Firefly

[Uncle Bob]

I draw a line between a theatrical convention like sound effects in ST or B5s slow motion collisions and mis-representing the character of space as a plot element.

And as for assumptions, I can assume the writers made a fairly common dumbass mistake about the character of vacuum. Or I can assume that they knew better but came up with a convoluted explanation which allowed them to appear to make a dumbass mistake.

Occams razor. I have seen nothing to suggest that the writers are clever enough to pick option (2), especially over and over again. If they ARE that shows a disdain for me, the viewer, that absolves me from any necessity to be tolerant.

Now I will still watch. Lord, when the SciFi channel re-ran the "Lost in Space" TV show at 7 AM I often watched. But I will have illusions about it being SF or "Traveller-esque".

 

[Uncle Bob]

I missed the Le Mat. I did notice several pistols that looked like Colt 1860 Army models, dressed up.

That works with the post-civil ambiance. Besides, when I was a kid I had a plastic M1860 and when the hammer fell off it made an excellent ray gun.

BTW, I have handled a reproducton Le Mat and it is heavy and has lousy balance. I would rather carry the M1860, almost rather a Dragoon.

 

[justacaveman]

Dressed up antique/modern weapons seems to be a staple in some sci-fi shows. Remember the guards rifles in Escape From New York? M16's with the handguards removed. And 1/2 the B-movie sci-fi shows seem to use Calico 9mm's as ray guns.

 

[phydaux]

Long tradition. Han Solo's Mauser blaster?

 

[Bishop]

IIRC the statement in the show said that the weapon (Vera) needed an atmosphere around it to function, so I'm in agreement with LordRhys...

I would even hazard a guess that the characters could have rigged the suit so that it was constricted (air tight) around the barrel so that the area around the receiver could continue to be pressurized, even after the first shot.

Originally posted by LordRhys:
I doubt that "Vera" needed O2 to fire. I believe that the firearm needed air around it to fire accurately, because it was not designed to fire in a vaccuum. <snip>
I doesn't pay to jump to conclusions without examining "all" of the possibilities. I liked the episode just fine. It doesn't pay to be overly critical of Sci-Fi shows. Look at some of the crap that B5, Space Above and Beyond, and Star Wars put out. These shows all had "Major" flaws, yet they were enjoyable anyway.
If you have a ten minute attention span, then you'll probly be bored with most anything put out, regardless of the quality.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Bishop:
IIRC the statement in the show said that the weapon (Vera) needed an atmosphere around it to function, so I'm in agreement with LordRhys...

I would even hazard a guess that the characters could have rigged the suit so that it was constricted (air tight) around the barrel so that the area around the receiver could continue to be pressurized, even after the first shot.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by LordRhys:
I doubt that "Vera" needed O2 to fire. I believe that the firearm needed air around it to fire accurately, because it was not designed to fire in a vaccuum. <snip>
I doesn't pay to jump to conclusions without examining "all" of the possibilities. I liked the episode just fine. It doesn't pay to be overly critical of Sci-Fi shows. <snip>

</font>[/QUOTE]I agree you can't be too nit-picky (it IS tv) but I don't think it's my job as a viewer to "examine all the possibilities". I'm here to be told a story and when they go to the length to say it needs O2 and rig it up in a suit (How do you aim and operate the trigger?) and then blow out the face plate and still fire it, that's just sloppy story telling (i.e. writing) IMO.

OK, so if they constricted it (how kind of you to cover for the writer ) that just raises more questions for me. Does the end of the barrel have an airlock to prevent the vacuum from getting to the action? And then why destroy the faceplate? Why not open the visor and save yourself the replacement? And as for firing accurately, in addition to the aiming problems in the suit, behind the faceplate, how much is that faceplate going to deflect/deform the bullet? It would have been much better writing IMO to say something like...

Jayne-If I fire Vera in vacuum she'll probably seize, I'll likely only get one ruttin shot.

Mal-Then make it count, take out a breaker, shooting the viewport might get us some justice on the scum over there but it won't kill the net.

Naturally, after Jayne makes his shot (long careful aim, but in space no atmo shimmer, no windage, no gravity drop, just a nice clear, long, steady, straight as a laser, shot), he shoots out the viewport 'cause he is a bastard and then curses when Vera seizes up solid, maybe even cries at the loss of his fine weapon, 'cause he is a merc

.

You'll forgive me if I feel this is a far superior bit of writing to that used, and it's just an outline off the cuff. If you don't agree well

Besides, as a 'player' I would have been in the other shuttle (with all hands) and after maybe trying to shift the Serenity off course with it (she seems IIRC to be just coasting on course, but if not... ) return to the ship. Failing that I'd do a fly-by of the net station and toss a few wrenches (and assorted heavy objects) out the airlock at it at high speed and destroy the place before returning to the Serenity. Or just take off, living to fight another day.

My problem is not so much with the errors as it is with the writing that creates them, and this is just one example. If they had just skipped the part where they say it needs O2 to fire and took the shots in vacuum would anybody have cared one whit? I actually don't know why I'm even debating this Enjoy it for what it is while it lasts (who knows, this style of sci-fi may be popular enough to last).

 

[Uncle Bob]

On a happier note, I have been sucked in to watching "John Doe" after "Firefly". They just added some "men in black" to help keep the hero/savants past buried, which confirms it as "SciFi" at least.

I have't checked all his minuitia, but the 10% I know is right the other 90% could be right. The writers have impressed me.

 

[Ranger]

Just to put in a couple of good words for John Doe as well. They got every reference to Croatia right: Main commodity for the Dalmatian coast (Bauxite), Main city (Zagreb), Right currency (Kuna). I'm not sure about the commodity market location or when it's open for business, but just getting those three right pleased me.
As a long time student of the Former Yugoslavia I have just come to expect that any major TV show or movie is going to get everything wrong about the place, and they are usually simple facts that 5 minutes worth or research could correct. This kind of attention to detail bodes well for the shows writers.
The plot may actually owe something to an old Sci-Fi computer game, Privateer II, The Darkening. The main character is a pilot with total memory loss who is looking for his past... Sounds kind of familiar.

Just my thoughts,

Rob

 

[tim_manley]

Well, I finally got to hear the full intro because a) it seemed to not be rushed and b) my 4 year old wasn't yelling while it was playing.

It would *seem* that they emigrated to another solar system that is very rich in planets that can be terraformed. So they are non-FTL in one solar system with hundreds of livable worlds.

Interesting.

There are a lot of litttle tid-bits that were dropped in this episode.

But, then, of course, technical nit-picking

heh...I'm old enough to not care, to be honest. Hell, how many annurisms did star trek give me? damn -- I've evolved past the stage to demand technical accuracy from *any* TV show that I choose to watch (which isn't many).

See, the problem with TV writiers is that, well, they're writers. And, unless you have a scientific advisor that has veto power over story arcs or plot points or development features, then you're going to suck..... I mean be technically inaccurate.

But, hang on....I mean, how accurate are your guys' Traveller games? I see much mention of 2D space combat games to handle traveller space combat instead of a nice realisitc 3D system.

But then, how realistic are sand-casters not to mention black globe screens, et al?

So, again, we're back to the bottom line; is it an enjoyable story or is it not? Are the *glaring* technical innaccuracies so much that it detracts from the story.

In my case, the past 3 fire-fly episodes havn't been bad enough to take away my enjoyment of the show.

And, for those that wish to counter, who here can recall the ST:TNG dark matter episode? Yes, ol' pikard maneuvering the enterprise around balls of dark matter......*shudder*

anyway -- I am liking this show and enjoying the characters. I don't have a problem if it's non-ftl and only in 1 system. Well, not yet I don't....depends on how they handle it.

 

[Dynamo]

I also like the use of high / low tech. It makes sense that different colonies and worlds would be a lower tech level than the inner core planets.
According to the pilot the alliance is in a hurry to terraform anything and dumps people on these fresh planets with nothing but a hatchet, a blanket and a herd of animals (if they are lucky) which says to me that the alliance has a big big population problem. These people are out in remote space and ships don't come by that often... even if they did they have little to trade or barter so they want to get older tech (guns/ non powered farm equipment /homade clothing etc) that they can fix themselves and not rely on the next boat from Persephone thats due in 10 months. Ammunition or black powder would be easy to stockpile or make but I wonder how many places can make precision machine parts. For a colony of 50,000 or less who would even need mass production. Functionally there is not much of a difference between a Rifled musket like the old springfield and a modern sniper rifle. They both do the same thing and are both easier to master than a Bow or spear.

 

[Nearside]

They've mentioned the edge of the galaxy in a couple of places (at least once in the unaired pilot), so it seems like mixed messages regarding FTL travel.

'Full Burn' seems to be the fastest method of travel we've seen so far, and that's when the back end of the Serenity lights up (thus the 'Firefly' classification of the ship). But there's no specific mention of FTL travel just yet, that I've heard.

 

[phydaux]

Originally posted by Big Tim:
And, for those that wish to counter, who here can recall the ST:TNG dark matter episode? Yes, ol' pikard maneuvering the enterprise around balls of dark matter......*shudder*

What about the CT adventure with the abandon space ship that drifted into a field of anti-matter asteroids?

 

[Tanker]

I can tell you guys from long experience of watching Buffy that what Joss Whedon knows about science can probably be written on the back of a postage stamp. He and his merry band of writers are just as technically unqualified to write science-fiction as, say, Berman and Bragga. The difference is that Mutant Enemy writers are generally capable of producing competently-written scripts.

Firefly is monumentally stupid. And fun. And it reminds me strongly of Traveller. Which is also stupid and fun. You want hard sci-fi, stick to books.

 

[Uncle Bob]

I'll take exception to that. "Firefly" is more like Star Frontiers than any Traveller game I have been involved in.

And Traveller isn't Bob Forward or Hal Clements hard, but if its run as written it is James Schmitz/Beam Piper hard. That's good enough for me. And a lot better than "Firefly".

 

[Tanker]

I probably should have worded that differently. I don't really think Traveller is stupid, or I wouldn't have played/collected it. But I don't think it's really anywhere near hard sf either. It's toward the hard side of space opera, but I doubt a lot of its signature high tech is even theoretically possible. Not that that ever really mattered to me.

I think the spirit of "Firefly" is similar. I was in rpg-mode all the way through the first episode. But you're right, overall it is more like Star Frontiers. Mixed with Boot Hill.

My real point, which got obscurred by ill-conceived comments, was not to expect much in the way of realistic sci-fi from Joss Whedon.

 

[tim_manley]

Hell, to excpect real science done accurately in any TV science Fiction let alone TV/Movie science fiction is excptecting waaaaaaay too much.

You'll have better luck epecting decent plot, story and dialogue in a ⌧o movie.

And, I agree with Tanker. Play traveller as written? Traveller is a set of game rules and are far from hard-science. And, I'm sorry, but the Zhondani and the psi rules are pretty stupid....be real. Albeit, they are quite fun

Here's the real bottom line though -- it's a game and firely is a tv show. They are both entertainment that really don't mean that much; they're an escape. They won't stop any killings or feed the hungry or help the sick. So, I think that perhaps we shouldn't take any of them *too* seriously.

And, no offense to the guys who make their living producing entertainment becuase I get and have gotten a LOT of enjoyment from them. I know it's a business that puts food on the table. But, it's a business designed to entertain people and even if it's your business it shouldn't be taken too seriously.

or so I think

 

[RabidVargr]

Originally posted by Tanker:

Firefly is monumentally stupid. And fun. And it reminds me strongly of Traveller. Which is also stupid and fun. You want hard sci-fi, stick to books.

Amen!

RV

 

[Liam Devlin]

Drekh! Cancelled for a Baseball Game.

 

[Liam Devlin]

And no "John Doe either. Double Drekh! Guess its MJD's book fer a bit then! (satisfied grin)...G'night folks!

 

[Maspy]

No Firefly, no John Doe and still no Avatar. Triple Drekh!