Errata - that difficult subject

[DonM]

On the TCS interaction with the stuff in the Referee's Manual -- interesting catch. Put together the errata and we can discuss it...

That COACC Addenda I've seen before (I think on the HIWG CD). I'm not sure where to fit it into COACC... one of the problems with COACC is that it doesn't easily fit with the rest of the design system.

The Mercenary Supermarket material is actually in the errata. The items in that article are mostly mentioned in the existing rules, but were not in the equipment listings. So, it's not listed as an extension because it's in the errata.

On the laser guidance issue... I thought lasers from another source could be used for targeting indirect fire, like a forward observer with a laser? Or is that not what this discusses... I'm not familiar enough with the Striker source material to guess.

 

[sfchbryan]

I'll get the TCS to you in the morning.

The COACC article is on the HIWG CD (somewhere). I just formated it so that the charts were readable. I like it because now when someone drops a nuke, I got an idea (game-mechanic wise) how to handle it.

Laser Guidance issue. The way that I read step 31 is that the laser guidance was added to the weapon that is firing indirect. Obviously, that is not the same as having someone else being a forward observer. Perhaps it's just the way I read it.

 

[jec10]

I'll get the TCS to you in the morning.

The COACC article is on the HIWG CD (somewhere). I just formated it so that the charts were readable. I like it because now when someone drops a nuke, I got an idea (game-mechanic wise) how to handle it.

Laser Guidance issue. The way that I read step 31 is that the laser guidance was added to the weapon that is firing indirect. Obviously, that is not the same as having someone else being a forward observer. Perhaps it's just the way I read it.

I think you're incorrect on the laser guidance one, sfchbryan. The MT system is referring to the same thing described in Rule 27 of CT/Striker, that is the use of a designating laser (usually wielded by a forward observer) to 'illuminate' a target for indirect fire rounds. It is not, therefore, errata to say that it is for "direct and indirect fire"

 

[jec10]

Here is what Rob Dean wrote about COACC in 1991..

> Is there anyone out there who thinks that there is anything salvagable
> from COACC? If so, what and why?



There is probably very little that is salvagable from COACC...bombs, rockets,
and external ordnance racks being about the extent of it. As far as I can
tell, too many inconsistencies exist between COACC and the Referee's Manual
design system to allow craft from one to compete on an equal footing with
craft from the other. Scott Kellogg's _Indianapolis_ series space fighters,
with their single computers, lack of armor, and batteries worth of externally
slung missiles provide an excellent example of this problem. (Not to mention
the fusion rockets that Dow Rieder assures us have a greater than light speed
exhaust. I should also mention that the external missiles portion of Scott's
designs is reasonable, and I'd support its incoporporation into TDR Air.)

Aircraft damage capacity is hugely inflated, and controls are not consistent
with the ref's manual. I feel strongly that any rewrite should specifically
take into account dogfights between grav vehicles and aircraft, because there
is no real way to determine the "equivalent agility" of grav vehicles as things
stand now.

I did like some of the general ideas introduced in COACC--like helicopter and
airship design, but I can't say that they are well implemented.


Rob Dean

 

[jec10]

We spent some time recently thrashing out the missing point defence rules for MT. Unfortunately, in the cut-and-paste from CT/Striker, Fugate and Co. missed a few other items of high interest to military-oriented Traveller gamers. Such as tac missiles for planetary surface combat. Such as multiple rocket launchers (MRLs) and remote MRLs (to be fair, Don's errata p.27 includes the MRL designs suggested in 101V, IIRC, but the rules still don't tell you how to use them). Costs and weights for disposable rocket launchers, grenade launchers and other infantry heavy weapons (fixed in the errata p.37). Set-up times for artillery in MegaTraveller would agree closely
with CT/Striker if they were in thirty second combat turns instead
of seconds. Smoke and anti-laser aerosols, while in the craft design rules, are missing the CT/Striker rules for their use against lasers. Radar stops improving after TL9, and you have to buy a full EMS suite instead.

Of all of these, I find the absence of tac missiles the most egregious and inexplicable.

 

[sfchbryan]

If it helps, TAC Missiles are in MTJ #3.

Things they were interested in were quite detailed & done quite well. Military campaigns, big ships, not so much.

 

[DonM]

I know about the MTJ #3 TAC missiles, and I've tried to add them previously; there's something odd about the way they are presented, but I just wasn't able to convert that article to errata in a satisfactory fashion.

 

[vraymond]

Making this thread sticky?

I wasn't sure if this was necessary, but it seems to me that this thread would benefit from being sticky. (Wasn't it once before?)

 

[aramis]

I wasn't sure if this was necessary, but it seems to me that this thread would benefit from being sticky. (Wasn't it once before?)

Stuck now.

 

[sfchbryan]

Well, I am starting to work my way through the Referee's Companion. I have made a few corrections to pg 29. (Technology Chart 2) & I'll be sending it along as soon as I check to see if any Errata conflicts with it.

 

[sfchbryan]

Just noticed something missing from pg 37 (Army Units Of the Imperium) from the Rebellion Sourcebook. The Table labeled EXPECTED TROOP STRENGTHS ON A SPECIFIC WORLD only goes up to TL 16.

The chart was taken from an article in JTAS #10 called Troops in the Fifth Frontier War BY MWM.

That chart goes to TL 21. In addition, there is a 2nd chart labeled MOBILE BATTALIONS AVAILABLE FOR OPERATIONS OFF-WORLD. Very useful if you need to know how many battalions a world can provide to the Imperial Army.

I'll package this up & send it to Don today.

 

[anders lager]

Re-writing the MT books?

Has anyone tried to re-write/re-create the MT-books incorporating the errata so far (thinking of Don M's consolidated errata)?

I think it would be feasible: scan the original texts, add the errata, make a new PDF of the corrected text.

Anyone knows?

/doc.

 

[DonM]

Just back from Winter War (Champaign, IL)... I'll go over these notes in the next day or two...

 

[sfchbryan]

Has anyone tried to re-write/re-create the MT-books incorporating the errata so far (thinking of Don M's consolidated errata)?

I think it would be feasible: scan the original texts, add the errata, make a new PDF of the corrected text.

Anyone knows?

/doc.

Yes, it is feasible. I have a 4th ed Referee's Manual. It is content complete, and now I am prettying it up.

It took a while. I dumped the text (no charts) into MS Word in about 1 hour. Adding the errata for the text and correcting the PDF import took about 40 hours over a few months.

The charts (which have 90% of the problems) was another animal all together. I ended up lovingly typing ALL of them by hand. That took a while. I started over 3 times before I got a work flow process that worked.

Then there was adding all of the additional goodies. My personal copy has the 20 pages of Don's Errata, the Wet Navy supplement, Lances not Lasers, and Early Tech Supplement from Challenge Magazine, One Small Step from Hard Times, a few things from Traveller's Digest, and some things that I noticed were missing from MT.

Then there was the matter of changing the text from passive voice to active voice and other grammar issues.

Then there were all of the updated versions of Don's Errata.

I have sent some other things I have found to Don that might make the next version of the errata, but they are already in my personal set.

I have just started on the Referee's Companion and the Rebellion Sourcebook. At some point I'll fix the ships in FSOSI (which was the whole point of reworking the Referee's Manual).

My goal for 2008 is to update all of my manuals to 4th Ed (and build my own copies of stuff that was promised but never delivered.)

 

[anders lager]

A lot of work, huh? Suspected that the Tables would be that...

Anyway, thanks sfchbryan, if you can, so can I. Just a question of that precious thing - time...:-D

/doc.

 

[sfchbryan]

It isn't hard, it's just tedious.

I just failed my determination roll a couple of times.

 

[sfchbryan]

Errata or Addenda

In Wet Navy Pt one, we were promised a naval character generation. It was never published in Challenge Magazine. While looking for something else in the HIWG cd, I found it.

Would this be considered Errata or Addenda?

I'm going to put it into my Advanced Character Generation Template & see what it looks like.

(Later, much later)
It looks pretty good.....

 

[DonM]

I've discovered why the Enhanced Merchant character generation system keeps generating more errata...

It's an EXACT copy from Merchant Prince; it hasn't been modified for MegaTraveller at all.

So, I think this should be fixed; not by piecemeal changes to the tables on page 63 of the Player's Manual, but by a permanent rewrite of the Skill Tables portion, and the Special Duty Resolution.

The problem I have is: I don't use the Enhanced MT generation. So perhaps someone more experienced with it than I would like to take this on?

In the meantime, I'm changing the existing problem "Merchant Free Trader characters cannot get Sensor Ops skill (PM 63)" to "Enhanced Merchant Character Generation unchanged from Merchant Prince (PM 63)".

 

[sfchbryan]

Assuming that you want to stay with 1-6; how about....

Shipboard Life:
1 - Physical (Cascade)
2 - Hand Combat (Cascade) (I didn't know cascades could have cascades.)
3 - Vacc Suit
4 - Zero-G Enviro
5 - Technical (Cascade)
6 - Inborn (Cascade)

Officer Skills:
1 - Brawling
2 - Vehicle (Cascade)
3 - Ship's Boat
4 - Gun Cbt (Cascade)
5 - Liaison
6 - Trader

Merchant Skills:
1 - Streetwise
2 - Broker
3 - Trader
4 - Liaison
5 - Economic (Cascade)
6 - Legal

Master Skills
1 - Economic (Cascade)
2 - Computer
3 - Navigation
4 - Pilot
5 - Leader
6 - Bribery

Deck Skills:
1 - Navig
2 - Admin
3 - Pilot
4 - Space (Cascade)
5 - Ship's Boat
6 - Exploratory (Cascade)

Engineer Skills:
1 - Mechanical
2 - Electronic
3 - Technical (Cascade)
4 - Mental (Cascade)
5 - Engineering
6 - Gravitics

Purser Skills:
1 - Steward
2 - Medical
3 - Liaison
4 - Gunnery
5 - Medical
6 - Robot Ops

Medic Skills
1 - Steward
2 - Admin
3 - Medical
4 - Science (Cascade - Life Sciences only)
5 - Computer
6 - Academic (Cascade)

Admin Skills
1 - Admin
2 - Liaison
3 - Bribery
4 - Econ (Cascade)
5 - Forgery
6 - Computer

Sales Life
1 - Trader
2 - Broker
3 - Computer
4 - Liaison
5 - Econ (Cascade)
6 - Broker

Planet Life
1 - Gun Cbt (Cascade)
2 - Streetwise
3 - Econ (Cascade)
4 - Hand Combat (Cascade)
5 - Inborn (Cascade)
6 - Vice

Free Trader - Life
1 - Physical (Cascade)
2 - Mental (Cascade)
3 - Streetwise
4 - Forgery
5 - Bribery
6 - Legal

Free Trader - Service
1 - Steward
2 - Econ (Cascade)
3 - Broker
4 - Admin
5 - Gunnery (Cascade)
6 - Leader

Free Trader - Business
1 - Technical (Cascade)
2 - Exploratory (Cascade)
3 - Econ (Cascade)
4 - Hand Cbt (Cascade)
5 - Navigation
6 - Pilot

 

[sfchbryan]

Specific Assignment Tables

We may need to look at this also. Getting a special duty/school seems almost impossible.
With a DM+1 at O4 what is the point. Most characters will probably already have most of the skills offered in the Special Duty Resolution section.