Do Air Rafts make Ground Transpo moot?

[McPerth]

Having grown up and now living in the Chicago area, I keep trying to visualize a half a million air cars trying to occupy the same air space at the same time. It just does not compute. Much as a like H. Beam Piper, I am not sure about air vehicles for everything.

I can imagine it as in SW Phantom menace, where the Capital is depicted with all the flying cars traffic on it.

My guess (maybe quite optimistic) is that different heights for different vectors would make it simpler tan today's ground traffic, as long as traffic control is effective and drivers obbey it (and that probably means serious punishment for those that don't).

In any case, again my guess is that mass or public transport would me how most of the people moves in large metrópolis, while most of those grav vehicles would be for out city travel, mostly where mass transport does not reach.

 

[Whipsnade]

The need for "aero-urban" automatic traffic control and safety has long been one of the constraints I place on the movement of my players. After landing on Regina, Cap'n Blackie and the crew of the Running Boil weren't able to blithely disembark their second hand Vargr grav APC complete with hull-mounted fusion Z gun and flit about Credo on a beer run spreading their unique version of love, hugs, and sunshine.

At a sufficient level of urban density and/or tech level, even ground cars were subject to automatic traffic control.

Tying or linking an air/raft or ground car into the mandatory control net always involved a fee and sometimes required insurance bonds, vehicle inspections, and/or equipment installations.

Getting back to driverless cars, I read recently that researchers have come to realize that pedestrian behavior is going to be a major obstacle. You see, if driverless cars are programmed to stop for all pedestrians in all situations, pedestrians are going to cross roadways whenever and wherever they want and reduce traffic flow to a crawl.

Pedestrians only use marked crossings and follow the direction of lights because they'll be run over and killed if they don't. It's fear and not a desire to follow traffic rules that keeps them crossing when and where they should.

 

[flykiller]

can imagine it as in SW Phantom menace, where the Capital is depicted with all the flying cars traffic on it.

if you consider the number of people who appear to live there, the volume of flying car traffic is less than tiny.

Pedestrians only use marked crossings and follow the direction of lights because they'll be run over and killed if they don't.

the first time I was in london in a taxi a pedestrian stepped out into the road outside of a crosswalk in front of us. the taxi driver accelerated - a lot.

 

[Condottiere]

Jaywalking becomes a felony.

 

[Willie Dewitt]

People still manage to get hit by trains. The crazy and careless exist in huge numbers. For low altitude air cars they better just take pedestrians out of the equation, or the thinning of the heard will skyrocket in cities.

Coruscant seemed to get it right. Cars above, walkways way down below them. Only crashes and emergency landings will kill folk. Hmm. Maybe just have peds walk in reinforced tubes down below.

I imagine like a lot of things in Traveller air traffic control in busy spots will be identical throughout advanced worlds. It's hard enough driving regular cars in foreign countries. Still, sure there will be places similar to spots in the Middle East or Asia, where there isn't two sides of the road and traffic just basically comes at each other.

 

[Timerover51]

Still, sure there will be places similar to spots in the Middle East or Asia, where there isn't two sides of the road and traffic just basically comes at each other.

In Great Britain, the single-track dual carriageway with stone walls on both sides.

 

[Wol]

Given the current fatality rates for directly controlled private vehicles, it may not be of concern if thousands die in air raft accidents evry week. It seems that air rafts combine the accident rates of private vehicles with the survivability of an air crash! Ground transport for large passenger volumes may still be needed. Canals are stil in use for bulk transport.

Perhaps OT, the folowing article on fatality rates for various vehicles including air and rail may be of interest

https://journalistsresource.org/stu...nited-states-transportation-across-modes-time

regards

 

[Condottiere]

You either crash into something, or the gravity modules fail.

Air traffic control and onboard sensors should prevent almost all accidents.

That leaves hacking, overriding automated safety features, lack of maintenance or sabotage.

 

[flykiller]

That leaves hacking, overriding automated safety features, lack of maintenance or sabotage.

heh. so many choices, where to start ....

 

[mike wightman]

sentient computer virus...

 

[nobby-w]

Why we don't have flying cars

Although a character with Grav Vehicle-1 can pilot an air/raft, the books don't make any mention of the certification process to fly one legally. Flying cars do exist. Really. Various folks have attempted to bring them to market off and on since the 1950s.

The problem with a flying car is that, even in the 1950s, you needed about 8 separate licences to fly it and you had to play nicely with air traffic control. This is where they get complicated. The authorities (with some justification) tend to be nervous about large flying objects over populated areas. The idea of a free-for-all where any Tom, Dick or Harry can just hop in a flying car and nip down to the supermarket without filing a flight plan will make them have kittens.

Regulation is the likely outcome of this. One could imagine regular air taxi or bus services licensed through a dispatcher where flight plans, schedules and destinations were uploaded into an air traffic control system. While workflow might be quite streamlined flying in controlled areas above cities would likely require enough i's to be dotted and t's crossed to preclude it from being a casual undertaking.

Out in the countryside, away from controlled areas things might be a bit more free-form. One could imagine in a region with large Belgium-sized farms (like certain more remote parts of Australia) making heavy use of Air/rafts for day to day transport.

 

[RandyB]

Although a character with Grav Vehicle-1 can pilot an air/raft, the books don't make any mention of the certification process to fly one legally. Flying cars do exist. Really. Various folks have attempted to bring them to market off and on since the 1950s.

The problem with a flying car is that, even in the 1950s, you needed about 8 separate licences to fly it and you had to play nicely with air traffic control. This is where they get complicated. The authorities (with some justification) tend to be nervous about large flying objects over populated areas. The idea of a free-for-all where any Tom, Dick or Harry can just hop in a flying car and nip down to the supermarket without filing a flight plan will make them have kittens.

Regulation is the likely outcome of this. One could imagine regular air taxi or bus services licensed through a dispatcher where flight plans, schedules and destinations were uploaded into an air traffic control system. While workflow might be quite streamlined flying in controlled areas above cities would likely require enough i's to be dotted and t's crossed to preclude it from being a casual undertaking.

Out in the countryside, away from controlled areas things might be a bit more free-form. One could imagine in a region with large Belgium-sized farms (like certain more remote parts of Australia) making heavy use of Air/rafts for day to day transport.

Law Level. Already in the game, and easily adaptable to the situation. Thus, the Referee can give their game whatever style or flavor desired, down to a per-world basis.

 

[Condottiere]

You're looking at Uberization with security checks and likely automation, both ground and air.

Private air/rafts may have to park and ride on the metropolitan outskirts.

 

[whulorigan]

But also consider that such air/rafts and other grav vehicles may well have onboard radar or other detection systems standard, and automated collision avoidance systems linked to an on-board dedicated computer system.

Likewise, at the TLs typical for grav vehicles, it may be standard for such vehicles to be linked into a regional traffic control system that predicts and intervenes as necessary (and/or flies the vehicle autonomously in conjunction with the on-board computer). Regions of "outback" of course, might rely on a higher degree of manual control.

 

[whartung]

But also, over thinking the transportation infrastructure can affect the adventure. When starships hummed, and jump drives work, and fusion plants run for weeks and months with nothing but a red and green light and an on off switch, the adventure becomes more interesting.

 

[flykiller]

But also consider that such air/rafts and other grav vehicles may well have onboard radar or other detection systems standard, and automated collision avoidance systems linked to an on-board dedicated computer system.

no way. more likely the airraft gets plugged into the public transportation system and is totally controlled by that system. in fact local "private" airrafts would be disabled from any autonomous operation. you get in, the forward bulkhead is blank of any control feature. "hey transport, I wanna go to the star port." "stand by ... launching." the thing lifts and takes you there.

after, of course, checking to see if you have any back taxes due, and if you have met your health food purchase requirements for the week, and if you have visited your mother this month. "priority tasks take precedence over personal tasks. your first destination will be ...."

 

[flykiller]

Law Level. Already in the game, and easily adaptable to the situation.

easily? consider efate. tech 13, pop 9, law level 0. not to mention zhodani subversion. total free-for-all. imagine a bangkok city street in 3d.

 

[Willie Dewitt]

Are any of these special features such as auto-drive, onboard traffic radar, and ability to be plugged into a traffic control grid system assumed to be part of the standard raft, or do they increase the already high cost of the thing exponentially?

When CT was in it's infancy, I wonder if they took any of this into consideration. That rafts might be a major part of a high tech cities backdrop, with traffic control issues and all. Or if they just imagined them as more or less part of the military industrial machine. Something space adventurer's might adopt to keep in their ship for if they need to get around quickly on an unfamiliar planet or to some remote location or another, not necessarily a big part of city life.

I guess sky traffic has been a part of Sci Fi for a long time, with The Jetson's humorous take on traffic issues maybe being the best known (and, I think, heavily influenced the SW prequels almost cartoonish-level Coruscant skyways). But I really think the creators imagined rafts mostly being just part of the equipment of planetary explorers. But it was only natural that the concept would later be taken to a great level, such as being discussed here (rafts being a major component of daily life on most well-settled planets).

 

[flykiller]

over thinking the transportation infrastructure can affect the adventure.

you seem to mean "interfere with" the adventure. knowing how the transportation infrastructure works can be a great addition to an adventure too.

 

[flykiller]

Are any of these special features such as auto-drive, onboard traffic radar, and ability to be plugged into a traffic control grid system assumed to be part of the standard raft, or do they increase the already high cost of the thing exponentially?

the senators own (or are owned by) the companies that manufacture the goods, and the senators pass laws making them mandatory, then the companies jack up prices. "reliability inspections" doncha know ....

When CT was in it's infancy, I wonder if they took any of this into consideration.

looking over the early books it's clear they took almost nothing at all into consideration other than "this sounds cool!" they just ladled it all into the books and said, "here, have at it."

and here we are, having at it.

"cannon"? piffle.