gurps aliens
- Thread starter neil
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Martin will be up set to hear that you didnt like the Saurians, but my babies were the Otarri and their bone art.(see Traveller Gurps rule book).Its better than one review which called me stupid for not keeping up classic standards by inventing the llellewyoly! 0OTE]Originally posted by Vargas:
My disbelief failed to suspend for the Saurians as I found them to be a little too pat.
Unfortunately given that any new race in Traveller is up against the previous work of the Keith brothers, and more recently James Maliszewski (MT especially), it's a tough act to follow.[/QUOTE]
My disbelief failed to suspend for the Saurians as I found them to be a little too pat.
Unfortunately given that any new race in Traveller is up against the previous work of the Keith brothers, and more recently James Maliszewski (MT especially), it's a tough act to follow.[/QUOTE]
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by neil:
What do people think about the new races that have been developed for Gurps mainly by Dave Pulver, but also by my self and MJD IN BEHIND THE CLAW? Do people use them in their own campains and should they appear i T5?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
BTC didn't appeal to me, wasn't useful for non GT games, and they races seemed not to be even worth porting when I skimmed it at the store and later read it in detail after borrowing it from a friend. I read it cover to cover, and after a year, had forgotten there were minor races in it.
But, they are probably a good start towards better (and more memorable) tratments for T5.
What do people think about the new races that have been developed for Gurps mainly by Dave Pulver, but also by my self and MJD IN BEHIND THE CLAW? Do people use them in their own campains and should they appear i T5?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
BTC didn't appeal to me, wasn't useful for non GT games, and they races seemed not to be even worth porting when I skimmed it at the store and later read it in detail after borrowing it from a friend. I read it cover to cover, and after a year, had forgotten there were minor races in it.
But, they are probably a good start towards better (and more memorable) tratments for T5.
OK so you didnt like BTC but do you use any of GURPS as alot of their books contain new races , or is GURPS just a no go for you?I play my 2 campaigns using Gurps, CLASSIC,MT and T4 (I FIND GURPS VERY EASY TO CHANGE INTO TRAVELLER.)I do however find some of the new gurps races hard to accept,but i love their work on the old Traveller races. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aramis:
BTC didn't appeal to me, wasn't useful for non GT games, and they races seemed not to be even worth porting when I skimmed it at the store and later read it in detail after borrowing it from a friend. I read it cover to cover, and after a year, had forgotten there were minor races in it.
But, they are probably a good start towards better (and more memorable) tratments for T5.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
BTC didn't appeal to me, wasn't useful for non GT games, and they races seemed not to be even worth porting when I skimmed it at the store and later read it in detail after borrowing it from a friend. I read it cover to cover, and after a year, had forgotten there were minor races in it.
But, they are probably a good start towards better (and more memorable) tratments for T5.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by neil:
OK so you didnt like BTC but do you use any of GURPS as alot of their books contain new races , or is GURPS just a no go for you?I play my 2 campaigns using Gurps, CLASSIC,MT and T4 (I FIND GURPS VERY EASY TO CHANGE INTO TRAVELLER.)I do however find some of the new gurps races hard to accept,but i love their work on the old Traveller races. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What I've seen, i haven't liked. I have GT. I have (and almost like) Far Trader. I haven't found any of the GT treatments memorable nor terribly consitant with CT. ESPECIALLY BTC. It directly contradicts the Traveller Adventure in several systems. As for the races, I haven't bothered looking at GTAR_. Carlos Ferrier did a wonderful job with his creation, the Geonee, at least on his website. I like the CT Virush, Newt, and Dolphin Treatments. But I got spoiled by the CT AM series and the DGP S&A and V&V. The space used in BTC ws, IMO, totally non-memorable. I'd have to reread it to figure out why. I felt some of the T4 races were well done, others were tripe. I wish there had been more on the Dannin (mandanin codominion, JG domain of antares, CT era. Just enough to be tantalizing there).
I think GT serves a purpose. Just none for me. I've read several more than I have of the books for GT... and found them not worth my money.
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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
OK so you didnt like BTC but do you use any of GURPS as alot of their books contain new races , or is GURPS just a no go for you?I play my 2 campaigns using Gurps, CLASSIC,MT and T4 (I FIND GURPS VERY EASY TO CHANGE INTO TRAVELLER.)I do however find some of the new gurps races hard to accept,but i love their work on the old Traveller races. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What I've seen, i haven't liked. I have GT. I have (and almost like) Far Trader. I haven't found any of the GT treatments memorable nor terribly consitant with CT. ESPECIALLY BTC. It directly contradicts the Traveller Adventure in several systems. As for the races, I haven't bothered looking at GTAR_. Carlos Ferrier did a wonderful job with his creation, the Geonee, at least on his website. I like the CT Virush, Newt, and Dolphin Treatments. But I got spoiled by the CT AM series and the DGP S&A and V&V. The space used in BTC ws, IMO, totally non-memorable. I'd have to reread it to figure out why. I felt some of the T4 races were well done, others were tripe. I wish there had been more on the Dannin (mandanin codominion, JG domain of antares, CT era. Just enough to be tantalizing there).
I think GT serves a purpose. Just none for me. I've read several more than I have of the books for GT... and found them not worth my money.
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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
I just realized I missed one key question's answer.
I have GURPS. I have LOTS of GURPS stuff. Very little is GT. In general I've found GURPS treatment of non-humans has not improved much from that of TFT: Man In Rubber Suit.
The older I get, the less GURPS has appealed to me. Partly writing styles, partly the inconsitancy of the earlier materials (Conan had some of the exact same ads and disads as horseclans, at different costs, amongst a slew of other problems). Now that the Compendia are out, that's been fixed. But the system is awkward where I want friendly, and ponderous where I want streamlined, and it lacks a task system (which is an argument which belongs elsewhere).
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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
I have GURPS. I have LOTS of GURPS stuff. Very little is GT. In general I've found GURPS treatment of non-humans has not improved much from that of TFT: Man In Rubber Suit.
The older I get, the less GURPS has appealed to me. Partly writing styles, partly the inconsitancy of the earlier materials (Conan had some of the exact same ads and disads as horseclans, at different costs, amongst a slew of other problems). Now that the Compendia are out, that's been fixed. But the system is awkward where I want friendly, and ponderous where I want streamlined, and it lacks a task system (which is an argument which belongs elsewhere).
------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
Just a slight point not to do with races, but BTC tries to change a few of the system data to show that things have moved on by 1120. Also the book was written in 3 weeks as thats all the time we were given,so im sure at 3am i may have made a few mistakes(we were never given a chance to rewrite any of it).Imust say i like all travellers forms apart fron tne. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aramis:
What I've seen, i haven't liked. I have GT. I have (and almost like) Far Trader. I haven't found any of the GT treatments memorable nor terribly consitant with CT. ESPECIALLY BTC. It directly contradicts the Traveller Adventure in several systems. As for the races, I haven't bothered looking at GTAR_. Carlos Ferrier did a wonderful job with his creation, the Geonee, at least on his website. I like the CT Virush, Newt, and Dolphin Treatments. But I got spoiled by the CT AM series and the DGP S&A and V&V. The space used in BTC ws, IMO, totally non-memorable. I'd have to reread it to figure out why. I felt some of the T4 races were well done, others were tripe. I wish there had been more on the Dannin (mandanin codominion, JG domain of antares, CT era. Just enough to be tantalizing there).
I think GT serves a purpose. Just none for me. I've read several more than I have of the books for GT... and found them not worth my money.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What I've seen, i haven't liked. I have GT. I have (and almost like) Far Trader. I haven't found any of the GT treatments memorable nor terribly consitant with CT. ESPECIALLY BTC. It directly contradicts the Traveller Adventure in several systems. As for the races, I haven't bothered looking at GTAR_. Carlos Ferrier did a wonderful job with his creation, the Geonee, at least on his website. I like the CT Virush, Newt, and Dolphin Treatments. But I got spoiled by the CT AM series and the DGP S&A and V&V. The space used in BTC ws, IMO, totally non-memorable. I'd have to reread it to figure out why. I felt some of the T4 races were well done, others were tripe. I wish there had been more on the Dannin (mandanin codominion, JG domain of antares, CT era. Just enough to be tantalizing there).
I think GT serves a purpose. Just none for me. I've read several more than I have of the books for GT... and found them not worth my money.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
About BTC....
There was this guy who wrote and complained. Really, really got upset. What he hated was that the listing for Aramis in BTC is different to the one in the Traveller Adventure. NOw I found that odd, since we lifted it from TTA.
What this idiot (sorry, but I feel strongly about this) had not noticed was that there are 2 worlds named Aramis in the Marches. The other one is mentioned in Book4. The BTC index lists both....
I wonder: how much of his tirade - and other individuals' fault-picking - stems from just wanting to hate GURPS Traveller?
(I'll not mention the fool who slammed us for inventing silly aliens like the Dandelions. No, I'll definitely not mention that....)
There was this guy who wrote and complained. Really, really got upset. What he hated was that the listing for Aramis in BTC is different to the one in the Traveller Adventure. NOw I found that odd, since we lifted it from TTA.
What this idiot (sorry, but I feel strongly about this) had not noticed was that there are 2 worlds named Aramis in the Marches. The other one is mentioned in Book4. The BTC index lists both....
I wonder: how much of his tirade - and other individuals' fault-picking - stems from just wanting to hate GURPS Traveller?
(I'll not mention the fool who slammed us for inventing silly aliens like the Dandelions. No, I'll definitely not mention that....)
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MJD:
About BTC....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I generally like BTC. Sure some parts show definite signs of being unduely rushed, but all the early GT stuff shows signs of that. I think the problem is that people compare it to the later GT material which just isn't fair. GT took a fair amount of time to settle down. The earlist books (BTC and Star Mercs) didn't have the benefit of the stable base to build on.
The paragraph for each world was a mistake, but it was an interesting idea that just didn't pan out. There are canon errors, but look closely at V&V or S&A and you'll find a few corkers there too (Vland's sudden shift in orbit and Solomani forced growth cloning stand out). I give it a solid 7 out of 10.
About BTC....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I generally like BTC. Sure some parts show definite signs of being unduely rushed, but all the early GT stuff shows signs of that. I think the problem is that people compare it to the later GT material which just isn't fair. GT took a fair amount of time to settle down. The earlist books (BTC and Star Mercs) didn't have the benefit of the stable base to build on.
The paragraph for each world was a mistake, but it was an interesting idea that just didn't pan out. There are canon errors, but look closely at V&V or S&A and you'll find a few corkers there too (Vland's sudden shift in orbit and Solomani forced growth cloning stand out). I give it a solid 7 out of 10.
I like BTC, basically because it is MTU! I've been ignoring the rebellion since MT came out, and now a company is producing supplements that support my game
I still use CT rules, however.
The problems I had with BTC were that the stats of the worlds had numerous problems, and I was hoping for more info on the missing minor race (there's a hint of a minor race mentioned in Spinward Marches Campaign, but ignored everywhere else).
There's a spreadsheet floating around with world corrections, that several people on the internet contributed to, and I know at least two of us gave it to SJGames, hoping to see those fixed in a new printing, but so far they haven't.
The biggest goof in the GT material was Star Mercs. Everything else has been fairly decent. Rim of Fire rocks, and BTC suffers unfairly from comparison because it came first, and RoF really learned from those mistakes.
DonM.
I still use CT rules, however.
The problems I had with BTC were that the stats of the worlds had numerous problems, and I was hoping for more info on the missing minor race (there's a hint of a minor race mentioned in Spinward Marches Campaign, but ignored everywhere else).
There's a spreadsheet floating around with world corrections, that several people on the internet contributed to, and I know at least two of us gave it to SJGames, hoping to see those fixed in a new printing, but so far they haven't.
The biggest goof in the GT material was Star Mercs. Everything else has been fairly decent. Rim of Fire rocks, and BTC suffers unfairly from comparison because it came first, and RoF really learned from those mistakes.
DonM.
The one thing I did not say, and should have, is that I think all of the new GURPS minor races, especially the ones that are borrowed from Space Master, really are bad bolt-ons to the Traveller universe. No offense, but if there were minor races in the Spinward Marches previously, they WOULD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY.
Of course, just like the Rebellion, I ignore the junk and use the cream, and life goes on.
DonM.
Of course, just like the Rebellion, I ignore the junk and use the cream, and life goes on.
DonM.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DonM:
The one thing I did not say, and should have, is that I think all of the new GURPS minor races, especially the ones that are borrowed from Space Master, really are bad bolt-ons to the Traveller universe. No offense, but if there were minor races in the Spinward Marches previously, they WOULD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY.
Of course, just like the Rebellion, I ignore the junk and use the cream, and life goes on.
DonM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm awaiting AR4 and Humaniti with interest. From the playtests, I'd say we can expect some good stuff in these.
The one thing I did not say, and should have, is that I think all of the new GURPS minor races, especially the ones that are borrowed from Space Master, really are bad bolt-ons to the Traveller universe. No offense, but if there were minor races in the Spinward Marches previously, they WOULD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY.
Of course, just like the Rebellion, I ignore the junk and use the cream, and life goes on.
DonM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm awaiting AR4 and Humaniti with interest. From the playtests, I'd say we can expect some good stuff in these.
I didnt start this topic to see who likes BTC and GURPS BUT TO DISCUSS ALIENS CREATED IN THE SYSTEM.The point made that we cant have new aliens in the Spinward Marches is the worst idea i have heard in a long time.For gods sake this is a sf game set in the far future so if we cant have a few good aliens to travel to meet whats the point?The original data on the Marches only give us stats so i think there could and should be alot of interesting aliens out there!So lets cut the crap ,and stop wasting time talking about which rules we like, and lets start discovering whats out there,if you dont think the data on new races is enough lets write it or get the gods to publish. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by neil:
What do people think about the new races that have been developed for Gurps mainly by Dave Pulver, but also by my self and MJD IN BEHIND THE CLAW? Do people use them in their own campains and should they appear i T5?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What do people think about the new races that have been developed for Gurps mainly by Dave Pulver, but also by my self and MJD IN BEHIND THE CLAW? Do people use them in their own campains and should they appear i T5?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And I'm quite upset at the notion that some people think they can come along and add stuff to an ALREADY established setting, in some cases in direct contradition to established canon.
In my opinion, your attitude as expressed in your reply below shows that you have absolutely no regard for the setting, except a desire to get your own name in print. I'm sorry, but you are NOT Marc Miller, Loren Wiseman and your last name doesn't end in Keith. I don't care how K00L your WAREZ are D00D, but keep your new aliens out of my old sectors. Feel free to add new stuff like that to any unpublished sector. But don't contradict established canon, and don't tell me that planet's a water world in BTC when it was a dry one in SMC without a REAL GOOD explanation.
There. I'm an old Traveller curmudgeon, and proud of it. Hell, I've got a playtest credit for Rim of Fire, and I'll be so bold as to say that RoF shows how a GT sector book can have respect for Traveller's past. I hope all other works by SJGames show that same respect. But BTC does not, and your attitude as an author shows why.
DonM.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by neil:
I didnt start this topic to see who likes BTC and GURPS BUT TO DISCUSS ALIENS CREATED IN THE SYSTEM.The point made that we cant have new aliens in the Spinward Marches is the worst idea i have heard in a long time.For gods sake this is a sf game set in the far future so if we cant have a few good aliens to travel to meet whats the point?The original data on the Marches only give us stats so i think there could and should be alot of interesting aliens out there!So lets cut the crap ,and stop wasting time talking about which rules we like, and lets start discovering whats out there,if you dont think the data on new races is enough lets write it or get the gods to publish. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In my opinion, your attitude as expressed in your reply below shows that you have absolutely no regard for the setting, except a desire to get your own name in print. I'm sorry, but you are NOT Marc Miller, Loren Wiseman and your last name doesn't end in Keith. I don't care how K00L your WAREZ are D00D, but keep your new aliens out of my old sectors. Feel free to add new stuff like that to any unpublished sector. But don't contradict established canon, and don't tell me that planet's a water world in BTC when it was a dry one in SMC without a REAL GOOD explanation.
There. I'm an old Traveller curmudgeon, and proud of it. Hell, I've got a playtest credit for Rim of Fire, and I'll be so bold as to say that RoF shows how a GT sector book can have respect for Traveller's past. I hope all other works by SJGames show that same respect. But BTC does not, and your attitude as an author shows why.
DonM.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by neil:
I didnt start this topic to see who likes BTC and GURPS BUT TO DISCUSS ALIENS CREATED IN THE SYSTEM.The point made that we cant have new aliens in the Spinward Marches is the worst idea i have heard in a long time.For gods sake this is a sf game set in the far future so if we cant have a few good aliens to travel to meet whats the point?The original data on the Marches only give us stats so i think there could and should be alot of interesting aliens out there!So lets cut the crap ,and stop wasting time talking about which rules we like, and lets start discovering whats out there,if you dont think the data on new races is enough lets write it or get the gods to publish. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Soooo... everything that comes after the original UPP listings is forbidden? The Marches are limited to the original digit code; if it's not in there, it doesn't exist. I get it now...
Yes, there were errors in BTC caused by reading UPPs at 3AM and a very rushed timescale that preculded the expected playtesting and error-trapping.
But to accuse us/neil of lack of respect for the setting... I find that more laughable than annoying.
Yes, there were errors in BTC caused by reading UPPs at 3AM and a very rushed timescale that preculded the expected playtesting and error-trapping.
But to accuse us/neil of lack of respect for the setting... I find that more laughable than annoying.
... or to put it another way...
"Hell, I've got a playtest credit for Rim of Fire"
So what? How many nights did you stay up until 4Am, then go to work at 7, to meet the deadline? How much of the book did you actually write? Get yourself hired to write a book for Traveller (any sort); do it flawlessly; do it in a matter of days. And THEN you can presume to insult people who have done those things.
But please; I don't care how cool your playtest credits are, dood... you're not even playing the same sport, let alone in the ballpark.
"Hell, I've got a playtest credit for Rim of Fire"
So what? How many nights did you stay up until 4Am, then go to work at 7, to meet the deadline? How much of the book did you actually write? Get yourself hired to write a book for Traveller (any sort); do it flawlessly; do it in a matter of days. And THEN you can presume to insult people who have done those things.
But please; I don't care how cool your playtest credits are, dood... you're not even playing the same sport, let alone in the ballpark.
Dear Crew:
As Scousers say: 'Caarrm Dow-n, Caarrm Dow-n eh!'
As this page has in effect become the semi-official BTC discussion page, can I ask the authors what their conception is behind the Muodray character and the Droyne mega-kroyloss at Andor, Candory/Five Sisters. As I run a Five Sisters campaign and am intrigued, I would like to have an idea where you are/where going.
(By the way, sorry if this has been discussed on the SJG/JTAS site already, I just don't subscribe)
As Scousers say: 'Caarrm Dow-n, Caarrm Dow-n eh!'
As this page has in effect become the semi-official BTC discussion page, can I ask the authors what their conception is behind the Muodray character and the Droyne mega-kroyloss at Andor, Candory/Five Sisters. As I run a Five Sisters campaign and am intrigued, I would like to have an idea where you are/where going.
(By the way, sorry if this has been discussed on the SJG/JTAS site already, I just don't subscribe)
Sorry. As a professional writer I got a bit annoyed at the "just wanted to get your name in print" thing. Like I hadn't written several books already; didn't make my living publishing my work in the defence sector etc....
Muodray?? Well he's this Droyne who doesn't fit any particular Caste. And the Droyne have been active in the region recently. Chirper numbers are falling. Any clues?
Muodray?? Well he's this Droyne who doesn't fit any particular Caste. And the Droyne have been active in the region recently. Chirper numbers are falling. Any clues?
First, a praise: I actually liked the Muodray plot. Very creative, and a good change for the Droyne, which all too often are used as "the boring leftovers of the Ancients".
Second, as far as criticism of the book, it's a public forum, and books are critiqued by many, far and wide. I used the example of my having a playtest credit for Rof to show that I don't "hate all GT represents". Rather, I do like GT. In fact, I do like most of BTC. The world paragraph thing was annoying, but items like the point-to-point, and the subplots based on certain historical events was good.
However, some things lead me to believe that neither author had access to SMC, the post-FFW book on the Spinward Marches. For example, you've added a minor race at Retinae, and intimated that contact with this race is RECENT. However, SMC indicates that an imperial base has been at Retinae since the 550s, and at one point that region was part of the Imperium.
And, the addition of minor races where there were none previously in the Spinward Marches I do find annoying. It's the most detailed piece of the Traveller Universe, and you're adding stuff that isn't based on the existing canon, and then getting upset when someone isn't wowed by it?
Look: I understand you worked long and hard on the book. But not everyone's going to love all of it, and I'm one of them. BTC needed a longer playtest period, and it didn't get it. That's NOT your fault. But adding odd aliens where they weren't previously is. Sorry if I find that a major canon violation, but it is.
Traveller isn't Star Wars, the TAS is NOT a Cantina, and let's keep it that way, ok?
DonM.
Second, as far as criticism of the book, it's a public forum, and books are critiqued by many, far and wide. I used the example of my having a playtest credit for Rof to show that I don't "hate all GT represents". Rather, I do like GT. In fact, I do like most of BTC. The world paragraph thing was annoying, but items like the point-to-point, and the subplots based on certain historical events was good.
However, some things lead me to believe that neither author had access to SMC, the post-FFW book on the Spinward Marches. For example, you've added a minor race at Retinae, and intimated that contact with this race is RECENT. However, SMC indicates that an imperial base has been at Retinae since the 550s, and at one point that region was part of the Imperium.
And, the addition of minor races where there were none previously in the Spinward Marches I do find annoying. It's the most detailed piece of the Traveller Universe, and you're adding stuff that isn't based on the existing canon, and then getting upset when someone isn't wowed by it?
Look: I understand you worked long and hard on the book. But not everyone's going to love all of it, and I'm one of them. BTC needed a longer playtest period, and it didn't get it. That's NOT your fault. But adding odd aliens where they weren't previously is. Sorry if I find that a major canon violation, but it is.
Traveller isn't Star Wars, the TAS is NOT a Cantina, and let's keep it that way, ok?
DonM.
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