Emergency Situations and Responses II

[Hal]

After seeing how much of a drift occurred in the thread, I decided it was best to restart it and see if people are interested in working WITHIN the confines of the Traveller Universe, or if they want to let THIS thread drift as well...

Simply put...


Traveller as a universe, postulates that we have star-ships. It also postulates that the Third Imperium controls the space between worlds, and that we have governmental agencies such as the Star Port Authority as well as the Scouts, as well as other various organizations. That having been said - let us try to describe what the problems with space travel are, and how to possibly engage in pro-active behaviors, or if not pro-active, then re-active.

Case in point: At any given point in time, any star ship can in theory, achieve jump-36. In instances where the ship exits into deep space, how can the crew survive long enough for a rescue? If the answer is "they can't", then what can be done to MAXIMIZE their success of rescue despite all the doom-sayers saying "Nay!". For instance? Scout ships could be engaged in depositing automated stations whose task is geared towards receiving radio signals on a given frequency. Scout ships with the proper jump legs can perhaps go to these automated systems and verify that there have been no "SOS" signals in the last year. These "Stations" would be automated to the point where they should be able to operate a year or ten at a time without major maintenance. Occasionally, something goes wrong, and the stations need to be repaired. In other instances, someone might think "Hey, let's jump into a location and STEAL the hardware for our own use!" Then there are those pirate scum who might deliberately destroy these stations - or not. After all, WHY would they bother?

So, this thread's aim will be slightly different than the other original thread. Postulate a problem, post a solution. Example? Viral attack on members of the ship? All personnel are placed in low berth isolation on a one by one basis as they succumb to the disease. If this occurs during jump itself, then the ship's autopilot is set to decelerate to achieve orbit around the target sun, and begin to broadcast an SOS indicating that the ship is a plague ship in need of medical help.

So, forget about trying to rationalize whether space ships and ocean going ships have any relevant parallel or not, just step into the Traveller universe as stated to exist in ANY of the Traveller Universe game systems (be it CT, MT, TNE, T4, GT, MGT, T20, or T5 (forgive me if I left any version of Traveller out of the list above). Then imagine "this emergency has just occurred on MY ship! How do I handle this, and how do I HOPE that someone can come to my rescue?" If needed? Pick an actual location from any of the maps listed in the Traveller universe (Spinward Marches, Milleu Zero, etc). Then make a point on how you would like to think that these "emergency response systems" might work.

 

[HG_B]

Case in point: At any given point in time, any star ship can in theory, achieve jump-36.

IF I remember correctly, in MT & MgT that is not the case. One has to go out of their way to have conditions needed to pull off that kind of mis-jump...

 

[MCEvans]

Drift?

I don't feel that the other thread drifted givin that the the topic is very broad. In going through the various posts. Several very good survival ideas were mentioned and you have to mine for those 'nuggets' of gold out of the dross of disagreements and strange totally seemingly unrelated comments for there might be 'nuggets' of silver that need to be fleshed out.

If you start with a broad topic expect a shotgun of responses. If you have a specific situation in mind give that.

As for location of ship there are three general areas; open hex, inner system & outer system. All three have different on-board responses, and IMO survival chances.

As for types of emergency problems again three general areas; environmental, mechanical & communication. You can have a mix but each one has a different set of protocols and would have a priority over another.

So if you would like to prevent "drift" be specific. General questions will give you many different responses. Even with the suggestion of give a situation and give a solution will cause drift as people will pick a part the solution with RW examples of why that could not work and such.

As for me from the other thread, I found many 'nuggets' of silver that I could flesh out and use IMTU, and I will go out on a limb and say other have also. If you have not found what are YOU looking for specifically, give us the scenario and we will then give you more than enough possible solutions.

If I'm off base see sig.

 

[Hal]

This is from page 33 of the player's manual under the heading of "TO ENGAGE JUMP DRIVE":

"Major: A jump relativity error occurs, and, in addition, the ship misjumps. Throw 1D for the number of dice to throw, then throw that number of dice to determine the distance of the misjump in hexes; finally, throw 1 D to determine the direction of the misjump"

I am not familiar with Mongoose's Traveller, but I will leave that for someone else.

So, for CT, MT, GT at least, the 36 parsec distance issue can come into play. More than likely, the 36 parsec misjump will be highly unlikely.

None the less, misjumps occur not only when one is using unrefined fuel, or is within 100 planetary diameters of the world when jumping (but greater than 10 planetary diameters), but it can also occur (at least in CT) when one misses the annual maintenance or one is understaffed with the proper number of engineers.

Now - if one could determine just how big the batteries have to be for use with low berths (say using striker perhaps?) for any given period of time, it might prove to be interesting. The biggest issue is that CT never quantified how much energy those low berths take.

When I look in T4, I find that a Low Berth requires .001 Megawatts to function. When I look into T3 (Traveller the New Era), I find the following on page 368:

"Passenger Accommodations: 8xSmall Stateroom (0.0005 MW ea.), 8xLow Berth (0.001 MW ea.)"

MT page 82 of the REFEREE'S MANUAL indicates that the energy required for a low berth is listed as being .001 energy for an ordinary low berth, or .002 for an emergency low berth. The difference being, the Emergency Low Berth can hold up to 4 people.

Using STRIKER - it lists that the energy density for any given battery depends upon TL, but at TL 12, the energy density is equal to 4 Megawatt Seconds per Kilogram, and the volume is .001 cubic meter per kilogram. Since the low berth requires .001 megawatts, a single kilogram of battery will last 4000 seconds per kilogram of battery. Doing rough back of envelope calculations - assuming that .001 has become the standard energy cost since MT onwards (and thus PERHAPS backwards compatable with CT via STRIKER), we would get a total of 4 million seconds worth of energy per cubic meter of battery (assuming TL 12). Consequently, a dton of battery would carry a total of 13.5 x 4 million seconds, or approximately 625 days worth of low berth operations.

Note: Battery rules for MegaTraveller are NOT the same rules as for STRIKER (they seem to be LESS efficient than Striker rules for some reason).

In any event, I will leave this for another time as far as doing further calculations for creating long-term occupation low berths as a means for survival. It may very well be, that long term occupation low berths are not feasible in CT, MT, T3, T4, or T5. In GURPS, it is feasible. In MGT - I can't say (I don't have enough of the books to be able to determine it).

So, have at it

 

[HG_B]

So, for CT, MT, GT at least, the 36 parsec distance issue can come into play. More than likely, the 36 parsec misjump will be highly unlikely.

One must REALLY screw to get that. You CANNOT mis-jump if the ship is operated "normally". So yes, if the ship captain/master is an idiot, it can happen. But, with that kind of incompetence you can also run smack into a LGG doing 1,000 Km/sec...

 

[Hal]

I don't feel that the other thread drifted givin that the the topic is very broad. In going through the various posts. Several very good survival ideas were mentioned and you have to mine for those 'nuggets' of gold out of the dross of disagreements and strange totally seemingly unrelated comments for there might be 'nuggets' of silver that need to be fleshed out.

If you start with a broad topic expect a shotgun of responses. If you have a specific situation in mind give that.

As for location of ship there are three general areas; open hex, inner system & outer system. All three have different on-board responses, and IMO survival chances.

As for types of emergency problems again three general areas; environmental, mechanical & communication. You can have a mix but each one has a different set of protocols and would have a priority over another.

So if you would like to prevent "drift" be specific. General questions will give you many different responses. Even with the suggestion of give a situation and give a solution will cause drift as people will pick a part the solution with RW examples of why that could not work and such.

As for me from the other thread, I found many 'nuggets' of silver that I could flesh out and use IMTU, and I will go out on a limb and say other have also. If you have not found what are YOU looking for specifically, give us the scenario and we will then give you more than enough possible solutions.

If I'm off base see sig.

Hi McEvans,
Topic drift is always the bane of any thread. The thread title should have been the clue to seek out what emergency situations may occur and what responses are available for said emergencies. Hi-jacking might be one. Unexpected explosions might be another. Medical emergencies might be another. MisJump might be another. I focused on Misjumps because that one is seemingly a death sentence for most ships should they find themselves in the deep of space with no planets or such nearby. In the event that a ship is actually lost - thanks to the rules for power plant fuel usage for CT, and MT - not to mention the others, we find that without power, there can be no sustained life support, and hence, the loss of lives. My purpose here isn't to limit things necessarily to Misjumps, but to get people thinking about what happens in an emergency, and what the responses should or would be. If a ship has a malfunction while in normal space just outside 100 planetary diameters - does it make sense to worry about long term search and rescue? Probably not. If a ship enters into jump space, and some yahoo turns off the power plant that maintains the jump bubble/drive - then that ship likely disappears and is never heard from again.

If someone has a medical emergency, and everyone goes into emergency low berths, and the ship exits into normal space - what happens next?

So - put your caps on. Place yourself in the postion of the starship captain, and try to resolve the issue without losing your entire crew and passengers.

 

[Hal]

One must REALLY screw to get that. You CANNOT mis-jump if the ship is operated "normally". So yes, if the ship captain/master is an idiot, it can happen. But, with that kind of incompetence you can also run smack into a LGG doing 1,000 Km/sec...

You can also find yourself about to be boarded by a pirate and deliberately jump while within 100 diameters - all in an effort to get away from the pirate. Then there are those who push the ship to the limit (being player characters and thus, in some cases, idiots!) and find themselves losing the gamble and having to watch as the ship grows cold due to all fuel being consumed and life support no longer being available. END OF STORY. Time to draw up new characters...

Now - take it one step further. What happens to those ships that never arrive? They're written off or perhaps even worse, placed on the skip-trace report. So, let's say that you're a salvage operator and you have a seeker class 100 dton ship. You figure "hey, the ship probably didn't end up anywhere in habitable space, and probably is derelict in deep space. Let's go hunting for the derelict!" So - how do you go hunt for the derelict? With luck, the derelict ship sent out a transmission knowing that they would never be found in time. So, maybe you can place radio receivers in deep space in a few nearby deep space parsecs near the worlds in question. Maybe the distance is only 8 parsecs from the original world. How long would it take for you to place even ONE or TWO radio receivers in each deep space location? Would it be feasible to do so? Would it be worth the time and effort to hunt down the derelicts if they're worth between 20 MCr to 110 MCr (depending upon the size of the ship)?

Now, that's just for misjumps. How often do those occur? If using GURPS TRAVELLER, they occur FAR too often! What are the rules in the other game systems? How often do misjumps occur?

 

[CosmicGamer]

Emergency: Lack of breathable air

Decompression, life support failure, disease contaminated environment... whatever the reason.

Response:
Initiate emergency air systems as necessary to provide air to everyone possible.
Fix the problem.

Preparation and ship design notes:
Multiple backup air supplies.

Emergency air tank(s).

Even if the ship for some reason can not recycle the air it may still be able to create large amounts of clean breathable air via water electrolysis. Certain key locations, like the bridge, could have breathing tubes hooked into this system.

Another source of oxygen could be future tech versions of chemical oxygen generators. This could be designed for hours of operation like current day airliner airbag systems, a days worth of oxygen like on the ISS, or more.

When the above, and other backup systems are unavailable or consumed:
Vacc suits and shipboard versions of the habitat module (life-support for six occupants for one week) for key personnel.

Low berths for anyone not necessary. Fast drug if there are not enough low berths for anyone not necessary.

 

[HG_B]

Let's go hunting for the derelict!" So - how do you go hunt for the derelict? With luck, the derelict ship sent out a transmission knowing that they would never be found in time. So, maybe you can place radio receivers in deep space in a few nearby deep space parsecs near the worlds in question.

Actually, at those TL's a ship in deep space could direct a powerful enough MASER transmission towards the nearest inhabited system that would be easily picked up. So, the only other thing is having ELB's with nuke batteries with a half life of at least 10 yrs...

 

[MCEvans]

Cool Mis-jumps

As you have said if it happens during Jump - PP failure and so on your :toast:
The question now is where you come out, and if you want to have fun when :devil:.
Three areas: Inner system - no problem, Outer system - semi major problem, instead of hours + out you maybe day or weeks from help. Solution - seed message head for inner system and go on rations, most mis-jumps include about of jump sickness so all aboard are already fore warned. Unless the system you jump into is pre-space flight or interdicted a rescue/supply ship could meet you within a weekish.
Open hex - the question arises is there the possibility that a ship may purposely enter the hex or not. If yes like an open hex that is between two system hexes so that J1 ships with extra fuel can make the J2 then I would give the chance of being spotted between 1/50 and 1/100 per week based on traffic and then expect a rescue ship in 2-3 weeks. If between systems that are J3 or more apart then being spotted between 1/50 and 1/100 per 2 weeks based on traffic. If J2+ from any single system then being spotted between 1/100 and 1/1000 per month based on traffic, if any.
If YTU has j-torps :file_28: then rescue can :devil: be 2-3 weeks away. If not please notify next of kin and hope your will was up to date.

 

[aramis]

To get a Major Mishap in MT requires rolling 11+ on the mishap, which requires a failure by 2+ and having engaged in risky behavior (unrefined fuel, or inside 100 diameters), or a natural 2 that fails.

And, given that the expected DM of +2 for an ordinary engineer (Skill 1, stat 5-9) and a Routine Task (7+), getting the exceptional failure is a 1/12 chance.

If not taking the extra time, 2/3 of the mishaps are 2d, 1/3rd of the mishaps are 3d...

2/36 * 18/216 = 36/7776
1/36 * 108/216 =108/7776

144/7776 =1/54

with ordinary skill engineer, and no hazardous behavior, a 2d mishap occurs on a natural 2. 1/36 * 18/36= 18/7776 = 1/432 chance of misjump.

Then, 36 is a 1/6 chance of 6d, then a 1/46656 chance of 36 on those 6d...
1/(432*6*46656)=1/120932352
Roughly 9 in a billion jumps, and you can't reduce it below that rate.

Let's see... 440 worlds in the marches. Probably an average of 20 ships per day per world... at least 3.2million jumps per year. At least one 36 parsec misjump per 40 years, and that without any stupid practices.

Get stupid, however, and there is a chance of going BOOM!

 

[Carlobrand]

...Case in point: At any given point in time, any star ship can in theory, achieve jump-36. In instances where the ship exits into deep space, how can the crew survive long enough for a rescue? If the answer is "they can't", then what can be done to MAXIMIZE their success of rescue despite all the doom-sayers saying "Nay!". ...

DOOM! DOOOOOOOOM! :devil:

That's always fun.

It's also fun to be wrong sometimes. I was pretty certain the poor saps were dead as doornails. However, amidst some of that "drift," we realized that the game offers very small fusion plants, that a ship carries a lot of fuel, and that the two taken together can provide power for a set of low berths for a very, very long time - even as much as years. In MegaTrav, ships also carry fairly powerful radios, and passive sensor systems can detect emanations as far away as two parsecs.

A ship with low berths powered by a little emergency power plant fueled from the ship's fuel tanks, it's radio similarly powered, could sit and broadcast for as long as its fuel held out and the equipment continued to function. Smallest TL15 microreactor's 90 liters, generates 0.135Mw using 0.81 liters of fuel per hour, cost Cr18,000, can power up to 60 ELBs and a 1000-AU range radio beacon for 23 months on 1 dTon of fuel, more available fuel, longer duration. If you find yourself in deep space, you've got fair odds of being within a parsec of a world with some spacefaring capability - or at least one that can communicate with such a world.

Figure 1 1/2 to 2 years for the signal to get picked up by a neighboring world, they'd spend some time triangulating then jump a rescue ship out to the coordinates, something with fuel for the return trip. Coordinates are likely to be rough, but these people have been waiting a couple years - a week or two off by maneuver drive isn't going to make things worse for them. Either that TL15 microplant worked, or it broke down and they didn't make it. At least it's a chance.

Few if any canon ships have ELBs, but a shrewd captain installing a couple or three in a corner of the cargo bay does not represent much of a difficulty. One can either call the microplant the ship's standard emergency backup power or make them purchase it separately; depends on how you want things to work in your TU.

 

[Patron Zero]

Perhaps it's been overlooked by myself in previous discussions or just not mentioned but here goes.

Seems a good idea to have a ship, regardless of the size, outfitted with rescue 'buoys' or some like device that operates as a deployable radio transmitter to either relay or repeat a distress call.

Ideally such would feature the capacity to enter-exit jump space, return to the point of origin or the destination the stricken vessel was bound for, and summon help. Likely a costly item restricted to high-end starships or military craft if such could be allowed under the general rules of the game itself.

Another general application for a 'buoy' would be to warn other ships of any navigational hazards encountered in 'local' space, uncharted asteroids, wreckage-debris from a disaster or battle, etc, would fit the warranting of such.

 

[rancke]

with ordinary skill engineer, and no hazardous behavior, a 2d mishap occurs on a natural 2. 1/36 * 18/36= 18/7776 = 1/432 chance of misjump.

Just because player characters and interesting NPCs (i.e. the ones that interact with PCs) suffer a mishap on a natural 2 doesn't mean that the actual statistical chance of a mishap is 1 in 36 "in reality". I'd put it much lower myself. One in a thousand, perhaps.


Hans

 

[Carlobrand]

Just because player characters and interesting NPCs (i.e. the ones that interact with PCs) suffer a mishap on a natural 2 doesn't mean that the actual statistical chance of a mishap is 1 in 36 "in reality". I'd put it much lower myself. One in a thousand, perhaps.


Hans

That would depend on whether you want a realistic universe or a dramatic universe. The game designers, by mandating such a relatively high chance of mishap, clearly favor a dramatic universe. Kinda makes me wonder how their infants survive to adulthood, but it makes for much more entertaining television - I mean, roleplaying.

 

[rancke]

That would depend on whether you want a realistic universe or a dramatic universe. The game designers, by mandating such a relatively high chance of mishap, clearly favor a dramatic universe. Kinda makes me wonder how their infants survive to adulthood, but it makes for much more entertaining television - I mean, roleplaying.

I want dramatic stories in a realistic universe. You know, like most good action/adventure stories (and I employ the weasel word 'most' just to avoid people bringing up a good action/adventure story where the odds are dramatic for everyone -- I doubt something like that exists, but I don't want to derail the discussion into that track). Main characters in action/adventure stories regularily beat the odds. The easiest way to emulate that is rules that change the odds for the main characters without mandating that the odds are changed for the entire population. And that's how infants survive to adulthood.


Hans

 

[Ran Targas]

A couple of thoughts:

1. It's a long way from shore - if you mis-jump 36 parsecs from civilization, it will take over 100 years for your piddly signal to reach anyone who might be able to hear it. You better be ready to cuddle up in your low berth with a really good book cause its gonna be a while. Even if multiple someones are looking for you, the odds are pretty long they will never even hear your beacon. After all, space is really, really big and your Type S is really, really small. Even if you were able to increase your radio and light signature to 10 times its size, you'd be still pretty darn small.

2. It's all about power - Trav ships can't recycle diddly without power, especially for what could be a very long time. You need a long term power source if you're in this for the long haul. Hopefully a stranded ship could limp into a semi-stable orbit around a star, deploy some effective solar collectors, and everyone hibernates until help arrives, if they ever do. Otherwise you're stuck drifting until the batteries eventually fail. Harken back to the opening to Aliens with the salvagers finding Ripley in her tube.

 

[whulorigan]

So, for CT, MT, GT at least, the 36 parsec distance issue can come into play. More than likely, the 36 parsec misjump will be highly unlikely.

None the less, misjumps occur not only when one is using unrefined fuel, or is within 100 planetary diameters of the world when jumping (but greater than 10 planetary diameters), but it can also occur (at least in CT) when one misses the annual maintenance or one is understaffed with the proper number of engineers.

One must REALLY screw to get that. You CANNOT mis-jump if the ship is operated "normally". So yes, if the ship captain/master is an idiot, it can happen. But, with that kind of incompetence you can also run smack into a LGG doing 1,000 Km/sec...

Not necessarily. I think most people who have played Traveller can think of situations in which either the Annual Maintenance got delayed beyond the Ship Master's control, or (even more commonly) a ship is "deprived" of one or two of its normal compliment of Engineers thru events that occur during the course of a campaign, or has to risk a jump for survival sake within the 100D limit.

There are Ship Master's out there who ARE stupid (trying to save a couple Credits here and there thru dubious practices), but there are other reasons than stupidity that might cause a higher likely hood of misjump. The rules are giving common reasons for a higher likelihood of misjump. They do not take into account any DMs due to local conditions the GM might impose for specific circumstances which the Captain (PC or NPC) may or may not be aware of.

 

[whulorigan]

DOOM! DOOOOOOOOM! :devil:

That's always fun.

It's also fun to be wrong sometimes. I was pretty certain the poor saps were dead as doornails. However, amidst some of that "drift," we realized that the game offers very small fusion plants, that a ship carries a lot of fuel, and that the two taken together can provide power for a set of low berths for a very, very long time - even as much as years. In MegaTrav, ships also carry fairly powerful radios, and passive sensor systems can detect emanations as far away as two parsecs.

A ship with low berths powered by a little emergency power plant fueled from the ship's fuel tanks, it's radio similarly powered, could sit and broadcast for as long as its fuel held out and the equipment continued to function. Smallest TL15 microreactor's 90 liters, generates 0.135Mw using 0.81 liters of fuel per hour, cost Cr18,000, can power up to 60 ELBs and a 1000-AU range radio beacon for 23 months on 1 dTon of fuel, more available fuel, longer duration. If you find yourself in deep space, you've got fair odds of being within a parsec of a world with some spacefaring capability - or at least one that can communicate with such a world.

Figure 1 1/2 to 2 years for the signal to get picked up by a neighboring world, they'd spend some time triangulating then jump a rescue ship out to the coordinates, something with fuel for the return trip. Coordinates are likely to be rough, but these people have been waiting a couple years - a week or two off by maneuver drive isn't going to make things worse for them. Either that TL15 microplant worked, or it broke down and they didn't make it. At least it's a chance.

Few if any canon ships have ELBs, but a shrewd captain installing a couple or three in a corner of the cargo bay does not represent much of a difficulty. One can either call the microplant the ship's standard emergency backup power or make them purchase it separately; depends on how you want things to work in your TU.

Which brings up two considerations in light of the OP:

1) Should most Jump-Ship designs include ELBs as standard back-up emergency devices (just in case);

2) Should most Jump-Ships be designed with a small "reserve" of Power Plant fuel that does not EVER get touched except in emergency situations. This would not be unprecedented in modern nautical/aeronautic practices.

​

Remember, Humaniti has been in space for 10,000 years and has learned a thing or two concerning emergency preparedness procedures.

 

[Kyron]

i cannot remember if there is any hint on how much power an ELB needs. In my ship designs i use ELBs with RTGs and an emergency radio also powered by RTG. So if you misjump you may sit there for years until rescue can arrive or you can coast inward if you are sitting on the fringe of a system.