Errata - that difficult subject

[DonM]

Actually, having read some old TML postings, I'm leaning towards the AM missile being identical to the nuke, except dampers don't work, just proton screens.

Found a cut-n-paste error in the Mustering Out tables over the weekend; the Diplomat Cash Table is wrong -- it's a reprint of the Army Cash Table (from the same position on the earlier page).

And I found some notes from an old DGPer about the basic Scout skill tables missing Survey and Survival.

And that note pointed out to me that I've been generating Scouts wrong in MT for years. The first Advanced Education table for Scouts has a roll of 5 being "Spl Cbt". Now for some reason I've always used Space Combat there, but this note says to change Special Combat to Space Combat, since its CT place was Gunnery originally, and Scouts shouldn't be running around in Battle Dress (while starving on a low-tech world cause they don't get Survival).

It's amazing what you can find stored on the web and on these old HIWG cds.

Anyway, it's nice to konw I was doing it right, but I've had a few Scout characters who would have liked to have had some BD training

Helps with first contact...

Also, Nick sent me the notes on that Buggy, but it's TL 11, and all the grav designs in the IE are TL 15. So, might just have to design a TL 15 version of that TL 11 beastie in the 101 Vehicles book.

Finally, a new question: What kind of bonus for receiving a corsair does a letter of marque give a Pirate character?

 

[Nick Nova]

DonM wrote:
Actually, having read some old TML postings, I'm leaning towards the AM missile being identical to the nuke, except dampers don't work, just proton screens.

Don, I would love to peruse those posts. Any chance of getting a link or even just a date for them?

TheEngineer wrote:
Anyway I fear other interpretations - even if they would make both technological and rule wise sense, like Commander Drax note - would represent a rule extension with house rule character.

I have no problem with AM missiles being treated the same as nukes that can't be touched by dampers. Problem is - and this is why I have raised the issue on this errata thread - they are not treated as nukes in the rules. Nukes get +6 on the Surface Damage Table. AM missiles get nothing. Nada. Zip. They are essentially High Explosive missiles that also do some radiation damage, nothing more. That can't be right. Certainly wouldn't be worth the Cr200,000 per missile cost.

Seems to me that this was a simple omission from the 'DMs For Damage Tables' list on page 94 of the Referee's Manual. Wheather the DM is +6, +8 or something else, it really should be corrected - IMHO. Which brings me back to the question, what is the correct DM?

DonM wrote:
Finally, a new question: What kind of bonus for receiving a corsair does a letter of marque give a Pirate character?

I would assume a bonus of +1 for each receipt of a letter. Kind of a backwards way of getting a corsair though, since there is not much point in having a letter of marque unless one already has a ship.

DonM wrote:
all the grav designs in the IE are TL 15

Have you considered that the TL listings for grav vehicles (and for starships) in the IE may be wrong? I find it suspicious that they are ALL listed at TL 15.

When I tried to run the MT design sequence for the Type S Scout ship using the data in the IE, the ship ended up with almost 20 dtons of unused space! That's an awful lot of waste, even for the Scout Service. Of course most of that excess diasppears at lower Tech levels with their less efficient power plants. That's when I concluded that some, if not all of the TLs listed were probably typos. (Actually, the Type A Free Trader works out pretty well at TL 15).

Don't know if that helps you at all... probably just made it worse again didn't I? I'll be quite now...

 

[DonM]

On the posts, get your hands on a copy of the HIWG cd, and search the GDW-Beta, Xboat and TML collections for the search words "antimatter missile" and "fusion rocket".

I believe it's the 96 Xboat, and the 92 TML sections that were the most interesting.

The GDW-Beta collection is actually quite depressing. They start out believing that the next edition will fix all of MT's mistakes, and as what TNE will become is released, the members get morbid and depressing.

Actually, don't read that collection; stick with the xboat and TML.

 

[robject]

Actually, having read some old TML postings, I'm leaning towards the AM missile being identical to the nuke, except dampers don't work, just proton screens.

That's an excellent rule.

 

[DonM]

As a general rule, I find that when something needs an adjustment in MT, almost always it's the simplest nudge.

 

[Reg Redblade]

by DonM

On the posts, get your hands on a copy of the HIWG cd, and search the GDW-Beta, Xboat and TML collections

Where can I get my hands on this CD ? I would be interested in some of the late MT/Pre TNE material .

Is there a " master of the archives " lurking around I don't know about ?

RR.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by TheEngineer:
# Merchant Free Trader characters cannot get Sensor Ops skill (PM 63)
Don, why does an (serves as skill not count and why should in be Nav-2 ?
Just as S4 noted, Nav-1 serves as SensorOps-0 and thats well enough to do a task without penalty ?

Whereas I agree that this is one backdoor, should a character have to learn Nav to learn how to use sensors? Sensor ops would be used in nvaigation (obviously) and thus makes sense to have Nav as a Serves As. But sensors also have tactical purposes that have nothing to do with Navigation. So why should the merchant have to know Navigation?

I think of merchants as being the people *most* interested in Sensor Ops. They often have poor legs, limited guns, and aren't really too happy about taking damage due to not being armoured military hulls. Sensors become their life and since they don't always have the most powerful sensors, they have to make sure their operators are the best they can be. And other skill minus one isn't much help. (Plus, then to be a good sensor operator, you need to have Nav-4+....)

Thanks for fixing the Shogtuns, Don.

I am looking forward to Tac Missile integration since they appear in a number of adventures.

And thanks for clearing up how an erratized version can be produced. I was hoping it was a PDF edit, not a rewrite into Word. If I was doing that, I might break each chapter into a separate document and use master doc and subs (or else use a more capable document production tool).

TomB

 

[DonM]

I believe that downport.com has the HIWG site, which has the info on where to send for a copy of the "HIWG CD".

On the other hand, the TML archives do just fine, but you have to be a lot more patient.

The early TML archives (years 89 through 92) are very interesting. So are the XBoat archives. The rest you have to sort through with a lot of work.

 

[sfchbryan]

No one responds from the HIWG site. None of the links go to anything.

 

[DonM]

Hmm... I received my copy several years back. Last I knew, Bryan Borich had them available, but I have no current contact info.

Sorry...

 

[DonM]

Here's a link to the TML Archives from 1987 to 2002... Obviously, the 1987 to 2002 items are of great interest to us.

http://dbdev2.pharmacy.arizona.edu/archives/TML_Archives/

Sadly, even though I was a member of the Xboat list "back in the day", I haven't found an archive of it yet on the web.

The gdw-beta archives appear to have also disappeared from the web.

 

[DonM]

I posted version 2.11 yesterday, so a Friday the 13th update for April.

The anti-matter missile fix is NOT in there, as I forgot about it. (sigh)

I guess that will be in 2.12

 

[DonM]

Speaking of errata again, I've come across a pair of tasks... One is in the trade rules, the other in the Skill area, and I think they need to be "made consistent"...

Any advice?

Original task in Skill chapter (slight changes already made):

To find a buyer for a load of laser rifles:
Simple, Broker, Streetwise, 1 day
Referee: This task assumes a world with No Law. Increase difficulty level by one for each increase in law code: Low Law is Routine, Mod Law is Difficult, Hi Law is Formidable, Ext Law is Impossible. For law levels where laser weapons are illegal, this task is hazardous.

This UTP is from the errata:

To find a buyer for speculative cargo:
[varies], Broker, Admin or Streetwise, [varies]
[High Pop (9+) = Simple, 4 hours]; [Mod Pop (4+) = Routine, 1 day]; [Lo Pop (3–) = Difficult, 2 days]
Referee: For manufactured hardware, increase the difficulty level by one for each difference in the tech code (Early Stellar to Average Stellar is a difference of one, and so on). For novelty items, decrease the difficulty level by one for each difference in tech code.
If the world’s Law Level is Low Law or less (3–), a fumble results in an automatic 3D mishap. At High Law, (8+), make the task hazardous (2D mishap), and at Extreme Law (A+), make the task hazardous and fateful (3D mishap).
In most cases, do not allow the difficulty to be increased beyond Formidable, unless the world has a Population of 0 (0-9 inhabitants).

Any suggestions? It's obvious that the second one was created as a substitute for the first, although the original rules didn't require such a roll, but the task is an example in the Skill section anyway.

OR, should I post the task library as a seperate topic for review? It's sometimes obvious that the writer in one chapter didn't match tasks with another writer...

 

[aramis]

The second is the one reliable; it's part of a larger system.

The one in the skills chapter is a specific exemplar situation to show a common usage, which should be a case exemption from the first.

But yeah, the tasks library is a whole other issue from "errata" and becomes "addenda"

 

[DonM]

The fact is, if an example in the skills section contradicts or does not mesh with the examples or rules themselves, then that's errata to be fixed... I'll see if I can post an example later of what I mean for this...

 

[DonM]

Well, I posted v2.12 while the boards were down, but I've already found some new items in the Player's Manual:

Page 93, Effects of Fire, left column (correction): References to other rules sections are incorrect; the reference “(see damage to buildings for how…” should read “(see Damage to Structures for how…”. The next paragraph states “See the rules for smoke”; this should actually read “See the rules for Smoke Screens”.
Page 94, Demolishing Structures (correction): The reference “Demolition charges demolish buildings as explained in structure damage” should read “Demolition charges demolish buildings as explained above (see Damage to Structures)”.
Page 94, Breaches (correction): In the second sentence, remove the phrase “and is in communication with in diameter”.

 

[ssgbryan]

I have a question about weapons bays. Does it make sense for a 50 ton bay to take as many hardpoints as a 100 ton bay? Especially when all other values are halved.

 

[DonM]

since the weapon bays have been pretty consistent across versions, I always thought of it as the facing space to the "outside" being the same, but it takes up half the internal volume.

 

[DonM]

OK, so I'm going through the Craft Design section, and I hit the "Guns" section. And I'm looking at all the ranges...

Like Mortars (first number is bore size, then range):
6-V. Long (4)
8-V. Long (5)
10-Distant (6)
12-Distant (7)
14-Distant (8)
16-Distant (9)
18-Distant (9)
20-Distant (10)
22-Distant (10)
24-Distant (11)
30-Distant (11)

The errata notes that the Range Band is listed, then the range in kilometers, which the errata says is MORE ACCURATE.

Except the problem is, that according to the Personal Combat rules, V. Long is between 250 and 500 meters, and Distant is from 500m to 5km. If the Personal Combat ranges should be followed, then the range bands should be changed for mortars to "Distant" and "V. Distant".

This problem appears to exist for a bunch of the guns.

Am I right, and I've just stumbled by accident into more errata, or am I just stupid, and this is another one of those "shogtuns" things?

 

[Hyphen]

Dear Dom -

Short answer: you're right. I've got the ranges crossed out in pencil in my book, so someone must have noticed this earlier. The first 2 range bands should be "Distant" and the remainder "V. Distant".

Long answer: here is a portion of my (unfinished) CPR Guns spreadsheet - this is an excerpt from the Mortars tab (there's also Howitzers, Medium Velocity Guns, High Velocity Guns, and Hyper Velocity Guns...):

	- - - - - - - - - - - - - Indirect Fire Range by Tech Level - - - - - - - - - - - - -										
Bore	TL5	TL6	TL7	TL8	TL9	TL10	TL11	TL12	TL13	TL14	TL15
(cm)	(km)	(km)	(km)	(km)	(km)	(km)	(km)	(km)	(km)	(km)	(km)
2	-	-	-	-	-	2	2.5	3	3.5	4	4.5
2.5	-	-	-	-	2	2.5	3	3.5	4	4.5	5
3	-	-	-	2	2.5	3	3.5	4	4.5	5	5.25
3.5	-	-	2	2.5	3	3.5	4	4.5	5	5.25	5.5
4	-	2	2.5	3	3.5	4	4.5	5	5.25	5.5	5.75
4.5	2	2.5	3	3.5	4	4.5	5	5.25	5.5	5.75	6
5	2.5	3	3.5	4	4.5	5	5.25	5.5	5.75	6	6.5
5.5	3	3.5	4	4.5	5	5.25	5.5	5.75	6	6.5	7
6	3.5	4	4.5	5	5.25	5.5	5.75	6	6.5	7	7.5
6.5	4	4.5	5	5.25	5.5	5.75	6	6.5	7	7.5	8
7	4.5	5	5.25	5.5	5.75	6	6.5	7	7.5	8	8.25
7.5	5	5.25	5.5	5.75	6	6.5	7	7.5	8	8.25	8.5
8	5.25	5.5	5.75	6	6.5	7	7.5	8	8.25	8.5	8.75
8.5	5.5	5.75	6	6.5	7	7.5	8	8.25	8.5	8.75	9
9	5.75	6	6.5	7	7.5	8	8.25	8.5	8.75	9	9.25
10	6	6.5	7	7.5	8	8.25	8.5	8.75	9	9.25	9.5
11	6.5	7	7.5	8	8.25	8.5	8.75	9	9.25	9.5	9.75
12	7	7.5	8	8.25	8.5	8.75	9	9.25	9.5	9.75	10
13	7.5	8	8.25	8.5	8.75	9	9.25	9.5	9.75	10	10.25
14	8	8.25	8.5	8.75	9	9.25	9.5	9.75	10	10.25	10.5
:
:
24	10.5	10.75	11	11.25	11.5	11.75	12	12.25	12.5	12.75	13
25	10.75	11	11.25	11.5	11.75	12	12.25	12.5	12.75	13	13.25
30	11	11.25	11.5	11.75	12	12.25	12.5	12.75	13	13.25	13.5

As you can see, the whole range question varies by bore size and TL, because it's based on a formula from Striker. MegaTraveller simply gives a sampling of the various types of guns (which is not a Bad Thing, really; those rows and rows of tablular data can be a drag. )