MGT Only: FFW: Zhodani destroyers?
- Thread starter Redcap
- Start date
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
I can't recall any official MgT2 designs.
How about this, as a reimagined Vlezhdatl "Strike Cruiser":
2500 Dt, J-2, M-6, Armour 14, Hull 1100, MCr 1875
Good sensors (DM+5) and ECM (DM+8) with backups and 8 operators.
Computer Core/90 and backup Core/40/fib with full software suite.
Three bays, one Particle (8D, Accurate +1) and two Missile (launches 48).
20 turrets/barbettes (space reserved for 20 barbettes), here
_ 10 Particle (Accurate +1) barbettes against fighters and
_ 10 Pulse Laser (Long Range) turrets against missiles.
2 PD Batteries, kills 3D missiles each.
2 Sub-Command Centres, e.g. dedicated to barbette and turrets (+1 on checks)
8 Nuclear Dampers against Nukes and Fusion Guns.
2 Vlezhdest Fighters
2 Utility Gigs
Limited storage 21 Dt.
Crew: 152, including 14 officers and 48 troops.
Not optimised for any particular role, but reasonably combat effective.
Due to limited jump and storage it often operated in groups of three with a dedicated tanker/tender to extend range and mission endurance.
How about this, as a reimagined Vlezhdatl "Strike Cruiser":
2500 Dt, J-2, M-6, Armour 14, Hull 1100, MCr 1875
Good sensors (DM+5) and ECM (DM+8) with backups and 8 operators.
Computer Core/90 and backup Core/40/fib with full software suite.
Three bays, one Particle (8D, Accurate +1) and two Missile (launches 48).
20 turrets/barbettes (space reserved for 20 barbettes), here
_ 10 Particle (Accurate +1) barbettes against fighters and
_ 10 Pulse Laser (Long Range) turrets against missiles.
2 PD Batteries, kills 3D missiles each.
2 Sub-Command Centres, e.g. dedicated to barbette and turrets (+1 on checks)
8 Nuclear Dampers against Nukes and Fusion Guns.
2 Vlezhdest Fighters
2 Utility Gigs
Limited storage 21 Dt.
Crew: 152, including 14 officers and 48 troops.
Not optimised for any particular role, but reasonably combat effective.
Due to limited jump and storage it often operated in groups of three with a dedicated tanker/tender to extend range and mission endurance.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Vlezhdest (Star Prince) Fighter:
35.2 Dt, M-9, Armour 14+Reflec, Hull 17, MCr 36.
Reaction drive-16 with 8 turn fuel. Additional fuel can be carried in drop tanks.
Very basic sensors (DM -4).
Small computer m/15 with m/10fib backup and small selection of software.
Fusion barbette (5D, Long Range).
Crew: 2.
35.2 Dt, M-9, Armour 14+Reflec, Hull 17, MCr 36.
Reaction drive-16 with 8 turn fuel. Additional fuel can be carried in drop tanks.
Very basic sensors (DM -4).
Small computer m/15 with m/10fib backup and small selection of software.
Fusion barbette (5D, Long Range).
Crew: 2.
Thanks for the fast reply
I've got a CT LBB 5 design for a strike destroyer (5,000 ton hull), but no real way to convert it directly across without spending inordinate amounts of time I don't have working it up from scratch in MgT HG2e, which is annoying (to say the least).This said, that CS of yours is interesting; I've never understood why anything short of a carrier would need fighters (heck, I've never understood the need for any non-carrier to have them) - Guess I'm old-fashioned
However, as you say, it's a tad short on legs, which is a problem, as the vessel I have in mind for this adventure will be encountered, operating independently, doing a little deep penetration work in the 5FW, and will need minimum J-3, ideally J-4 (my CT LBB HG design is a J-3, and carries two 50-ton armed cutters for boarding actions).
Thoughts?
This is the CT LBB HG2e design for the DS I mentioned above (note it scrolls off to the right in that text box!):
Code:
Ship: Badreapr
Class: Badreapr
Type: Strike Destroyer
Architect: Roger Stenning
Tech Level: 14
USP
DS-E2333D5-270103-70909-0 MCr 4,870.745 5 KTons
Bat Bear 1 1 1 1 2 Crew: 94
Bat 1 1 1 1 2 TL: 14
Cargo: 329.500 Crew Sections: 5 of 19 Frozen Watch Fuel: 2,150 EP: 150 Agility: 1 Shipboard Security Detail: 5 Marines: 30
Craft: 2 x 50T Armed Cutter
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification
Backups: 1 x 2G Maneuver Drive 1 x Jump 2 Drive 1 x Factor 2 Power Plant 1 x Model/3fib Computer 1 x Bridge
Architects Fee: MCr 48.007 Cost in Quantity: MCr 3,910.596
Detailed Description
(High Guard Design)
HULL
5,000.000 tons standard, 70,000.000 cubic meters, Cone Configuration
CREW
14 Officers, 50 Ratings, 30 Marines
ENGINEERING
Jump-3, 3G Manuever, Power plant-3, 150.000 EP, Agility 1
1 x Jump-2 Backup, 1 x 2 G Manuever Backup, 1 x Power plant-2 Backup
AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/4fib Computer
1 Backup Bridge, 1 Model/3fib Backup Computer
HARDPOINTS
1 100-ton bay, 3 50-ton bays, 10 Hardpoints
ARMAMENT
1 x 100-ton Particle Accelerator Bay (Factor-9), 2 x 50-ton Missile Bays (Factor-9), 5 x Triple Beam Laser Turrets organised into 1 Battery (Factor-7)
DEFENCES
1 x 50-ton Repulsor Bay (Factor-3), 5 x Triple Sandcaster Turrets organised into 1 Battery (Factor-7), 1 x Nuclear Damper (Factor-1), Armoured Hull (Factor-2)
CRAFT
2 x 50.000 ton Armed Cutter (Each with Crew of 2, Cost of MCr 35.000)
FUEL
2,150 Tons Fuel (4 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant
MISCELLANEOUS
51 Staterooms, 19 Low Berths, 329 Tons Cargo
USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None
COST
MCr 4,848.752 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 48.007), MCr 3,840.596 in Quantity, plus MCr 70.000 of Carried Craft (Hardpoints and Turrets charged)
CONSTRUCTION TIME
148 Weeks Singly, 118 Weeks in Quantity
COMMENTS
Strike Destroyer, designed for independent actions, primarily intended for use as a medium reconnaissance ship in advance of a main attack fleet, and in more domestic anti-piracy operations. Cargo space is for long-term consumables such as food, wwater, munitions/ammunition, engineering spares, and captured 'booty'/evidence.
Badreapr Class Strike Destroyer
Book 5 Crew Breakdown
Command section: 7 officers and 4 ratings; Engineering section: 2 officers and 13 ratings; Gunnery section: 2 officers and 13 ratings; Flight section: 1 officers and 6 ratings; Service section: 1 officers and 9 ratings; Medical Section: 1 officers and 0 ratings; Marines: 30
HULL
Hull: 0.000 Td; MCr 550.000
Armour Factor-2: 150.000 Td; MCr 75.000
ENGINEERING
M-Drive Factor-3: 400.000 Td; MCr 200.000
J-Drive Factor-3: 200.000 Td; MCr 800.000
P-Plant Factor-3: 300.000 Td; MCr 900.000; +150.000 EP
1 x Backup M-Drive Factor-2: 250.000 Td; MCr 175.000
1 x Backup J-Drive Factor-2: 150.000 Td; MCr 600.000
1 x Backup P-Plant Factor-2: 200.000 Td; MCr 1,200.000
FUEL
P-Fuel: 150.000 Td; MCr 0,000
J-Fuel: 2,000.000 Td; MCr 0.000
Scoops: 0.000 Td; MCr 5.000
Purification: 5.000 Td; MCr 0.035
L-Hyd Drop Tanks: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.000
AVIONICS
Bridge: 100.000 Td; MCr 25.000
Computer Model/4fib: 8.000 Td; MCr 45.000; -2 EP
1 x Backup Bridge: 100.000 Td; MCr 25.000
1 x Backup Computer Model/3fib: 6.000 Td; MCr 27.000
WEAPONRY
1 x 100T Particle Accelerator Bays: 100.000 Td; MCr 36.000; -60 EP
1 x 50T Repulsor Bays: 50.000 Td; MCr 6.500; -5 EP
2 x 50T Missile Bays: 100.000 Td; MCr 25.000
5 x Laser Turrets: 5.000 Td; MCr 20.500; -15 EP
5 x Sand Turrets: 5.000 Td; MCr 9.250
SCREENS
Nuclear Damper Factor-1: 50.000 Td; MCr 50.000; -10.000 EP
CRAFT
1 x Armed Cutter: 65.000Td; MCr 0.130; Cost of craft: MCr 35.000
1 x Armed Cutter: 65.000Td; MCr 0.130; Cost of craft: MCr 35.000
ACCOMODATIONS
51 x Staterooms: 202.000 Td; MCr 25.250
19 x Low Berths: 9.500 Td; MCr 0.950
Cargo: 329.500 Td; MCr 0.000
USER DEFINEDAnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
I stared with this: https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Z.I.S.M.V._Vlezhdatl
Many small Zho designs carry fighters. The Zho seems to like fighters...
Many small Zho designs carry fighters. The Zho seems to like fighters...
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
A quickie conversion of your design would be:
5000 Dt, J-3, M-6, Armour 14, Hull 2200, MCr 3800
Backup drives: J-2, M-2, PP-2. Backup bridge.
Good sensors (DM+5) and ECM (DM+8) with backups and 15 operators.
Computer Core/90 and backup Core/40/fib with full software suite.
Three bays, one Particle (8D, Accurate +1) and two Missile (launches 48).
40 turrets/barbettes (space reserved for 20 barbettes), here
_ 20 Particle (Accurate +1) barbettes against fighters and
_ 20 Pulse Laser (Long Range) turrets against missiles.
7 PD Batteries, kills 3D missiles each.
3 Sub-Command Centres, e.g. dedicated to barbette, turrets, and sensors (+1 on checks)
10 Nuclear Dampers against Nukes and Fusion Guns.
2 Utility Cutters
Storage 157 Dt. A few extra staterooms and medical low berths.
Crew: 114, including 11 officers and 30 troops. (Note: Used reduced crew for large ships.) 10 staterooms are enhanced for psions.
Not optimised for any particular role, but reasonably combat effective.
I added armour and M-6 drive, fairly cheap and very useful in combat, almost mandatory. I didn't manage J-4 without severely compromising combat performance.
5000 Dt, J-3, M-6, Armour 14, Hull 2200, MCr 3800
Backup drives: J-2, M-2, PP-2. Backup bridge.
Good sensors (DM+5) and ECM (DM+8) with backups and 15 operators.
Computer Core/90 and backup Core/40/fib with full software suite.
Three bays, one Particle (8D, Accurate +1) and two Missile (launches 48).
40 turrets/barbettes (space reserved for 20 barbettes), here
_ 20 Particle (Accurate +1) barbettes against fighters and
_ 20 Pulse Laser (Long Range) turrets against missiles.
7 PD Batteries, kills 3D missiles each.
3 Sub-Command Centres, e.g. dedicated to barbette, turrets, and sensors (+1 on checks)
10 Nuclear Dampers against Nukes and Fusion Guns.
2 Utility Cutters
Storage 157 Dt. A few extra staterooms and medical low berths.
Crew: 114, including 11 officers and 30 troops. (Note: Used reduced crew for large ships.) 10 staterooms are enhanced for psions.
Not optimised for any particular role, but reasonably combat effective.
I added armour and M-6 drive, fairly cheap and very useful in combat, almost mandatory. I didn't manage J-4 without severely compromising combat performance.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
In Mongoose fighters can be lethal even to battleships.This said, that CS of yours is interesting; I've never understood why anything short of a carrier would need fighters (heck, I've never understood the need for any non-carrier to have them) - Guess I'm old-fashioned
They are also quite useful to extend your sensor range.
OK, upgraded a bit (thanks to you and CliffBates (off-list)!). Changed hull format from cone to needle/wedge. Replaced all sand casters with lasers, replaced all missiles with additional PA bays; added two fighters, repurposed empty space to additional ships stores.
Reasoning: From the wiki at https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Destroyer#Supraclass_Archtypes
The Badreapr class DS is the Zhodani answer to a deep-penetration destroyer, tasked with sneaking into a target system and having "a quick shufti" to see what's there to oppose an attacking force. It has no need of traditional missile armaments, and will do its best to stay out of the range of missiles, favouring it's particle accelerator to keep at beyond stand-off ranges while it prepared to jump out of trouble. It carries marines for boarding actions against lesser-capable opponents, and to perform reconnaissance missions, using the 50-ton armed cutters to ferry them to and from their insertion and extraction points (dropping them in orbit using grav-chute-equipped orbital personal re-entry kits if necessary; see MegaTraveller Journal 3 page 74, (c) DGP March 1992).
Code:
Ship: Badreapr
Class: Badreapr
Type: Strike Destroyer
Architect: Roger Stenning
Tech Level: 14
USP
DS-E1347D5-200103-70900-0 MCr 4,971.818 5 KTons
Bat Bear 1 1 3 Crew: 102
Bat 1 1 3 TL: 14
Cargo: 0 Crew Sections: 5 of 21 Frozen Watch Fuel: 1,850 EP: 350 Agility: 2 Shipboard Security Detail: 5 Marines: 30 Pulse Lasers
Craft: 2 x 50T Armed Cutters, 2 x 25T Baql class Light Fighters
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification
Backups: 1 x 2G Maneuver Drive 1 x Factor 3 Power Plant 1 x Model/3fib Computer
Architects Fee: MCr 47.866 Cost in Quantity: MCr 4,014.494
Detailed Description
(High Guard Design)
HULL
5,000.000 tons standard, 70,000.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration
CREW
14 Officers, 58 Ratings, 30 Marines
ENGINEERING
Jump-3, 4G Manuever, Power plant-7, 350.000 EP, Agility 2
12 G Manuever Backup, 1 Power plant-3 Backup
AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/4fib Computer
1 Model/3fib Backup Computer
HARDPOINTS
3 100-ton bays, 1 50-ton bay, 10 Hardpoints
ARMAMENT
3 100-ton Particle Accelerator Bays (Factor-9), 10 Triple Pulse Laser Turrets organised into 1 Battery (Factor-7)
DEFENCES
1 50-ton Repulsor Bay (Factor-3), Nuclear Damper (Factor-1), Armoured Hull (Factor-2)
CRAFT
2 50.000 ton Armed Cutters (Crew of 2, Cost of MCr 35.000), 2 25.000 ton Baql class Light Fighters (Crew of 1, Cost of MCr 57.600)
FUEL
1,850 Tons Fuel (3 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant
MISCELLANEOUS
54.5 Staterooms, 49 Low Berths, 0 Ton Cargo
USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
1 Additional ships stores and food/water supplies (34.500 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 0.000)
COST
MCr 4,834.484 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 47.866), MCr 3,829.294 in Quantity, plus MCr 185.200 of Carried Craft
CONSTRUCTION TIME
148 Weeks Singly, 118 Weeks in Quantity
COMMENTS
Strike Destroyer, designed for independent actions, primarily intended for use
as a medium reconnaissance ship in advance of a main attack fleet, and in
deep penetration attacks as part of a small group (5-ship sqn) of similar
classed ships. Not intended to engage in combat with ships of the line of
similar or larger tonnage/capabilities other than to "shoot and scoot".
Badreapr Class Strike Destroyer
Book 5 Crew Breakdown
Command section: 7 officers and 4 ratings; Engineering section: 2 officers and 18 ratings; Gunnery section: 2 officers and 12 ratings; Flight section: 1 officers and 10 ratings; Service section: 1 officers and 9 ratings; Medical Section: 1 officers and 0 ratings; Marines: 30
HULL
Hull: 0.000 Td; MCr 600.000
Armour Factor-2: 150.000 Td; MCr 75.000
ENGINEERING
M-Drive Factor-4: 550.000 Td; MCr 275.000
J-Drive Factor-3: 200.000 Td; MCr 800.000
P-Plant Factor-7: 700.000 Td; MCr 2,100.000; +350.000 EP
1 x Backup M-Drive Factor-2: 250.000 Td; MCr 175.000
1 x Backup P-Plant Factor-3: 300.000 Td; MCr 450.000
FUEL
P-Fuel: 350.000 Td; MCr 0,000
J-Fuel: 1,500.000 Td; MCr 0.000
Scoops: 0.000 Td; MCr 5.000
Purification: 4.000 Td; MCr 0.028
L-Hyd Drop Tanks: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.000
AVIONICS
Bridge: 100.000 Td; MCr 25.000
Computer Model/4fib: 8.000 Td; MCr 45.000; -2 EP
1 x Backup Computer Model/3fib: 6.000 Td; MCr 27.000
WEAPONRY
3 x 100T Particle Accelerator Bays: 300.000 Td; MCr 108.000; -180 EP
1 x 50T Repulsor Bays: 50.000 Td; MCr 6.500; -5 EP
10 x Laser Turrets: 10.000 Td; MCr 15.000; -30 EP
SCREENS
Nuclear Damper Factor-1: 50.000 Td; MCr 50.000; -10.000 EP
CRAFT
2 x Armed Cutter: 130.000Td; MCr 0.260; Cost of craft: MCr 70.000
2 x Baql class Light Fighter: 65.000Td; MCr 0.130; Cost of craft: MCr 115.200
ACCOMODATIONS
54.5 x Staterooms: 218.000 Td; MCr 27.250
49 x Low Berths: 24.500 Td; MCr 2.450
Cargo: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.000
USER DEFINED
1 x Additional ships stores and food/water supplies: 34.500 Td; MCr 0.000; -0.000 EPOh, and I'm using High Guard Ships 1.3.1.4 to redesign this
Pity there isn;t a similar package for MgT HG2e. Oh, well.
Last edited:
GAGH. Just noticed this, apologies. I LIKE the M-6, very nice, and I take your earlier point regarding Zho designs and their love of fighters in everything, including, by the look of it, the dessert course
J-3 is about good enough for it, agreed J-4 would be better!
What did you use to design this?
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
I would call this way too big and expensive for something that can't fight. It is also unable to retreat without refuelling, even an SDB or two could prevent that.
With CT I would use something like this:
J-3, but J-4 fuel, so it can do J-2, look around, and jump out again.
M-6, Size A, max computer so it is difficult to hit.
Armour 4 so it is safe from Internal Explosions.
Minimal Screens to guard against nasty surprises, such as Meson Bays.
Only Agility-2, but Emergency Agility-6 to be able to run away.
Single batteries to require lots of hits to suppress it.
Basically only large factor nuke missile batteries (and spinals) can really hurt it.
Code:
FS-A1366H2-474400-55007-0 MCr 1 727 1 900 Dton
bearing 1 11 1 Crew=41
batteries 1 11 1 TL=14
Troops=10 Cargo=236 Fuel=684 EP=114 Agility=2
Dual Occupancy 236,3 1727,4
USP # Dton Cost
Hull Custom A 1900
Configuration Needle/Wedge 1 228
Scoops Streamlined 1,9
Armour 4 4 95 66,5
Jump Drive 3 1 76 304
Manoeuvre D 6 1 323 161,5
Power Plant 6 1 228 684
Fuel, #J, #weeks J-3, 4 weeks 3 684
Purifier 1 13,7 0,1
Bridge 1 38 9,5
Computer m/8fib H 1 22 140
Staterooms 6 24 3
Staterooms, Half 45 90 11,3
Cargo 236,3
Collapsible Tanks 200 Dton 1 2 0,1
Turret-3 Missile 10 Turrets 7 1 10 22,5
Turret-3 Beam 2 Turrets 5 1 2 6
Turret-1 Fusion 1 Turret 5 1 2 2
Turret-3 Sand 4 Turrets 7 1 4 3
Nuclear Damper 4 1 8 30
Meson Screen 4 1 16 40
Launch 20 Dton 1 26 14,1
Nominal Cost MCr 1727,4 Sum: 1727,4
Class Cost MCr 359,81 Valid ≥0 ≥0
Ship Cost MCr 1384,72
Crew & High 0 Crew Bridge 10
Passengers Mid 0 41 Engineers 7
Low 0 Gunners 17
Extra SR 0 Frozen Service 4
# Frozen W 0 0 Flight 3
Marines 10 Marines 10Hmm. More a corvette (see https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Stalwart_class_Corvette ) than a destroyer, imho, but I get the idea.
OK, lets look at this from another view. I need a Zho ship that can get into a system from a distance of minimum J-3; it must be reasonably militarily agile, and while on extended operations away from resupply of munitions, have an effective one-two punch to at least its own weight, preferably one level above, for at least two major engagements without using missiles it cannot resupply without abandoning its mission early, and be able to GTFO again on the hurry-up if necessary. It must have the ability to launch boarding parties, and be capable of conducting a full reconnoitre without drawing unwelcome attention on itself. Endurance-wise, it must have the capability to operate at longer distances than usual from its base of operations or fleet, so should figure on holding two months of supplies for its crew at the minimum.
I'm thinking that this might fit into the classic definition of a pocket battle cruiser (Real world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland-class_cruiser)? Thoughts?
Last edited:
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I haven't checked this so I will edit this post later if necessary, but off the top of my head the 'canon' sources for Zhodani ships would be GURPS Traveller, Power Projection: Fleet and Squadron Strike: Traveller.
The Zhodani fleet is listed as:
1 Viepchakl BB
2 Kefchenzh CA
2 Zhdavidlits CL
8 Zhdiak DH
I'll have to go dig out the books to get the stats for the Zhdiak DH
The Zhodani fleet is listed as:
1 Viepchakl BB
2 Kefchenzh CA
2 Zhdavidlits CL
8 Zhdiak DH
I'll have to go dig out the books to get the stats for the Zhdiak DH
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
I use corvette for <1000 Dt, frigate for <~3000 Dt. YMMV.
Presuming MgT2 the major kill-vectors are spinals, missiles, and fighters.
A Panzerschiff is a baby capital ship, so presumably a spinal, and much larger than a destroyer. I think we can build a reasonable ship with a minimal spinal at about 30 kDt.
How about a mini-carrier with stealthed fighters? It can get into and out of systems with minimal risk of detection, and send stealthed fighters to scan the system without risking the ship. The fighters still pack a considerable punch, much better than a few bays.
Something like this:
6000 Dt, J-3, M-6, not combat capable, MCr 5200.
Stealthed hull, Stealth jump drive.
Drop tank capable to be able to jump into a system with full tanks.
Plenty of space for people and cargo.
Capacity for 20 small craft of 35 Dt, e.g. 16 fighter/sensors and 4 utility/boarding craft.
The fighters should be able to kill a destroyer. Not even remotely optimised, but should work?
Huh. The Zhdiak looks a little like that ship on Stargate: Universe :rofl: Anyhow, I've had a quick look at the wiki on it, but it's a little light.
The Zhdavidlits is somewhat bigger than I'd like, the Kefchenzh is waaaaaay too big (14,000 tons?!), ditto the Viepchakl (200,000 tons?! WOW).
So, no joy there, sadly, but even so, thanks for replying
Hmm. There's an evil idea... I am a tad leery on the idea of sending a carrier into an unknown place on its todd, but even so, that's a remarkably ballsy idea... and not a little out of the box, too, come to think of it. "Would, though, the Zho's do this?" is the next question, mind you
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
The Shivva class is a staple from CT. It is a small ship carrying light fighters.
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