Errata - that difficult subject
- Thread starter vraymond
- Start date
This was just an opening point for discussion. The only pattern that I used was:
Do not enlarge the table.
Is there a cascade that could replace this skill?
Ensure that there was a variety of skills available (See MP Medic Skills table).
I just looked at the skill tables in isolation. There are other ways to go. We could enlarge the tables by adding additional lines & reducing the number of cascades and or just make minor adjustments to the skill tables and adjust the Specific Assignment Tables so that a character as a better than 3% chance go to a special duty school.
Again, this was all just off the cuff.
Do not enlarge the table.
Is there a cascade that could replace this skill?
Ensure that there was a variety of skills available (See MP Medic Skills table).
I just looked at the skill tables in isolation. There are other ways to go. We could enlarge the tables by adding additional lines & reducing the number of cascades and or just make minor adjustments to the skill tables and adjust the Specific Assignment Tables so that a character as a better than 3% chance go to a special duty school.
Again, this was all just off the cuff.
Remembering what I could about the original conversion, here's what I came up with seperately. It's interesting to see where we are similar, and where we are different...
The pattern behind this is: replace skills with clusters to match Basic Generation, for the first occurrence of a skill in a table. Generally, I leave the second occurrence of a skill alone, and the third occurrence of a skill is replaced with a different cluster. It's not an absolute...
Merchant Life
1 Brawling
2 Physical
3 Gambling
4 Trader
5 Mental
6 Inborn
Shipboard Life
1 Gambling
2 Hand Combat
3 Vacc Suit
4 Zero-G Env
5 Commo
6 Inborn
Officer Skills
1 Brawling
2 Vehicle
3 Ship's Boat
4 Gun Combat
5 Liaison
6 Interpersonal
Merchantile Skills
1 Interpersonal
2 Broker
3 Trader
4 Liaison
5 Economic
6 Legal
Master Skills
1 Economic
2 Space Tech
3 Space
4 Space
5 Leader
6 Vice
Deck Skills
1 Space
2 Economic
3 Space Tech
4 Legal
5 Ship's Boat
6 Leader
Engineering Skills
1 Mechanical
2 Technical
3 Engineering
4 Economic
5 Space Tech
6 Gravities
Purser Skills
1 Interpersonal
2 Medical
3 Liaison
4 Space Combat
5 Steward
6 Liaison
Medic Skills
1 Interpersonal
2 Medical
3 Medical
4 Science
5 Technical
6 Academic
Admin Skills
1 Admin
2 Liaison
3 Vice
4 Economic
5 Academic
6 Streetwise
Sales Skills
1 Trader
2 Broker
3 Technical
4 Liaison
5 Economic
6 Economic
Planet Bound Life
1 Gun Combat
2 Streetwise
3 Vacc Suit
4 Vacc Suit
5 Gun Combat
6 Brawling
Free Trader Life
1 Physical
2 Hand Combat
3 Streetwise
4 Mental
5 Vice
6 Legal
Free Trader Service
1 Interpersonal
2 Trader
3 Broker
4 Economic
5 Space Combat
6 Leader
Free Trader Business
1 Space Tech
2 Space
3 Steward
4 Legal
5 Interpersonal
6 Broker
Any discussion?
The pattern behind this is: replace skills with clusters to match Basic Generation, for the first occurrence of a skill in a table. Generally, I leave the second occurrence of a skill alone, and the third occurrence of a skill is replaced with a different cluster. It's not an absolute...
Merchant Life
1 Brawling
2 Physical
3 Gambling
4 Trader
5 Mental
6 Inborn
Shipboard Life
1 Gambling
2 Hand Combat
3 Vacc Suit
4 Zero-G Env
5 Commo
6 Inborn
Officer Skills
1 Brawling
2 Vehicle
3 Ship's Boat
4 Gun Combat
5 Liaison
6 Interpersonal
Merchantile Skills
1 Interpersonal
2 Broker
3 Trader
4 Liaison
5 Economic
6 Legal
Master Skills
1 Economic
2 Space Tech
3 Space
4 Space
5 Leader
6 Vice
Deck Skills
1 Space
2 Economic
3 Space Tech
4 Legal
5 Ship's Boat
6 Leader
Engineering Skills
1 Mechanical
2 Technical
3 Engineering
4 Economic
5 Space Tech
6 Gravities
Purser Skills
1 Interpersonal
2 Medical
3 Liaison
4 Space Combat
5 Steward
6 Liaison
Medic Skills
1 Interpersonal
2 Medical
3 Medical
4 Science
5 Technical
6 Academic
Admin Skills
1 Admin
2 Liaison
3 Vice
4 Economic
5 Academic
6 Streetwise
Sales Skills
1 Trader
2 Broker
3 Technical
4 Liaison
5 Economic
6 Economic
Planet Bound Life
1 Gun Combat
2 Streetwise
3 Vacc Suit
4 Vacc Suit
5 Gun Combat
6 Brawling
Free Trader Life
1 Physical
2 Hand Combat
3 Streetwise
4 Mental
5 Vice
6 Legal
Free Trader Service
1 Interpersonal
2 Trader
3 Broker
4 Economic
5 Space Combat
6 Leader
Free Trader Business
1 Space Tech
2 Space
3 Steward
4 Legal
5 Interpersonal
6 Broker
Any discussion?
Great minds think alike Don....
I suspect that we used different cascades to cover the same skill sets. I used exploratory cascade to get sensor ops to to merchant characters, whereas you used the space cascade: I used the gunnery cascade to get turret wpns you used the Space Cbt cascade.
Purser Skills
I'd still keep Robot Ops with the Purser Skills. IMTU Pursers handle cargo in port therefore they work the robots when loading & unloading cargo.
Medic skills:
I'd still limit the science cascade to life sciences only.
33% chance of Vacc Suit on Planet Bound Life?
I suspect that we used different cascades to cover the same skill sets. I used exploratory cascade to get sensor ops to to merchant characters, whereas you used the space cascade: I used the gunnery cascade to get turret wpns you used the Space Cbt cascade.
Purser Skills
I'd still keep Robot Ops with the Purser Skills. IMTU Pursers handle cargo in port therefore they work the robots when loading & unloading cargo.
Medic skills:
I'd still limit the science cascade to life sciences only.
33% chance of Vacc Suit on Planet Bound Life?
Something I found in Trade & Commerce (pg 53)
In step 4 Delivery - we have the following:
Normal delivery to the ship is four days. Add 10 percent to the final cost for each day of advance delivery to the ship. For example, instant (same day) delivery costs 40% extra.
I find it difficult to believe that no one in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd Imperium has ever heard of Just-In-Time (JIT) delivery.
Recommended change:
Normal delivery to the ship is 24 hours, if the cargo is already at the starport. (1D - 1-5 in port, 6 - elsewhere on world)
Add 24 hours if TL is 5 - 7, Add an additional 48 hours if TL is 4 or less.
In step 4 Delivery - we have the following:
Normal delivery to the ship is four days. Add 10 percent to the final cost for each day of advance delivery to the ship. For example, instant (same day) delivery costs 40% extra.
I find it difficult to believe that no one in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd Imperium has ever heard of Just-In-Time (JIT) delivery.
Recommended change:
Normal delivery to the ship is 24 hours, if the cargo is already at the starport. (1D - 1-5 in port, 6 - elsewhere on world)
Add 24 hours if TL is 5 - 7, Add an additional 48 hours if TL is 4 or less.
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Questions on Trade
Barren World (Ba): Goods from Barren Worlds are raw materials mined or gathered by a ship's crew. They are poor sources of cargoes and resources. They cannot be markets.
Are we to assume that every Ba world is a "company town"? I have a hard time buying the fact that every Ba world is self-sufficent. Especially looking at how quickly trade collapsed during the Rebellion. If playing RAW (Rules as Written) a Ba world would never notice that trade collapsed.
Once a company sells their raw materials, what are they doing with their credits? Sitting in a vault? I doubt it. The purpose of trade is an exchange of goods. Ba worlds under RAW export only. How do they address their trade imbalance?
If a trader can't sell on a Ba world, why would they go there. Traveling with empty holds is a good way to have your ship repossessed.
I recommend that rather than listing markets by world type they should be listed by goods. Using the example above:
Barren World (Ba): Goods from Barren Worlds are raw materials mined or gathered by the world population. They are good sources for natural resources. They are fair sources of processed resources and manufactured goods. They are poor sources of manufactured goods and novelties.
Makes more sense to me. What does everyone else think?
Barren World (Ba): Goods from Barren Worlds are raw materials mined or gathered by a ship's crew. They are poor sources of cargoes and resources. They cannot be markets.
Are we to assume that every Ba world is a "company town"? I have a hard time buying the fact that every Ba world is self-sufficent. Especially looking at how quickly trade collapsed during the Rebellion. If playing RAW (Rules as Written) a Ba world would never notice that trade collapsed.
Once a company sells their raw materials, what are they doing with their credits? Sitting in a vault? I doubt it. The purpose of trade is an exchange of goods. Ba worlds under RAW export only. How do they address their trade imbalance?
If a trader can't sell on a Ba world, why would they go there. Traveling with empty holds is a good way to have your ship repossessed.
I recommend that rather than listing markets by world type they should be listed by goods. Using the example above:
Barren World (Ba): Goods from Barren Worlds are raw materials mined or gathered by the world population. They are good sources for natural resources. They are fair sources of processed resources and manufactured goods. They are poor sources of manufactured goods and novelties.
Makes more sense to me. What does everyone else think?
I completely disagree, since Barren worlds by definition have NO population.
So, no market.
The Vilani have rules against it.
However, this is not errata. It might be annoying. I'd be curious to know how T20 handled this issue, or if it did at all.
TL 20, actually. At TL 21 you'll probably find that individual units are sent in to wipe out entire battalions in the blink of an eye.
(All chanting "Ulah!" as they do so.
)It's also available on my website. Go to
==> Tavonni Repair Bays
==> Other Assorted Notes
==> Determining Planetary Forces in the Fifth Frontier War
World Generation Addenda
Just some thoughts on world generation:
Proposal #1: For Atmosphere, current rule is:
Throw 2D-7+World Size for Atmosphere. If World Size is 0, then Atmosphere is 0.
Change to: Throw 2D-7+World Size for Atmosphere. If World Size is 2-, then Atmosphere is 0. If World Size is 3-4, then Max Atmosphere is 1.
Proposal #2: Add an explicit note that if Population = 0, Government, Law Level and Tech Level are all = 0.
Proposal #3: Also for consideration, from the CT Alien Modules:
Atm 2-, minimum TL 7
Atm 3, minimum TL 6
Atm 4, 7, or 9, minimum TL 5
Comments?
Just some thoughts on world generation:
Proposal #1: For Atmosphere, current rule is:
Throw 2D-7+World Size for Atmosphere. If World Size is 0, then Atmosphere is 0.
Change to: Throw 2D-7+World Size for Atmosphere. If World Size is 2-, then Atmosphere is 0. If World Size is 3-4, then Max Atmosphere is 1.
Proposal #2: Add an explicit note that if Population = 0, Government, Law Level and Tech Level are all = 0.
Proposal #3: Also for consideration, from the CT Alien Modules:
Atmosphere Effects: Certain atmospheres on worlds dictate the minimum tech level, as shown below.
Atm C+, minimum TL 9
Atm A-B, minimum TL 8Atm C+, minimum TL 9
Atm 2-, minimum TL 7
Atm 3, minimum TL 6
Atm 4, 7, or 9, minimum TL 5
Comments?
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Major B
SOC-14 1K
I have a copy of the December 2007 version of Don's errata compendium (thanks very much for this huge effort by the way). If this question is covered somewhere else or in a more current version please re-direct me.
RE: Turret Weaponry:
On page 73 of the Referee's manual the text makes it clear that the listed weapon price is per weapon and not for the entire turret. Does the same apply to power and weight too?
I've always assumed it does but the text doesn't specify so I thought I'd ask.
RE: Turret Weaponry:
On page 73 of the Referee's manual the text makes it clear that the listed weapon price is per weapon and not for the entire turret. Does the same apply to power and weight too?
I've always assumed it does but the text doesn't specify so I thought I'd ask.
Major B
SOC-14 1K
After my last post I thought I should check the amended starship design example to see how it addressed the turrets. Unfortunately, it raised an additional question.
The example multiplies the listed cost, power, and weight by the number of weapons, not the number of turrets. This is what I thought was correct although the RM text on page 73 does not make it clear.
However, the starship design example also multiplies the turret volume (13.5) by the number of weapons rather than the number of turrets. The RM text states that turrets have a particular volume (13.5 for missile and laser turrets) and that they can hold 1, 2, or 3 weapons. I think that means that the turret volume stays constant and up to 3 weapons can be fitted inside, not that a triple missile turret has a volume of 40.5 (for example).
I believe the starship design example allocates too much space to the turret weaponry, but would like to have someone here check to make sure.
The example multiplies the listed cost, power, and weight by the number of weapons, not the number of turrets. This is what I thought was correct although the RM text on page 73 does not make it clear.
However, the starship design example also multiplies the turret volume (13.5) by the number of weapons rather than the number of turrets. The RM text states that turrets have a particular volume (13.5 for missile and laser turrets) and that they can hold 1, 2, or 3 weapons. I think that means that the turret volume stays constant and up to 3 weapons can be fitted inside, not that a triple missile turret has a volume of 40.5 (for example).
I believe the starship design example allocates too much space to the turret weaponry, but would like to have someone here check to make sure.
Proposal 1 - makes a lot of sense.
Proposal 2 - Don't know about this one, pop 0 doesn't mean there is 0 population, it mean there is 9 or less permanent population.
(See Gvurrdon 0439 - A0000002-G(!) Low nIn As; 2331 A000000-C Lo Ba nIn As) The 2331 world is what was driving my trade question from 16 Feb. Which trade code takes priority Lo or Ba?
Proposal 3 - I had always assumed that if there was a pop code with a hostile atmosphere for humans that the pop code was for a native race.
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TL 20, actually. At TL 21 you'll probably find that individual units are sent in to wipe out entire battalions in the blink of an eye.
(All chanting "Ulah!" as they do so.
It's also available on my website. Go to
==> Tavonni Repair Bays
==> Other Assorted Notes
==> Determining Planetary Forces in the Fifth Frontier War
The second table can be reduced to the following sentence:
For every ten battalions, one battalion is available for deployment off world.
We do know that for Spinward Marches Campaign, the addition of population multiples to population 0 worlds was a goof. So, I'd argue strongly that Pop=0 means 0 population.
Some notes: nIn is now Ni, and errata says Ni is Pop 1-6, not Pop 0. Isn't this supposed to be:
Aek Elakfough (0439): A000000-0 Ba As 220Na K8V M7D
I'd really like to know who built that class A starport there...
Remember that in the OTU, the number of minor races is limited, so that's probably not a valid assumption for OTU. For your own universe, you can probably assume that just fine...
I pulled the stats directly off pg 47 in CT 3. I didn't even look at the population multiple, just the main numbers. It was always my understanding that the MT definition that 0 pop is 0-9 permanent population stayed valid.
I'd still like to know how they generated a Tech Level of G.
I would use it as a secret-squirrel research station.
High-Energy research anyone?
Ship research & design?
Weapons development is just too common.
The research station has 1-9 permanent researchers & the 2 would represent the temporary personnel (100-999). This could also explain how they rate a Class A starport.
I was looking for a location to put an adventure which is why I was digging around in the Gvurrdon sector to begin with. This is just the place. (Slave ship from Sergan anyone)? Bonus points if anyone recognizes the title without looking it up.
This is one of the things that I like about Traveller. I just use Occam's razor. Makes things much easier to explain.
BTW, where do you get the idea that the number of minor races is limited? "Worlds naturally spawn their own life forms, and many produce intelligent species" - pg 7 Referee's Manual
What I find most interesting about the tech level minimums is that they come from several Traveller products, but the ones you would NEVER look at if you were doing a revision, because those were for Alien Races.
So, someone actually figured out those minimums, and I'm simply suggesting that we add as addenda that the minimum TL for a world with those conditions (based on the OTU) should be such.
Of the three above, it's the one actually based on Traveller.
Proposal #1 is based in "reality", and Proposal #2 is based on my learning about the SMC data (which is where IE gets its SM data) from the sources.
What's interesting is that all three proposals are reflected in the worldgen debates for Mongoose's revision, but our MT addenda would actually implement them more cleanly...
:rofl:
So, someone actually figured out those minimums, and I'm simply suggesting that we add as addenda that the minimum TL for a world with those conditions (based on the OTU) should be such.
Of the three above, it's the one actually based on Traveller.
Proposal #1 is based in "reality", and Proposal #2 is based on my learning about the SMC data (which is where IE gets its SM data) from the sources.
What's interesting is that all three proposals are reflected in the worldgen debates for Mongoose's revision, but our MT addenda would actually implement them more cleanly...
:rofl:
And you saw the uproar that it caused, along with the withdrawal of the idea.
Fixing planetary size to match atmosphere type or vice versa makes sense on the surface.
But it would cause 2nd order effects.
How do you plan on adjusting the Ael Yael, (Homeworld B-484655-4) to match the changes you are proposing?
What changes are you going to make to the Githiaskio (Homeworld A-789886-C)?
How do you plan on explaining the technological advance of the the Jdg-ll-Jagd?
What about the Sabmiqys [natives, not the robots] (homeworld: X1600056 H)?
The Brinn will also have to be adjusted. Their tech level is 8.
The whole reason the tech levels were in the CT Alien modules is because the Tech limitations would be needed for the races in the module. It would not apply to indigenous populations.
The reason I view proposal 3 as a no go is because it would eliminate native races on interesting worlds. If you are looking to have a Asimovian universe, or at best, just the Six Races, that is fine, but what is the point of having an SF role-playing game without aliens? Might as well stay at home.
Yep, saw the uproar...
Actually, my main reason for pitching the three proposals here was to simply get past them. :devil:
We've discussed them, and since I think the Brinn are great, we recognize that the OTU just is like that. :smirk:
sfchbryan -- we do need to clean up our proposals on fixing the extended Merchant generation. I'll review your post, and do some comparisons. I do think you've leaned more towards the Navy's cascades (I based my conversion off of the difference between the TTB merchant and the basic generation merchant), but maybe the merchants need a little gunnery practice.
Actually, my main reason for pitching the three proposals here was to simply get past them. :devil:
We've discussed them, and since I think the Brinn are great, we recognize that the OTU just is like that. :smirk:
sfchbryan -- we do need to clean up our proposals on fixing the extended Merchant generation. I'll review your post, and do some comparisons. I do think you've leaned more towards the Navy's cascades (I based my conversion off of the difference between the TTB merchant and the basic generation merchant), but maybe the merchants need a little gunnery practice.
I've put together a draft of the Enhanced Merchant skill tables http://winterwar.prairienet.org/dmckinne/MTEnhancedMerchantDraftErrata.pdf
Please review the notes as well.
After looking over the Special Duty, I'm not inclined to think there's too much to change there. None of the other enhanced generation careers have Cascades in the Special Duty, and it seems like the right skills are there.
Please review the notes as well.
After looking over the Special Duty, I'm not inclined to think there's too much to change there. None of the other enhanced generation careers have Cascades in the Special Duty, and it seems like the right skills are there.
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