc. is a great plot device..inherent I might postulate from their confederation form of government(pre-collapse OTU)..stellar balkanization.
I pose this, seeing the Terran movement slowed their war effort-once Terra was regained from the IMperials, and the exhaustive war wore out the will to fight, coupled with political mischief and mayhem at home (Hard Times/ Survival Margin).

The uplifting races was seen as a more palatable effort than dealing with native aliens...sophont dolphins/ orca for water world colonization, etc, as an example.
The Ubermensch problem with genetic enhancement would threaten the common masses, and their governments would react to counter such efforts..but that was after the genii was out...(Look at the old series "Above and Beyond", and the clones inthe military, stigmas, etc...).

 

[Weaver95]

Wait - I'm confused. I thought that the Gene war, and uplifing various races to full intelligence occured years prior to the events leading towards the Rebellion?

Not that I know a heck of alot about the Gene war tho. There was a passing reference to the event in a Rebellion era suppliment on the Solomani and that's all I've seen on the subject. Hell - I bought a copy of 'Rim of Fire' (the gurps suppliment) hoping there'd be more information there on the events of the Gene war and GenAssist but the Jacksonite writers skipped the entire incident.

Personally, I can have a wonderful time playing on the Solomani Rim with genetic engineering and the fallout that uplifting species would generate. In particular, I was thinking of a campaign based on the Solomani missing a few of the engineered 'superhumans', and thier revenge plot against Solsec with the player group caught in the middle.

Of course, any information on the Solomani sphere anyone has is welcome at this end of the Marches....

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Weaver95:
Wait - I'm confused. I thought that the Gene war, and uplifing various races to full intelligence occured years prior to the events leading towards the Rebellion?
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They did, but those events play out in the social-specism/ gene aversion of the Solomani to Ubermensch & aliens later on...set the stage for their Attitudes. I apologize for not being clearer on time references, forgive me.
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Not that I know a heck of alot about the Gene war tho. There was a passing reference to the event in a Rebellion era suppliment on the Solomani and that's all I've seen on the subject. Hell - I bought a copy of 'Rim of Fire' (the gurps suppliment) hoping there'd be more information there on the events of the Gene war and GenAssist but the Jacksonite writers skipped the entire incident.
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Overlooked/ left out/ or missed, this leaves you as a GM plenty of "wiggle room" to interpret play out/ create yer own version of these events..I suggest ye do it to yer taste & TU! Good Luck!

Personally, I can have a wonderful time playing on the Solomani Rim with genetic engineering and the fallout that uplifting species would generate. In particular, I was thinking of a campaign based on the Solomani missing a few of the engineered 'superhumans', and thier revenge plot against Solsec with the player group caught in the middle.

Of course, any information on the Solomani sphere anyone has is welcome at this end of the Marches....

 

[Weaver95]

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Weaver95:
Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

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Yer welcome weaver95!.
Are you a GM? or just trying to get character background ideas on that era?

heretically yours,

 

[Weaver95]

Right now I'm running a T20 game based in the spinward marches.

However, I'm not ruling out either threatening one of my friends to run something or just running a game set in the Solomani sphere at some point.

I have a thing for the solomani. I like the background for them and think there's alot of potential for campaigns in the region. I just can't seem to find much 'canon' stuff for the region tho.