Do Air Rafts make Ground Transpo moot?

[creativehum]

When CT was in it's infancy, I wonder if they took any of this into consideration. That rafts might be a major part of a high tech cities backdrop, with traffic control issues and all. Or if they just imagined them as more or less part of the military industrial machine. Something space adventurer's might adopt to keep in their ship for if they need to get around quickly on an unfamiliar planet or to some remote location or another, not necessarily a big part of city life.

Everyone has to answer these questions for themselves, and cobble together whatever setting for Traveller they want from the often contradictory bits of rules and canon built up over the years.

But my best guess to your question is that, yes, they just imagined them as more or less part of the military industrial machine, and, yes, they are used to get around quickly on an unfamiliar planet or to some remote location or another.

Taking a look at the stories that Miller drew from when creating air rafts, one sees that they show up in many of the tales. Off the top of my head I know are featured regularly in the Dumarest novels and in The Demon Prices novels, as well as other tales. (I'm thinking now of two moments in the two series I just named where the protagonists kill the drivers of air rafts to acquire them. They're not that common.)

In all the cases I can remember, they are owned by powerful families and corporations, or used on sparsely settled worlds or to get to the sparsely settled landscapes away from cities. In general they are used to traverse great distance over terrain that would be more difficult on the ground, and to avoid any dangers: beasts, dangerous men, natural hazards.

The worlds of these novels were often sparsely settled, with plenty of planet "off the grid." Cities themselves often featured incredible automated walks ways, elevator/tube systems, and more.

Again, people should forge details found in the rules into any sort of setting they want. But, like you, I believe the concerns under consideration right now were noted at the time -- in part because the implied setting of the original rules suggested worlds on the lower side of the population scale, more unexplored terrain, worlds that are culturally and economically isolated, and so on.

 

[Condottiere]

Classic would be the Sixties and Seventies point of view, and I think they would appear more as a convenience.

 

[agorski]

Are any of these special features such as auto-drive, onboard traffic radar, and ability to be plugged into a traffic control grid system assumed to be part of the standard raft, or do they increase the already high cost of the thing exponentially?

Grid Control is an option in T5's VehicleMaker.

 

[infojunky]

Grid Control is an option in T5's VehicleMaker.

So what does that mean in terms of CT?

I would just state it was part of your typical Air/Raft's flight control computer..

 

[Willie Dewitt]

knowing how the transportation infrastructure works can be a great addition to an adventure too.

I for sure try to get across to the players as much of the setting flavor as I can wherever they happen to be. Imparting that "hard" Sci Fi feel. As far as traffic issues I would not want them conjuring up images of the skyways of Coruscant in Clone Wars or the sky traffic in Fifth Element, much less The Jetsons. Though there is super high tech things such as jump drives and grav tech, I like everything to tend to look sort of "clunky" even when complex on the inside. And the general populace generally being unable to afford such luxuries to the point crowded city skies.

Outside of perhaps the super rich, super high tech worlds that my players may never even travel too, the most complicated I want traffic to appear would be more like that in Blade Runner Los Angeles. Plenty of ground vehicles going on below, with a certain amount of air traffic that is mostly for police, emergency, and corporate executive. Limited air access. Most adventurers having to leave their raft in the Free Trader and deal with that Santa Monica/405 Freeway traffic if they aren't waiting on a patron from the big office building downtown to send a chopper/grav transport for them

 

[vegas]

There are a few posts in this thread with wrong information on the cost of an air raft, and since I am collecting it for myself, I thought I'd post

LBB3 puts an air raft at Cr600,000. edit: incorrectHowever, this is corrected in B4 p43 to Cr60,000. Then adjust for the 5-15% price decline per TL and you get something like this (I'm using 10% per TL price deflation):

600,000 @ TL8
540,000 @ TL9
486,000 @ TL10
437,400 @ TL11
393,660 @ TL12
354,290 @ TL13
318,860 @ TL14
286,980 @ TL15

edit: incorrect. These are pretty affordable especially at or above Imperial average TL so you have to assume they do become the dominant mode of transportation especially given the big benefits over ground transportation.

Also these prices are *not* reasonably in line with Aramis's custom built designs using Striker.

As for how traffic will be managed, I'd assume a high degree of autonomy in the vehicles with information for area traffic conditions delivered to the vehicle for route optimization and vehicle information monitored centrally for safety. This will be our lives soon enough in first world countries. I figure most children born in America today in urban/suburban environments will never learn to drive, as by the time they turn 16, self-driving cars will dominate for safety and economic reasons. Fewer households will own cars at all given the efficiency of a self-driving Uber. Take that model into the far future.

 

[kilemall]

There are a few posts in this thread with wrong information on the cost of an air raft, and since I am collecting it for myself, I thought I'd post

LBB3 puts an air raft at Cr600,000. However, this is corrected in B4 p43 to Cr60,000.

Don't believe you have that right, at all.

The LBB4 -1/-2 price reductions has to do with CT LBBs 1977 edition. The later editions already have those reduced and so you should not apply it again (assuming you want to stick with the rules, as always your option and privelege).

The 1977 air/raft is 6 MCr, the LBB4 correction and 1981+ editions had them at 600,000 Cr.

You can reality check by applying the -2 to 1981 edition ATV/AFVs and yielding a price of 300/700Cr.

 

[creativehum]

The Consolidated Classic Traveller Errata puts the price of the Air/Raft at Cr600,000 as well.

Clearly this isn't the price that makes sense for everyone's Traveller setting (or even the OTU setting that got developed). But in the original premise for the game, Air/Rafts were not ubiquitous.

It makes sense within the interlocking logic of the implied setting in the original three books. I'm don't think that holds true for explicit setting that got developed.

 

[BlackBat242]

Exactly - B4 was published in 1978 - so the 1/10th price modification on that list applies to 1977B3 prices, not to 1981B3 prices.

Further proof is found in that the Trade and Speculation table in 1981B2 on page 47 line 52 gives a price for air/raft as 6,000,000cr. As the last paragraph on page 48 says that lines 51>56 and 66 are for individual items, this confirms that the original price to which the B4 price modifiers apply is cr6mill each - making cr600k each the correct adjusted price.

 

[vegas]

Well, that is a helpful catch. Fixed the table above. I only own LBB 2e so couldn't make that connection to it being a 1e errata. Unfortunately, the catch brings back the difficulty of trying to reconcile the LBB list price with the Striker costs.

 

[nobby-w]

I find it makes sense to treat an air/raft more like a sort of superior helicopter than a flying car. They still require air traffic control to pilot in congested air space - meaning that there's significant paperwork or on-line applications to file a flight plan, so you can't just hop in it and nip down to the shops.

However, unlike helicopters, they don't have big whirly bits on top so they're much safer in confined, urban environments. Using a fusion plant reduces the fuel requirements so they're considerably cheaper to run.

Being a flying machine, however, they're subject to more stringent warrant-of-fitness licensing, registration, air traffic control and other similar bureaucracy. If the Mos Eisely licensing authority has a rep for dodgy warrants, will the authorities on Trin really accept the fitness inspection certificate you got there?

Maybe you need to carry a pickup truck in the cargo bay for routine errands - at least they'll let you drive that without a week's lead time to get it re-certified by the local authorities.

 

[infojunky]

Well, that is a helpful catch. Fixed the table above. I only own LBB 2e so couldn't make that connection to it being a 1e errata. Unfortunately, the catch brings back the difficulty of trying to reconcile the LBB list price with the Striker costs.

Totally irrespective of the errata over the years I have reduced the cost of Grav vehicles by an order of magnitude, i.e. to the 10s of thousands instead of the 100s of thousands...

 

[Condottiere]

It really comes down to the cost of the grav modules.

 

[vegas]

Still researching this topic for my own purposes and bumped into a similar thread How ubiquitous are grav vehicles from 5 years back and a lot of the same ground is covered, but a bit more useful, if incongruous, data is uncovered. Especially this quote:

"Grav Vehicles: Grav vehicles are the main transportation of a high technology
society. Beyond tech level 10, other vehicle types are rarely seen except in a few specialized situations."

Bk 3(1981), pg22.

Squaring that quote with the cost and income levels is difficult. I think far trader is probably on to the most promising approach: the air/raft listed is a rugged, adventure-class vehicle and there are lots of cheaper consumer oriented grav vehicles around but not listed.

 

[whulorigan]

Still researching this topic for my own purposes and bumped into a similar thread How ubiquitous are grav vehicles from 5 years back and a lot of the same ground is covered, but a bit more useful, if incongruous, data is uncovered. Especially this quote:

"Grav Vehicles: Grav vehicles are the main transportation of a high technology
society. Beyond tech level 10, other vehicle types are rarely seen except in a few specialized situations."

Bk 3(1981), pg22.

Squaring that quote with the cost and income levels is difficult. I think far trader is probably on to the most promising approach: the air/raft listed is a rugged, adventure-class vehicle and there are lots of cheaper consumer oriented grav vehicles around but not listed.

Or alternatively, high tech societies use grav vehicles run by a transportation or rental authority, similar to taxicab or rental-car service today. But for those who want or need their own, the price is listed (and that may be for a "ruggedized" version, as mentioned above).

In the modern day, international transport is primarily by jetliner, yet most individuals do not own a private jet.

 

[vegas]

Sure, including Uber-esque type service, especially a 100% automated vehicle, makes sense too.

 

[aramis]

Still researching this topic for my own purposes and bumped into a similar thread How ubiquitous are grav vehicles from 5 years back and a lot of the same ground is covered, but a bit more useful, if incongruous, data is uncovered. Especially this quote:

"Grav Vehicles: Grav vehicles are the main transportation of a high technology
society. Beyond tech level 10, other vehicle types are rarely seen except in a few specialized situations."

Bk 3(1981), pg22.

Squaring that quote with the cost and income levels is difficult. I think far trader is probably on to the most promising approach: the air/raft listed is a rugged, adventure-class vehicle and there are lots of cheaper consumer oriented grav vehicles around but not listed.

Note that, using striker, I was able to get USEFUL at TL8 for just over MCr1.1..

But striker has a few fatal flaws - like a minimum armor thick enough to be structural, and no provisions for unarmored frame+skin models.


If we dropall but the bottom armor, we can cut about 1/5 the armor mass... but armor mass isn't the issue.

The issue is Striker power plants and batteries are military grade with military pricing...


So, let's up-TL that Grav SUV I did on page 1...

12 kl	0 tonnes	0 cr	Hull dimensions
0	0	0	Suspension
9.6			Radical SL front
1	0.2	100	1 crew seats
0.085	0.068	136	Armor, .25cm, soft steel
0.2	0.6	40,000	0.6 MW TL13 Fusion
0.2	0.14	{1,000}	Fuel, Fusion. 200L at 0.9 L per hour, 222.222 hours
0.12	0.24	12,000	6 T Thrust Gravitics
3.495	3.495		cargo
4.5	0.6		3 passenger
	5.343	52,236	Total

6/5.343=1.12G = 0.12 G_Maneuver = about 144 kph, 40 in NOE, uncontrolled, laden.
No cargo? 3.246 G's... about 2400 kph.
9.25 days op fuel.
Laden range: 32,000 km. Unladen range, more than 320,000 km.
Cost per km: Around Cr0.03 per km for fuel,
Maintenance annual: Cr53... for under 0.00004 per km

At typical commuter rates, expect half the op time to be NOE, and thus about 3x the op cost.
Ooops... noticed the 1 kL minimum. But it's above the MT min vol for a TL13 PP - needs to double in size (and cost) due to scale inefficiencies, tho.
Multiply it all by 5 and you get a grav bus...

 

[BlackBat242]

"Grav Vehicles: Grav vehicles are the main transportation of a high technology
society. Beyond tech level 10, other vehicle types are rarely seen except in a few specialized situations."

Bk 3(1981), pg22.

Squaring that quote with the cost and income levels is difficult. I think far trader is probably on to the most promising approach: the air/raft listed is a rugged, adventure-class vehicle and there are lots of cheaper consumer oriented grav vehicles around but not listed.

Yep - the LBB air/raft is the HMMWV* of grav vehicles, where as most Traveller citizens own Jeep Cherokee*-type grav vehicles.

HMMWV: $56,000 (1987 price) for base model, $160,000 (2010 price) for up-armored base model ($70,000 for non-armored 2010 base model)

Jeep Cherokee: $9,500 (1987 price) for base model (2-door, 4-cyl engine, 2wd)


Note that unarmored surplus base-model HMMWVs (1990s production) are now being sold to the general public for $10,000 (for "off-road use only" - not license-able for street/highway use).