How ubiquitous are grav vehicles

[rancke]

What the rules originally and largely ignored are the civilian/low end consumer grav vehicles. Which would cost considerably less. Else they'd never be ubiquitous. Well, at least not unless you accept an average TL8 salary of nearly MCr1 per year

Average per capita income for TL8 societies is Cr8,000. That would be CrImp, I guess.

Even at Cr60,000 for an air/raft, you're probably not looking at the middle class having two vehicles per family. Some sort of shared vehicle pool and/or extensive public transportation system is a lot more likely to be the norm.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Most of the costs of the grav belt are going to be the batteries, at least under MT rules...

Now... how does an MT-Legal 4 seat for Cr7240 grab you?
And it has 8.5kW for accessories, and 10 hours of fuel. It's TL9, 1.3G, and makes 300km/h, unstrealined box. It's the 5660 Yugo!
Operational ceiling is about 0.2 Atm... since it lacks compressors.

__MW___ __KL__ __Wt___ _Cr_ Notes
_0.0000 10.120 0.09625 _720 UCP0.75Td Hull AV=1D
_0.1500 _0.030 0.06000 3000 1.5 TT Std Grav
+0.1600 _0.200 0.20000 3000 160kW MHD Turbine 0.007kL/hr
_0.0000 _0.070 0.00000 ___0 Fuel, Hydrocarbons, 10hr
_0.0010 _0.002 0.00100 __50 Headlight
_0.0005 _0.010 0.00500 __70 Electronic Panel, 70CP
_0.0000 _8.000 0.16000 _400 Cramped x4
_0.0000 _0.000 0.60000 ___0 4x 150kg occupants
_0.0000 _1.808 0.00000 ___0 Cargo
======= ====== ======= ==== ============================
+0.0085 _____0 1.12225 7240

 

[Dragoner]

Which makes sense to me, with the caveat that the Air/Raft, GravCarrier, and Speeder are military/high end consumer vehicles. So the military and the rich will have those and only rarely use other vehicle types except in specialized situations.

What the rules originally and largely ignored are the civilian/low end consumer grav vehicles. Which would cost considerably less. Else they'd never be ubiquitous. Well, at least not unless you accept an average TL8 salary of nearly MCr1 per year

In high density population situations, there would not be room for everyone to have a car, just like a lot of places. But if a delux grav car is cr 45,000 (median) then it wouldn't be too out of hand to say a cheap on would only be cr 20,000 and that broken into monthly payments. Have to keep those high tech automated factories rolling. :rofl:

I've always wondered about the high tech world's economies, what do people do for a living if everything is automated? Kurt Vonnegut's "Player Piano"? But that is another discussion.

 

[Dragoner]

 

[aramis]

In high density population situations, there would not be room for everyone to have a car, just like a lot of places. But if a delux grav car is cr 45,000 (median) then it wouldn't be too out of hand to say a cheap on would only be cr 20,000 and that broken into monthly payments. Have to keep those high tech automated factories rolling. :rofl:

I've always wondered about the high tech world's economies, what do people do for a living if everything is automated? Kurt Vonnegut's "Player Piano"? But that is another discussion.

For about KCr 15, one can have a high speed two seater, using MT rules, provided one is limiting it to air-breathing.

_MW_ _KL_ _Wt_ _Cr_ Notes
_0.0000 10.120 0.09625 _1800 UCP0.75Td Hull AV=1D Config=4SL
_0.3000 _0.060 0.12000 _6000 3 TT Std Grav
+0.3200 _0.400 0.40000 _6000 320kW MHD Turbine 0.014kL/hr
_0.0000 _0.140 0.14000 _0 Fuel, Hydrocarbons, 10hr
_0.0010 _0.002 0.00100 _50 Headlight
_0.0005 _0.010 0.00500 _70 Electronic Panel, 70CP
_0.0000 _8.000 0.08000 _200 comfortable x2
_0.0000 _0.000 0.30000 _0 2x 150kg occupants
_0.0000 _1.508 0.00000 _0 Cargo
======= ====== ======= ===== ============================
+0.0085 _0.000 1.14225 14120 2.62G's


Avionics are just too much a power hog, so NOE is still 40kph.

However, it does make 1000 KPH with 2 people and 350kg of cargo... one could also replace most of the cargo with a cramped 3rd seat, instead.

 

[Dragoner]

That is a pretty low NoE speed, though I wonder how much travel is done near the surface? Piper's Star Viking had a paragraph or two on urban planning for grav vehicle societies; there would be enormous savings not having to have any road/highway infrastructure including street lights, signs, bridges, etc. . It makes one wonder about grav trains and other large cargo haulers on high tech worlds.

Thinking about that the speed in town could be increased from the 40 kph, due to the probability that one just links their vehicle into a transit network (self piloting a vehicle is probably illegal to prevent accidental collisions with buildings and such). The central computer would transmit telemetry as well as route to reduce congestion, also I would think there would be breakdown landing pads as well as repulsor/tractor beams in place to prevent accidents.

 

[samuelvss]

I agree that the Air/Raft, as originally described is a robust grav vehicle, for a lot of the reasons mentioned, but also because of the endurance. None of the design rules I have come across would allow "unlimited range and endurance" in the orginal; IIRC, this was reduced to 10 weeks later. Batteries are very expensive in most design system, so another power source must be used.

 

[hdan]

It's possible the hint is in the name itself - air/raft.

Don't compare them to cars, compare them to boats. Cars are too small. Bass boats appear to run around $40kusd, give or take 25%.

 

[HG_B]

What the rules originally and largely ignored are the civilian/low end consumer grav vehicles.

Those rules don't exist in CT or MT. Probably why they are "largely ignored". :rofl:

 

[aramis]

Those rules don't exist in CT or MT. Probably why they are "largely ignored". :rofl:

Hardly... MT has wide ranging sensors... but also includes the basic headlights. A civilian grav vehicle hardly needs full-up avionics...

And both the designs above reflect that. Both take 1 Td as carried craft.

The big problem is that Traveller was not "built from the ground up"...

 

[RainOfSteel]

How ubiquitous are grav vehicles

However much you want them to be.

At TL-8, I have grav vehicles as expensive prototypes. At TL-9/10, they're rare. At 11-13, they're uncommon. At TL-14/15, they're ubiquitous because they're vastly less expensive. On high-pop worlds, all air traffic is almost certainly flown by the planetary navigation/control system.

I keep thinking TL-8 is odd because I thought gravity control was introduced at TL-9, but oh well.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Now... how does an MT-Legal 4 seat for Cr7240 grab you?

I buy one.

 

[Rigel Stardin]

Just posted all the grav vehicles I could find.

One big question: How does a four ton air raft carry 4 tons of cargo and 4 passengers?

All the drawing I've looked at in CT and MT clearly indicate doors for the passangers. Using that as scale, I see no room for cargo, at all.

 

[far-trader]

Just posted all the grav vehicles I could find.

One big question: How does a four ton air raft carry 4 tons of cargo and 4 passengers?

With a Tardis in the back of course...

:devil:

The best I have ever figured out is the 4ton Air/Raft is so called because it requires a 4dton bay to carry it. The open Air/Raft itself displaces less than half that, between 1 and 2dtons. The fully enclosed version would be close to the listed 4dtons. The carry capacity is listed as 4 people plus 4tons which not so obviously might refer to mass rather than volume. So 4000kg. Though in CT 1000kg is 1dton. So we're back where we started.

I'm more convinced there is some kind of mistake in all that though. Just not sure what it is exactly...

...but the easy one I used is:

4.0 dtons Air/Raft with capacity for:

2.0 dtons for 4 seats (0.5dton each taken from acceleration couches in ship design and so include basic comforts and control electronics)
0.4 dtons for Cargo Trunk (by shifting the decimal for the listed 4tons of cargo, presuming it to be an error)
1.6 dtons for 4 grav modules and associated power (0.4 dtons each)

...et voila! An Air/Raft reverse engineered, and the beginings of a design system

 

[Rigel Stardin]

4 passengers weighing 250 pounds = 1 ton.
4 grav nodules = 1.6 tons.
4 acceleration couches = 2 ton.
.4 tons in cargo space. or 800 pounds.

Misc. equipment has to be factor into that as well.

According to MT the Unloaded weight 1.6 tons and the loaded weight is 7.2 CT states it's 4 tons with a lifting capacity of 4 tons cargo. So we're close to CT estimate on the tonage for the Air raft but way off on MT. Because 4 passangers only equal about a ton which would allow the air raft to lift 4.6 tons....

 

[far-trader]

The seat displacement/weight includes the occupants

 

[Rigel Stardin]

If you count the passengers in with the seat displacement, then the MT verison is capable of lifting 5.6 tons of cargo...

Perhaps there is a cargo rack that goes over the passenger section or it slung underneath???

 

[Rigel Stardin]

There is a picture in one of the MT books that shows an air raft flying either above a city or over terrain, in either case, the point here is it only shows 4 passengers. I have always consider the Air Raft to have a very limited cargo area. As some as pointed out, it's like a jeep.

Second thing which has been over looked in all these answers is the fact that Gravitronic engines (nodules) are used as an explosive. One of the Best of JTAS, I have in my foot locker talks about TDX and how it slices through rock and other materials along gravitational lines of force. What government in their right mind would allow hundreds or millions of vehicles with the potental of slicing and dicing it population to bits if there was an accident?

Can you say Hindenburg....

 

[Dragoner]

Probably safer than tanks of gasoline as per normal cars. IMO the air/raft can sling cargo underneath like a chopper.

 

[aramis]

The seat displacement/weight includes the occupants

Not in the MT design sequences... 20kg of seat clearly does NOT include the occupant.