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Escape Velocity Problem Returns in T5!

Ah, here is our fundamental disconnect. I believe that the current X-boat system was fast enough for Arbellatra's time, and you don't.
I don't see how you figure that. Even if I go with your figures for the sake of argument, you get 3.0 parsecs/week for civilian J4 traffic, which is kind of irrelevant since you get 3.4 parsecs/week for a dedicated courier setup, which the Imperial Navy would have. If Arbellatra believes that the Imperium is straining under the stress of communication problems, she's already using the navy's couriers. So the original X-boats would have to beat 3.4 parsecs per week. Which is more than 2.6 parsecs/week.

Here are my assumptions:
- An ordinary courier requires roughly 24 hours between Jumps to maneuver from the inbound jump point to a source of fuel, refuel, recalibrate drives, and possibly change crews or perform necessary maintenance that can only be done in realspace, and maneuver to the outbound jump point. I assume a "pony express" style handoff is required to reduce this figure below 24 hours.
Yes, but that's not really a problem, is it? If you plan for a courier a day, the arriving courier beams the priority news to a waiting courier -- as much data as SOP allows for in the standard time period. Call it 60 minutes. The rest is transferred during the next 24 hours and is ready to go on the next courier. That slows your second class mail to your 3.4 parsecs per week, but the priority mail goes through at 3.9 (3.887) parsecs/week. Possibly a bit less due to jump variance, but I can't quite figure out how to compute that.

- An optimized route involves 90% of jumps executed at J-4 directly towards the destination. The other 10% of jumps are allowed to deviate by a maximum of 1 parsec (which means that either the jump makes a dogleg that adds 1 parsec to the total distance, or that the jump is executed at J-3); larger deviations are not allowed. I believe this to be a fairly strict course plot, on the edge of what is do-able given Imperial astrography.
Yes, that sounds reasonable. The problem seems to be with your 24 hour handoff time. That's what I'd calculate with for a lone courier doing the entire run on its own.

What is your Navigational Efficiency?

I think the figures are in the upper 2 or just barely over 3 parsecs per week. Using 48 hours as an average time to find an outgoing ship headed to the correct destination, and the formulas above, I get a maximum of 3.04 parsecs per week using the 97.5% navigationally-efficient optimized route.
Between 1 and 24 hours (average 12½) would be what I would expect, bade on the assumption that high-population worlds would have enough potential passengers to maintain a regular daily shedule.

However, I suspect that J-4 commercial shipping may be more willing to deviate from maximum drive utilization in favor of destinations that offer profitable trades.
I'm convinced that the fastest route between two adjacent high-population worlds would be the route for passenger liners. Liners that specialize in passenger service.

I suspect that finding an outbound connection within 48 hours is reasonable on busy trade links, but could become more problematic on other routes. If even one connection in 10 was missed, resulting in a 7-day delay, this would drop the average speed to 2.42 parsecs per week.
Sure, the less populous worlds wouldn't be getting daily J4 passenger service. Below a certain population size they won't be getting any J4 passenger service.


Hans
 
You got that from the speed of dissemination essay in MT, right? I consider that story highly implausible, but even if we accept them, the couriers still beat the X-boats. So the X-boats are not, as the essay claims, the fastest possible means of information transfer.

Even if you consider the overall story flawed (and for good reason), I suspect that the numbers in the essay are fairly sound. Given who was involved, I'd imagine that they were figured out by having someone trace a route for the message to follow across the Grand Survey map and counting the number of jumps.

Unless you can demonstrate that it isn't possible to do any better than 2.6 parsecs per week, I will continued to assume that the X-boats did do better at first.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I feel my interpretation is better-supported by taking the available canon material at face value - but that's my opinion.
 
If Arbellatra believes that the Imperium is straining under the stress of communication problems, she's already using the navy's couriers. So the original X-boats would have to beat 3.4 parsecs per week. Which is more than 2.6 parsecs/week.

In Arbellatra's time, Navy couriers were likely aligned with factions in the Civil War, and were probably not effective for long-distance, Imperium-wide communications. Placing the X-boat service in the hands of the IISS de-politicizes the main: unlike the Navy, the IISS doesn't have strong ties to any faction of nobility, and is more likely to be able to deliver the mail.

If you plan for a courier a day, the arriving courier beams the priority news to a waiting courier [...] The rest is transferred during the next 24 hours and is ready to go on the next courier. That slows your second class mail to your 3.4 parsecs per week, but the priority mail goes through at 3.9 (3.887) parsecs/week. Possibly a bit less due to jump variance, but I can't quite figure out how to compute that.

I'm not 100% sure how to compute that, either. Here's what I did:

For the single-ship courier run (the Type TJ case), it is fairly easy: over the length of the run, the jump variance will average out to 168 hours per jump. I figured an average of 24 hours in realspace between jumps to compute the effective average speed.

Any network where messages move from one or more inbound ships to a sorting center to one or more outbound ships is more complex. Because of jump variance, we don't know when we will get the next inbound ship. It should average out to 4 ships a day ... but we may well have a day where we get no inbound ships, followed by a day where we get 8, one right after the other. Thinking about the flow, then, I came up with a few principles:
- Ships need to be standing by, ready to leave when the message center releases them. This means that there need to be enough ships "in the pipeline" (getting fuel, maintenance, new crews, etc.) so that a ship will be ready to go when it is needed.
- The maintenance pipeline is designed to output a ship, ready to go, at specific intervals. If ships arrive faster than this due to jump variance, they will stack up in an input queue; if ships arrive more slowly, the input queue has to be big enough that it will not run dry in the meantime.
- It follows that we therefore cannot release a ship "early". Even if the ship is ready to go, releasing a ship early means that we will likely have to wait longer for the next ship to be ready from the maintenance pipeline.
- There is no point in releasing a ship if it has no messages to carry. For sake of argument, we will assume that there is always locally-originated messages ready to go out-system. Therefore, ships will never be released "late".

At this point, we have a process that is outputting ships to Jump out system at a regular rate. I call this the "dispatch rate", and measure it in hours per ship on a given link. Canonical materials tell us that the fastest dispatch rate for the X-boat system is 6 hours. Presumably there are other links with a slower dispatch rate.

Once this process is up and running, the arrival of inbound messages is an asynchronous event: messages will arrive at random points in the dispatch cycle. If the inbound ship arrives just barely in time for message processing, these messages a delay of (at minimum) whatever amount of time that it takes to transmit them to the message center, process them, and relay them to the outbound ship. I'll call this XmitTime. If the inbound ship just misses the outbound ship, messages will experience a delay of XmitTime+DispatchRate. If we assume that the inbound ship arrives are a essentially at random with respect to scheduled departures, this means that the average delay at each station is XmitTime + DispatchRate/2. I called this average delay "HandOff", and picked 6 hours more-or-less at random (it corresponds to a 1-hour XmitTime and an overall average dispatch rate of one ship per 9 hours, roughly 55% of the links on 6-hour dispatch, 35% on 12-hour, and 10% on 24-hour).

The problem seems to be with your 24 hour handoff time. That's what I'd calculate with for a lone courier doing the entire run on its own.

That's what I assumed "ordinary courier" to mean - a single ship making successive jumps as rapidly as possible, with no "pony express" hand-off to another ship.

What is your Navigational Efficiency?

It is just an alternate way of expressing the average distance per jump executed; I call it "navigational efficiency" because there may be many factors - locations of bases or stops, astrographic features, economic reasons, or other factors that may cause the ship to depart from a maximum-jump, straight-line course.

Over a 200-parsec straight-line route from origin to destination, a J-4 ship that reaches the destination in 50 jumps exactly has 100% navigational efficiency. No ship in the real world will hit this mark. I believe the highest reasonable numbers over a significant course to be in the mid to high 90's. For example:
- If the distance traveled is not an integer multiple of the ship's jump number, then navigational efficiency will be less than 100%. A J-4 ship over a 201-parsec course will operate at 98.5% navigational efficiency.
- If a J-4 ship has to make 51 jumps over a 200-parsec route (for example, to dogleg around a 6-parsec rift), the ship made 3.9215... parsecs per jump, or 98% navigational efficiency.
Navigational efficiency can be calculated from the observed jump performance (and predicted jump performance can be estimated from navigational efficiency):
Navigational Efficiency = Observed Average Parsecs per Jump / Ship Jump Capability
Expected Average Parsecs per Jump = Ship Jump Capability * Navigational Efficency

Between 1 and 24 hours (average 12½) would be what I would expect, bade on the assumption that high-population worlds would have enough potential passengers to maintain a regular daily schedule.

Assuming that the messages are electronically transferred and the XmitTime is the same as for the IISS, I get a 13 hour handoff time minimum.

Sure, the less populous worlds wouldn't be getting daily J4 passenger service. Below a certain population size they won't be getting any J4 passenger service.

These gaps have to be figured into any long-haul communications network. There are plenty of locations where high-population worlds are more than 4 parsecs from the nearest other high-population world. When there's no J-4 passenger service, do the messages stop? Do the transfer to a J-1 subsidized merchant, or a J-2 far trader? How frequent is service across these gaps, and how long are the gaps?

Since Traveller population levels are also determined at random, networks of high-population worlds are essentially random. The canonical OTU X-boat links are probably also randomly generated, based on starport type. Fundamentally both types of networks are random, and should perform about the same for long-haul.

I agree with you that basing the network on population (rather than just starport type) is probably more useful, since such networks will tend to tie population centers together. It is worth noting that in T5, Marc agrees with you, since the new method for determining X-boat links is to use both starport type and population (and bases).
 
THere is also the perenial bugaboo that jump duration is NOT "=7days" but "=(6.3 to 7.7) days". If your handoff for the pony express is based upon that 7 day average, rather than the 7.7 day, your pony express loses a lot more chunks.

Plus, I don't recall it being specified as one every four hours.
 
THere is also the perenial bugaboo that jump duration is NOT "=7days" but "=(6.3 to 7.7) days". If your handoff for the pony express is based upon that 7 day average, rather than the 7.7 day, your pony express loses a lot more chunks. Plus, I don't recall it being specified as one every four hours.

Yes, the jump duration is an issue. Over a the long haul (dozens or hundreds of jumps), this time variance will tend to average out, so overall the average time spent in Jump should be very close to 7 days. Significant deviation should be rare, and I've ignored it.

I dealt with the scheduling issue - of "just missing" a scheduled departure and thereby incurring a very large delay - by assuming that an an X-boat station dispatches an outbound X-boat at regular intervals (the "dispatch rate") regardless of whether or not an inbound X-boat has been received. This means that no matter when a message comes in, there will be an outbound ship available to pick up the message and take it.

This also means that the x-boat system has to devote a LOT of boats to each link:

For departures every 24 hours, there will be a maximum of 8 boats in Jumps at any one time. Boats dispatched 24 hours apart may arrive as close as simultaneously, or as far apart as 2.4 days apart, so in addition to the ships in Jump, there must be 2 ships in the maintenance pipeline, 1 ship ready to depart, and 1 spare to allow boats to be rotated through annual maintenance, for a total of 12 ships in each direction per link - 24 boats per link all told. These boats will also require an X-boat Tender at each side of the link, for an infrastructure cost of 2.19 billion credits per link. The link will require a message center and support from fuel shuttles to be operational. Maintaining this frequency with J-6 IN couriers would cost 6.13 billion credits per link, plus considerably more fuel shuttle support.

Roughly the same logic holds for ships dispatched every 6 hours, but there will be as many as 31 boats in Jump, 7 in the maintenance pipeline, 1 ready to depart, and 2 spares, for a total of 41 per direction, or 82 per link. Each link will also require 2 X-boat Tenders on each side of the link, and quite a number of fuel shuttles. With X-boats and tenders, this link costs 6.78 billion credits; with IN couriers, 20.96 billion.

With this approach, the minimum hand-off delay for a "pony express" style transfer is equal to the time it takes to relay the message from the inbound ship to the message center to the outbound ship. The maximum delay will be this amount of time plus the time between scheduled departures. The average hand-off will be this transmission time plus half of the time between scheduled departures. Assuming a 1-hour transmission time, the hand-off time for a 6-hour schedule is 4 hours; for a 24 hour schedule it is 13 hours.

I don't recall what the frequency of X-boat departures is. A figure of 6 hours between departures sticks in my mind, but I can't recall where I read it, so I'm prepared to be corrected if someone has a better reference.
 
Just so that everyone has the model that I'm working with so far, here are the equations. I have it set up in Soulver for Mac; it could easily be set up in a spreadsheet as well.

JUMP = 4
NAVEFF = 67.5%
AVGJUMP = NAVEFF × JUMP
XMITTIME = 1
DISPATCHRATE = 10
HANDOFF = XMITTIME + DISPATCHRATE/2
JUMPSPERYEAR = 365 / (7+HANDOFF/24)
AVGSPEED = JUMP × NAVEFF × JUMPSPERYEAR/52
SHIPSINJUMP = ceil(185/DISPATCHRATE)
PIPELINE = ceil((34 + DISPATCHRATE)/DISPATCHRATE)
SPARES = ceil((SHIPSINJUMP + PIPELINE + 1)/25)
SHIPSPERLINK = 2 × (SHIPSINJUMP + PIPELINE + 1 + SPARES)
TENDERSPERLINK = 2 × ceil(PIPELINE/4)
COSTPERLINKXBOAT = 70.65 × SHIPSPERLINK + 274.77 × TENDERSPERLINK
COSTPERLINKCOURIER = 255.55 × SHIPSPERLINK

The key input parameters are JUMP, NAVEFF, XMITTIME, and DISPATCHRATE. The key output parameter is AVGSPEED.

JUMP represents the maximum possible jump capacity of the vessel (or combination of vessels) carrying the message. Canonically this is 4 for X-boats, 6 for Imperial Navy couriers circa 1100.

NAVEFF represents the "Navigational efficiency" of the overall message network. Typical network NavEff values are:
97.5% likely maximum for any "real world" course,
87.5% for a dedicated courier on a typical route across the Imperium,
82.5% for the Imperial Navy's base-to-base courier network, and
67.5% for the X-boat network as observed circa 1100.
The 87.5%, 82.5% and 67.5% efficiencies result in figures that are a close match for the message transmission speeds given for ImperialLines Type TJ, Imperial Navy couriers, and the IISS X-boat system in MT Rebellion Sourcebook.

XMITTIME is the time in hours to transmit a message from an inbound ship to an outbound ship. Assumed to be 1 hour for IISS "pony express" relays. For commercial shipping, I suggest a value between 1 and 4 hours as the typical time to transfer messages from an inbound ship to an outbound ship. Use 24 hours for dedicated couriers that do not transfer messages to another ship.

DISPATCHRATE is the time between scheduled departures, in hours. Canonically, 6 hours is the minimum time in the X-boat network circa 1100, but 10 hours is the overall average for the X-boat network over long distances. For commercial shipping, input the average time between departures, in hours. For a dedicated courier that does not transfer messages to another ship, enter 0 but note that this will cause errors in the number of ships calculations, because that only one ship is needed.

AVGSPEED is the primary output, and gives the actual average message transmission speed of the network, in parsecs per week. Note that this will always be lower than JUMP and AVGJUMP due to delays in handing off messages from one link to another.
 
I've enjoyed this discussion and it has forced me to examine my assumptions and sharpen my arguments, but I don't think there's much more I can say without repeating myself.

I may or may not post a summation of my position in a separate thread. Right now I'm torn between wanting to get all my ducks in a row while the memory is sharp and feeling that it would be a bit of a chore.


Hans
 
Guy, using your figures for handoffs, what would be the speed of information transmission by civilian J5 and J6 traffic and for J5 and J6 couriers?


Hans
 
[
I've enjoyed this discussion and it has forced me to examine my assumptions and sharpen my arguments, but I don't think there's much more I can say without repeating myself.

As have I, and agreed.

Guy, using your figures for handoffs, what would be the speed of information transmission by civilian J5 and J6 traffic and for J5 and J6 couriers?

Here's the outputs from a whole set of runs, with varying assumptions. Note that all figures are averages over the very long haul - corresponding to dozens of jumps or traveling halfway across the Imperium or more. Over shorter distances, the varying performance of individual ships and links won't average out, resulting in far different travel times (for example, crossing a prosperous cluster it may take only a smidgen over 3 weeks to traverse 18 parsecs by J-6 liner, but crossing a backwater on a Subsidized Merchant, it may take 16 weeks to cross 8 parsecs).

XBOATS - Assumes a "pony express" style message hand-off. All runs use XMITTIME=1 hour, DISPATCHRATE=10 hours.

J-4: X-boat Network AVGSPEED=2.6 parsecs/week; Navy network AVGSPEED=3.2 parsecs/week.
J-5: X-boat Network AVGSPEED=3.3 parsecs/week; Navy network AVGSPEED=4.0 parsecs/week.
J-6: X-boat Network AVGSPEED=3.9 parsecs/week; Navy network AVGSPEED=4.8 parsecs/week.

Note:The J-4 X-boat Network case approximates the figures given in MT:Rebellion Sourcebook for x-boat message transmission speeds.

COMMERCIAL ASSUMPTION 1 - Assumes a "pony express" style message hand-off. All runs use XMITTIME=2 hours (not that transmission is slower, but that commercial passenger liners have other things to do immediately before and after Jump, so will not transfer messages as promptly as Xboats) and DISPATCHRATE=24 hours (to reflect daily scheduled ships). Also assumes a randomly-determined network of high-population worlds. Links between worlds may not always operate at maximum possible jump if suitable worlds are closer than JUMP parsecs. There are assumed to be no gaps in the network - either suitable high-population worlds are never more than JUMP parsecs apart, or some links operate at a loss, perhaps under subsidy). Navigational efficiency is assumed to be comparable to X-boat (67.5%) or Navy (82.5%) networks, since both of these are randomly determined. JUMP-3 networks are included because a J-3 passenger liner is a canonical Traveller design.

J-3: Low-efficency network AVGSPEED=1.9 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=2.3 parsecs/week.
J-4: Low-efficency network AVGSPEED=2.5 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=3.1 parsecs/week.
J-5: Low-efficency network AVGSPEED=3.1 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=3.8 parsecs/week.
J-6: Low-efficency network AVGSPEED=3.7 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=4.6 parsecs/week.

COMMERCIAL ASSUMPTION 2 - Same as assumption 1, except profitable clusters are assumed to be 18 parsecs in diameter, separated by 8 parsec gaps. Gaps in the network are covered by a mixture of free traders, far traders, and subsidized merchants averaging 1.3 parsecs per jump, further reducing navigational efficiency of the network.

J-3: Low-efficency (NAVEFF=48.1%) network AVGSPEED=1.3 parsecs/week; Improved network (NAVEFF=58.8%) AVGSPEED=1.6 parsecs/week.
J-4: Low-efficency (NAVEFF=41.2%) network AVGSPEED=1.5 parsecs/week; Improved network (NAVEFF=50.3%) AVGSPEED=1.9 parsecs/week.
J-5: Low-efficency (NAVEFF=36.0%) network AVGSPEED=1.7 parsecs/week; Improved network (NAVEFF=44.0%) AVGSPEED=2.0 parsecs/week.
J-6: Low-efficency (NAVEFF=31.9%) network AVGSPEED=1.8 parsecs/week; Improved network (NAVEFF=39.0%) AVGSPEED=2.2 parsecs/week.

Note:I suspect that non-X-boat message performance in the Imperium circa 1100 falls somewhere in the range indicated by Commercial Assumption 2 and Commercial Assumption 3. Freight and passenger movement is slower due to longer times required to physically move freight and passengers. Using XMITTIME=48 hours to handle passengers, luggage, and express freight, produces the following chart. Note that ordinary (non-expedited) freight would move even more slowly.

J-3: Low-efficency freight and passenger AVGSPEED=1.1 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=1.3 parsecs/week.
J-4: Low-efficency freight and passenger AVGSPEED=1.2 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=1.5 parsecs/week.
J-5: Low-efficency freight and passenger AVGSPEED=1.3 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=1.6parsecs/week.
J-6: Low-efficency freight and passenger AVGSPEED=1.4 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=1.7 parsecs/week.

COMMERCIAL ASSUMPTION 3 - The same as assumption 2, including navigational efficiencies, except that that one link in each gap has departures every other day, and one link in each gap has weekly service. Overall this drops average speeds by about 0.1 parsec/week compared to assumption 2.

J-3: Low-efficency network AVGSPEED=1.2 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=1.5 parsecs/week.
J-4: Low-efficency network AVGSPEED=1.4 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=1.8 parsecs/week.
J-5: Low-efficency network AVGSPEED=1.6 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=1.9 parsecs/week.
J-6: Low-efficency network AVGSPEED=1.7 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=2.1 parsecs/week.

J-3: Low-efficency freight and passenger AVGSPEED=1.0 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=1.2 parsecs/week.
J-4: Low-efficency freight and passenger AVGSPEED=1.1 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=1.4 parsecs/week.
J-5: Low-efficency freight and passenger AVGSPEED=1.2 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=1.6 parsecs/week.
J-6: Low-efficency freight and passenger AVGSPEED=1.3 parsecs/week; Improved network AVGSPEED=1.6 parsecs/week.

Note:The J-3 version of Commercial Assumption 3 in my opinion approximates the best available commercial message transmission, express freight, and premium passenger service in the Imperium prior to the establishment of the X-boat system, and in some regions (particularly the frontiers) it may have been considerably slower.

COURIER NETWORK - Assumes a "pony express" style message hand-off with XMITTIME=1 hour and departures every other day (DISPATCHRATE=48 hours). Note that by increasing the dispatch rate to 1 ship every 24 hours, these networks will approximate the performance of a dedicated point-to-point courier to within 0.1 parsec/week. Increasing the dispatch rate will also roughly double the cost of maintaining the network. Two navigational efficiencies were used, corresponding to Imperial Navy base-to-base networks (82.5%) and a hypothetical optimized network with some deep-space caches (87.5%) similar to the routing a dedicated courier might take.

J-4: Navy network AVGSPEED=2.9 parsecs/week; Optimized network AVGSPEED=3.1 parsecs/week.
J-5: Navy network AVGSPEED=3.6 parsecs/week; Optimized network AVGSPEED=3.8 parsecs/week.
J-6: Navy network AVGSPEED=4.3 parsecs/week; Optimized network AVGSPEED=4.6 parsecs/week.

Note:The J-6 NavyNetwork case approximates the figures given in MT:Rebellion Sourcebook for Naval courier transmission speeds.

DEDICATED COURIER - Assumes a dedicated courier ship operating on a point-to-point pre-surveyed course (XMITTIME=24 and DISPATCHRATE=0) with no ship changes. Two navigational efficiencies were used, corresponding an optimized course with some deep-space caches (87.5%), and a theoretic maximum under ideal conditions (97.5%).

J-4: Optimized course AVGSPEED=3.1 parsecs/week; Ideal conditions AVGSPEED=3.2 parsecs/week.
J-5: Optimized course AVGSPEED=3.8 parsecs/week; Ideal conditions AVGSPEED=4.3 parsecs/week.
J-6: Optimized course AVGSPEED=4.6 parsecs/week; Ideal conditions AVGSPEED=5.1 parsecs/week.

Note:The J-6 optimized course approximates the figures given in MT:Rebellion Sourcebook for ImperialLines Type TJ message transmission speeds.
 
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