Finally got my Rulebook and tried to read it...

[aramis]

Good for them. I generally work PSK-31 on 20 and 15 meters, if I can. 10 meters has picked up a little, especially in the more favorable parts of the cycle. The FCC needs to let Tech+'s work 10, 12, 15, and 17 meters without restrictions. My IC-7200, plus software (usually HRD), allows digital contacts to be made worldwide, with very efficient use of spectrum, on less than 20 W (normally 5-10 W). All on a G5RV, less than 30' up.

I did not need my EE to figure out my shack. I've only been playing with RF since 1965... You really should not need my EE or AE (or my silver wings) to be able to figure out how to play an RPG. I've only refereed Traveller since 1978, so what would I know about the game?

I've only been the mic-man... I never went for my CAP Comm Badge. (I just served as mission communicator for 2 dozen practices, 3 live SAR missions, and 1 DR Mission. Oh, and a lost aviator mission - the map and his eyes didn't match. (He was at the wrong airport.)

 

[aramis]

But you're a gamer. Or maybe you're not, which explains things. Regardless, I have to block you now. Added to the T5 lovers list.

[m;]Comments like this are NEVER appropriate on COTI.[/m;]

It's a personal attack - and it's been reported by 3rd parties. The only reason this is not being infracted is that DonM asked me not to. This is a public warning for everyone.

You're free to express an opinion honestly and openly about the products, the rules, and the ideas, but the moment it dips into questioning the person directly, it becomes a personal attack.

Further...

[m;]It is not appropriate to publicly list who you've blocked, to threaten publicly to block someone, nor to disparage others based upon their preferred traveller system.[/m;]

 

[Daddicus]

...
It's very cerebral, and modern gamers don't like to have to think.

My apologies if anybody took this comment personally. Reading it again, it seems like that may have occurred. Sorry about that.

What I meant was to draw a contrast between old-school "Avalon Hill, 10,000 square counters on a hexagonal map" gamers (like myself), and the more modern action-oriented, "let me conquer this thing" gamers. Modern (or younger?) gamers very much want to dive right into a game and beat on it, vs. well, guys like me: I live in the game manuals.

I want to dig into the details and nuances of a game. I don't play MMOs so much for the end of the storyline, nor even for the end-game "get lots of stuff" part. No, I want to go read all those missions and quests, just to see how things fit together.

So, to me T5 is like a giant spider web, drawing me ever deeper into it. 'Cept there's no spider to eat me; there's just intricate webbing, stories, backgrounds, etc. I can imagine myself not playing this for a year and still learning stuff from it.

Most people would call that crazy. ... They're probably right.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

[m;]Comments like this are NEVER appropriate on COTI.[/m;]

It's a personal attack - and it's been reported by 3rd parties. The only reason this is not being infracted is that DonM asked me not to. This is a public warning for everyone.

You're free to express an opinion honestly and openly about the products, the rules, and the ideas, but the moment it dips into questioning the person directly, it becomes a personal attack.

Further...

[m;]It is not appropriate to publicly list who you've blocked, to threaten publicly to block someone, nor to disparage others based upon their preferred traveller system.[/m;]

I'd whole heartedly agree Aramis. Just because someone is a gamer or a lover of T5 (I myself am), doesn't mean they should be discriminated against. We all have our likes and dislikes. It's just part of being human. In any case, what is this person doing on a T5 thread if they don't like T5? Trying to put it down so they can continue worshipping CT and perhaps usher in more followers to the old system? I don't understand that. Everything evolves and moves forward. Gamers dedicated to a futuristic world of space exploration should surely welcome the chance to expand there favourite gaming system. At the end of the day if there's some things you don't like, you don't have to use them. It's an RPG with the only must being imagination. Everything else is icing on the celestial cake.


In any case, when I finally got my copy of T5 it was sensational and it's still sensational. A die hard science fiction RPG system for the die hard RPG player who's not afraid to put some work into there game and make it something special. There are no words or terms used that I find confusing and ultimately despite a handful of typos and obvious out of place numbers here and there, I get what the authors were aiming for and striving to achieve. Of course it could have been better in places but what gaming system have you ever bought that couldn't be? Overall it's a masterpiece and deserves to be acknowledged for what it is. A terrific new addition to the Traveller game system.

 

[robject]

What I meant was to draw a contrast between old-school "Avalon Hill, 10,000 square counters on a hexagonal map" gamers (like myself), and the more modern action-oriented, "let me conquer this thing" gamers. Modern (or younger?) gamers very much want to dive right into a game and beat on it, vs. well, guys like me: I live in the game manuals.

I want to dig into the details and nuances of a game. I don't play MMOs so much for the end of the storyline, nor even for the end-game "get lots of stuff" part. No, I want to go read all those missions and quests, just to see how things fit together.

So, to me T5 is like a giant spider web, drawing me ever deeper into it. 'Cept there's no spider to eat me; there's just intricate webbing, stories, backgrounds, etc. I can imagine myself not playing this for a year and still learning stuff from it.

That's an interesting take. But I think there's a third category, the category of "1978" gamer -- the one who likes Book 2 starship design, and Book 3 trade. The "Red Book" D&D player, maybe.

Lots of them are as old as the old-schoolers, but aren't 10,000 counters-on-the-map types.

Back to T5. I can see how T5 comes off as a big wall of rules. It's hard to sift its priorities, zero in on just what you need to get started, versus what's there for when you're digging in. So yes, as a rule-book, it is hard to use. As a reference, it is a gold mine.

When the rules were 120 pages long, we knew it was boiled down to essentials -- and we knew non-critical rules were left out. At 650 pages, it's a lot of stuff, and it all plays together, using the same task system, the same TL effects, the same power supplies, the same ranges, etc. It is a big, heavy book, and it is not friendly, even to seasoned Traveller players. But I think those observations have been stated more clearly by others.

 

[Daddicus]

... It is a big, heavy book, and it is not friendly, even to seasoned Traveller players. But I think those observations have been stated more clearly by others.

Agreed. I'm also not trying to take those things away from people, because there are very legitimate gripes one could have with T5.

I suspect I'm in the minority, but I really do like sifting through rules. But, I would really like the option of buying a collection of smaller books. And, if they make enough money to do a re-issue, my preference would be as a collection of smaller books.

On the other hand, I understand why it's so big: T5 is an intricate network of rules. It's part science, part engineering, and part lawyering (and probably more). To break it up might cause a fragmentation that would be hard to fix (i.e. like CT was).

 

[Hemdian]

I don't know if this has occurred to anyone else before but I've come to realise that comparisons of different Traveller systems to CT specifically could be unintentionally misleading. There were TWO systems in CT:

CT1: Basic character generation, Book 2 ships, Book 3 trade.

CT2: Advanced character generation, High Guard ships, Merchant Price trade.
​

So when people use CT in a comparison, are they talking about CT1 or CT2?

 

[David Johansen]

No it's worse than that. There's Snapshot combat, Ahzanti High Lightning Combat, Striker II combat, Mayday space combat. There's Citizens of the Imperium characters and various advanced versions therof from Dragon and Challenge magazines. It's just like OD&D. Everyone was playing a different game and thinks it's the one true path because that's how they did it and it worked for them.

At some point, we as gamers, have to accept that the variety of playstyles and priorities is a strength of the hobby not a weakness. The guys who are playing a tactical board game aren't the enemy and aren't weakening the hobby. The guys who are telling stories and making it up as they go aren't the enemy either. It's the guys who are fighting to the death on the internet because they've got nothing better to do than spread their hatred of other people's idea of fun that are dragging us down.

I still love my Traveller Book but to this day I still can't tell you if an autorifle can damage an air/raft based on that book.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

No it's worse than that. There's Snapshot combat, Ahzanti High Lightning Combat, Striker II combat, Mayday space combat. There's Citizens of the Imperium characters and various advanced versions therof from Dragon and Challenge magazines. It's just like OD&D. Everyone was playing a different game and thinks it's the one true path because that's how they did it and it worked for them.

At some point, we as gamers, have to accept that the variety of playstyles and priorities is a strength of the hobby not a weakness. The guys who are playing a tactical board game aren't the enemy and aren't weakening the hobby. The guys who are telling stories and making it up as they go aren't the enemy either. It's the guys who are fighting to the death on the internet because they've got nothing better to do than spread their hatred of other people's idea of fun that are dragging us down.

I still love my Traveller Book but to this day I still can't tell you if an autorifle can damage an air/raft based on that book.

Well put David. On the topic of an autorifle damaging an air raft, well I can find no reference to either. There are rules to make a variety of levitating vehicles and if you design them to be vulnerable to auto rifle fire then they will sustain damage. On the other hand if it's a super-armoured air raft, then perhaps not. Ultimately there only seems to be an example of a rifle(that I could find at a glance) not an auto-rifle. So for the time being it would depend on how you design the weapon and the air raft. Hope that helps.

This presents the obvious point that hopefully a sample vehicles book and weapons book will be forth coming to pin down our well known classic Traveller vehicles. Thankfully there are examples for the classic starships.

Also missing from T5 is any mention of the Darrians(correct me if I am mistaken). Once again pointing to the need for a T5 Aliens update. (Do the Darrians still exist in the Far Far Future of T5's Galaxiad?

 

[DonM]

I keep seeing this in various places on the web, where if something isn't/wasn't mentioned explicitly in T5, it apparently doesn't exist in Marc's new T5 OTU...



The OTU is still the OTU; it's got the Rebellion, Virus, and 1248 still. The T5 Second Survey project might move some things (the location of Kusyu, for example). But the Darrians are still the Darrians, etc...

 

[rancke]

The T5 Second Survey project might move some things (the location of Kusyu, for example).

Oh joy! Oh bliss! Oh frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!


Hans

 

[Ishmael]

....But the Darrians are still the Darrians, etc...

Are they still completely immune to Methemoglobinemia and Argyria??

 

[DonM]

Are they still completely immune to Methemoglobinemia and Argyria??

I need a page reference... :rofl:

 

[Spaceresearcher]

I keep seeing this in various places on the web, where if something isn't/wasn't mentioned explicitly in T5, it apparently doesn't exist in Marc's new T5 OTU...



The OTU is still the OTU; it's got the Rebellion, Virus, and 1248 still. The T5 Second Survey project might move some things (the location of Kusyu, for example). But the Darrians are still the Darrians, etc...

It's not a question of not existing, just if they still exist in the far far future period known as 'The Galaxiad'? I'd also hazard a guess that the virus is no longer a threat(all surviving species have immunity etc). Until there's more guides I can only guess at this stage.

 

[Ishmael]

I need a page reference... :rofl:

Gee...I can't find any
I guess I was mistaken and that Darrians in the OTU can have those afflictions... :rofl: