Free movement of citizens?

[Hal]

Originally posted by Straybow:
¹ Note: One popular conspiracy theory is that Jack the Ripper was of noble or even royal blood, and was dealt with outside the normal bounds of law in order to preserve the reputation of the house and the nobility in general.

Thanks for that reference Straybow. I've pursued that theory and from there, went to look at the victims of Jack the Ripper, and stumbled the theory that it was a man named James Maybrick. Oddly enough (fact being stranger than fiction) there is purported to be a diary written by James Maybrick stating that he was the Ripper. Equally odd is the fact that New York City police were told in a letter (if the website is to be believed) that Jack the Ripper was in Town and that he had to leave). What a thought...

In any event, your quote triggered a net search that had the benefit of intriguing my wife's interest.

 

[Straybow]

Originally posted by rancke:
But the moment you stop talking about canon and begin talking about your private opinions, the discussion pretty much becomes moot. It also becomes off topic for most of these bulletin boards (including this one).

The canonical materials on 3I are neither complete enough nor consistent enough to dictate that only canonical material is to be discussed. Throw in TNE and GT... well, I think you see the point.

 

[aramis]

And TNE is Canon, even tho' the physical universe of TNE is not the same as CT, nor MT.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Straybow:
The canonical materials on 3I are neither complete enough nor consistent enough to dictate that only canonical material is to be discussed.

The extent of the canonical material available is irrelevant. In any discussion of the OTU and the GTU the bits of canon that we do have should, IMO, be considered gospel[*]. If you want to ignore canon, fine, but then you're not discussing the OTU/GTU any more.

[*] Unless there are compelling reasons to ignore it, such as silly, conflicting, or self-contraditory data.

Throw in TNE and GT... well, I think you see the point.

TNE is canon too, and though I know there are some who disagree with me, I also consider GT canon, since the OTU and the GTU is supposed to be identical up until around 1116 (or 1114 or whenever it is).


Hans

 

[Straybow]

Identical except for jump fuel requirement cut in half, which would pretty much change the entire starship trade economy and military paradigm. But who's counting? And if only discussion of canon is important then contradictions and "stupid stuff" in it should be grist for the mill, too.

Service Nobles are those who were elevated for service to the Imperium. Rank Nobles are those appointed a noble rank to serve in an IB post which requires a minimum noble rank (and no suitable nobleman can be found). Courtesy Nobles are the family members of these nobles, who get one-shot non-hereditary Titles at one rank below the Title Holder.

RoS, is this last part OTU, or YTU? I mean, if you're going to go rules-lawyer on us...

So (assuming OTU) the titles of Rank Nobles are removed after leaving office but the family members get to keep theirs? Doesn't seem to make sense. Again I say the concept of temporary nobility is fundamentally flawed.

If only the very highest of these bureaucrats are titled (temporary or otherwise) such that their numbers are insignificant, and there are plenty of (other) nobles without fiefdoms, then why would it be important that these are temporary?

To me it seems to cheapen nobility to make it temporary, and simultaneously cheapen the Emperor who can't bear to invest a qualified and faithful subject with "real" nobility.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Are there only pocket empires and the Spinward Maches that have nobility in TNE?

Are there any factions of the rebellion left that follow the "old" system?

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by cweiskircher:
Are there only pocket empires and the Spinward Maches that have nobility in TNE?

Are there any factions of the rebellion left that follow the "old" system?

Strictly speaking: no.

In canonical TNE, the Regency (ex-Domain of Deneb) is the *only* Rebellion-era Imperial faction that survived.

Various people have created pocket empires based on the former safes of various other factions, but these are non-canonical, and are, in any case technically pocket empires rather than rebellion factions.

Of course, the area behind the Black Curtain could be considered to represent the survival of Lucan's faction, but, well, that's a somewhat quirky use of the word "survival".

Alan B

 

[aramis]

Many pocket empires could have retained the nobility system. They are not, however, actually remnants of factions, as AlanB said.

Likewise, I don't recall TNE having said the RC disallows the use of titles; just that it's not run by nobles and isn't going elevate nor strip you; t'aint their problem, so long as you don't claim rulership by right of title.... Of course, they didn't lower the title Soc Levels, but did lower starting soc,.... so no starting barons, either.

YMMV.

Also, while I don't recall, there are probably worlds in the RC that have their own local nobility.

 

[Sephrim]

So given the example that Knight is attainable by a "commoner", what action/s would merit Knighting?

 

[RainOfSteel]

It's pretty much left up to the individual GM.


All IMTU . . .

I have it so that most orders are medium-tough to get into, but there is still great disparity in difficulty.

In addition, there are some orders which can only be entered under very specific conditions. Like, the Order of of the Conqueror, a Knighthood (and IM military decoration, too) granted to the commander of a successful world-level invasion/conquest. (Not granted often 1110 Era.) If you aren't an IM commander who led a successful invasion, you can forget ever entering this order. It is also an example of a Knighthood that is awarded automatical on receipt of a military honor.

I've debated over whether the SEH should come with some order of Knighthood, but so far have decided against it for the moment (this goes along with a personal dislike of the 3-award system, MCUF, MCG, SEH, I alway thought there should be more to it than that).

The primary requirement for entry into most Knighthoods is sponsorship. Someone who is already a Knight of the Order or a high-ranking noble, like a subsector or sector Duke (or someone who is capable of influencing them), may think that a particular sophont is worthy of joining a particular order of Knights. They arrange to contact the leadership of that order, and provide an official Petition of Sponsorship. The leadership of the order reviews the petition, and decides whether or not to accept. There can be all sorts of tests to be passed and requirements to be met. The process might well be lengthy, and could involve lots of "Travelling"! The Emperor can create Knights in any order at will (usually abiding by the requirements of the order). Archdukes may create knights in the order of their domain at will.

The primary trigger to sponsorship is getting noticed by someone who is capable of providing (one way or another) a Petition of Sponsorship, or by the Emperor or an Archduke. The first, although quite difficult, is much easier than the last.

One can be awesomely heroic, win multiple SEH's on the field of battle, but if those "on high" don't deign to notice, there is no elevation as Knight. (With a few exceptions, like receipt of the Order of the Conquerer military honor, but that level is always handled by the Emperor's Office, anyway, so it can be considered as being noticed by those "on high".)

Some orders have no official organization charter (like the order of the Rose & Silk, an Imperium-wide non-military order of artisans, writers, poets, etc.), and therefore no specific leadership. Petitions of Sponsorship must go through the Office of the Emperor, where the review of the Petition is handled by a staff of nobles delegated to the purpose, with final authorization under the signature of the Emperor should the individual be accepted.