CT Only: Hand-to-Hand and/or martial art combat

[jaz0nj4ckal]

Has anyone done anything to make hand-to-hand (HtH) combat more interesting? For example – rules or special benefits for Judo Throws or Choke Holds?

I currently have a rough outline or draft on what I want to focus on, but with the intent to keep it ‘VERY’ simple. GURPS sort of gave me the idea; however, too many details and maneuvers are in resource books, and me being a sucker for 2d6 and simple rules I started drafting something for CT.

To keep things simple I have broken maneuvers into three categories.

Group K/P = Kicking/Punching
Group T = Throws
Group H = Holds

It can be argued by some that Kicking can develop a great deal more force and damage then a punch; however, for simplicity both forms of damage are caused by blunt or bludgeoning; however, the other groups would allow for other dice penalties.

For example –
Group K/P = normal damage on chart
Group T = throw opponent 1m and have them make a check land prone?
Group H = maybe strength check to see if they can break free and maybe some other checks to see if they pass out.



I always like to hear from the community, so what have others done to add a little more flavor?

 

[kilemall]

I worked out martial arts, but less a tactical move/interaction subgame and more an effects regimen coupled to what the martial discipline imparts at each level.

 

[infojunky]

There is that article in jTas....

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

There is that article in jTas....

What article and what journal number?

 

[BlackBat242]

Journal of the Travellers Aid Society No. 19
Suggestions for Martial Arts Combat in Traveller by Bob Liebman

Article details a system for martial arts/hand-to-hand combat, and has a "skill" table listing 10 described skills plus "special skill"* and "+1 to any one skill".

These skills are: punch, kick, block, hold break, combat throw, disarm opponent, jump kick, weapon strike, weapon block, & stealth.



* To be created by the Ref - can also be an already-described skill taught as part of the "art" - suck as lock-picking ("security"), etc.

 

[infojunky]

What article and what journal number?

jTas issue 19, page 43

And still think I am missing a reference..

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

jTas issue 19, page 43

And still think I am missing a reference..

didn't have the book so I purchased it - thanks...

 

[kilemall]

This Traveller Plus rulebook has an expanded martial arts combat section-


http://crucible.cc/traveller/docs/tplus.pdf

 

[AsenRG]

I'm using, more or less, the core rules for stunts in Feng Shui 2, much to many people's surprise.
Which is to say, "tell me what you do, describe it, and I'm going to give you a 1-3 bonus for novelty and tactics, or a penalty for being repetitive". Repeating the same trick only works so many times, though for a good tactic I might roll against the opponent's Intelligence to see whether he'd devise a counter to it (getting nailed by the same shot is possible).
I also allow people to state an effect they want to achieve for a bit of an increase in difficulty, usually a +2, or give them a "bonus effect" for a roll that beats the throw number I've set by 4+, with me determining the effect. Technically, you could get both with a roll of 14+, but if you do can that, the enemy is screwed anyway.
I also allow people to use set-up moves, like feints and such, to set-up a harder, more damaging move. Of course, many elect not to use the option, but it's popular with fencers, or at least with fencers facing an equal.

 

[flykiller]

Has anyone done anything to make hand-to-hand (HtH) combat more interesting?

ct has the little-remarked-upon rule that fencing skill is not only an attack modifier but also a concurrent defense modifier. could apply that same rule to combatives action.

 

[AsenRG]

ct has the little-remarked-upon rule that fencing skill is not only an attack modifier but also a concurrent defense modifier. could apply that same rule to combatives action.

Isn't that how it's applied in T5 as well?

 

[flykiller]

don't know, don't have t5.

 

[AsenRG]

After checking my copy...yes, that's how it's done in T5, it seems. So you could say that (for all we know) Marc Miller agrees with you on that account.

Still, while that solves the issue with combat experts having better defence, it still leaves open the question how to make them also more damaging with their chosen weapons or techniques, given equal physical abilities.

 

[flykiller]

it still leaves open the question how to make them also more damaging with their chosen weapons or techniques

in kung fu movies the focus is not on damage, but on theatrics. that's largely true for all action movies - can't have the hero or the major protagonists hospitalized or crippled by a single hit, it's a real drag on the storyline and profits.

there used to be a roleplaying game called Hero - all drama, probably involved a lot of fisticuffs, might find something in there that makes combative actions descriptively exciting.

(observe how d&d doesn't need any such thing - the focus is on to-hit rolls and damage rolls.)

 

[AsenRG]

in kung fu movies the focus is not on damage, but on theatrics.

That's mostly true, but I wasn't thinking about emulating kung-fu movies, which are fiction. I was thinking about emulating the effects of mastering a combat skill should have on the character's abilities if the game was non-fiction.

that's largely true for all action movies - can't have the hero or the major protagonists hospitalized or crippled by a single hit, it's a real drag on the storyline and profits.

Cyrano de Bergerac dies from one successful hit during an ambush, and nobody ever said the play is less entertaining for that, so I'd say it can go both ways.

 

[hdan]

I've toyed with a martial arts system inspired by the Psionics rules - you study in one or more "Schools" of combat, and roll to advance your level, etc. For example, KungFu might have Tiger, Crane and Monkey skills, each of which focuses on a different part of combat (damage, attack, defense...) the way each Psionic discipline focuses on a different type of power.

Endurance (or more accurately, "Blows") is the "PSI" equivalent stat, and MA actions are fueled with Blows (essentially ordinary brawling is "level 0" kung fu, with the ability to spend 1 blow for a "full attack", or hold back for a "weakened blow").

Maybe Tiger lets you spend Blows to boost damage, Monkey spends Blows for defensive DM's, etc. I would use "Awareness" as a model for scaling purposes.

I'm also imagining some sort of table where each KungFu style does a different (fixed) amount of damage against the defending style, where both sides apply their skill in their chosen style as a DM. It may be better to just give to-hit DM's though, where in addition to both combatant's skill level, you also add a "fudge" so that, say, "tiger" can be more easily countered by "monkey", but not "panda" (lol).

This way, fighters roll to-hit against each other, possibly fueling their attacks with additional END, and using END to "cast" damage reductions. You can of course use "weakened blows" in hopes that your opponent will use up all of their END before you go unconscious. At that point, you'd pour on the attacks against them.

Fighters would need to declare (possibly secretly?) what aspects of their chosen forms they want to use in a given round, spending blows to fuel it, and then rolling to-hit (and damage if they hit). Since as well all know, "A Karate Man bruises on the INSIDE!", I might allow an MU practitioner to reduce damage taken by spending Blows, but I think spending blows to avoid being hit is probably more thematically correct.

I know my idea is very sketchy and my knowledge of kung-fu is laughable, but it seems like such a mini-game could be entertaining for sparring, and in "real" combat, could give a real advantage over your run of the mill brawler. (Though your MA skill level should probably count as "Brawling" for purposes of non-MA melee combats.)

(Side note - if you allow Psionics in your game, you might want to allow spending PSI points as well as blows, or even bring some levitation and other craziness in for Wuxia styles, fueled by PSI instead of just Blows. But that's getting a little crazy for CT stylings....)

Some day I should try to work this system up....

 

[kilemall]

Hdan, thats pretty close to my home martial arts school.

The deal was each level of skill opened up an ability, say dodge/extra damage/no endurance cost for attack etc., and each increase in skill also gave pluses to other abilities.

The idea was to give a very unique nature and feel to each martial art school/discipline.

I don't know that I would bother with a scissors/rock/paper matrix, just let the DMs speak.

 

[ShapeShifter]

This is something I'm now keenly interested in, as I just finished the novel Logan's Run. The infamous Sandmen use a conglomerated martial art called Omnite, and engineering rules to model such is a challenge.

 

[infojunky]

I honestly treat Brawling as the Martial Arts skill. Adding one point of damage per skill level to hits. Also Allowing Brawling DM for defense.

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

This is something I'm now keenly interested in, as I just finished the novel Logan's Run. The infamous Sandmen use a conglomerated martial art called Omnite, and engineering rules to model such is a challenge.

I have been toying the idea of Logan's Run as soon as I am done with The Descent of Anansi by Larry Niven.

Do you have the isbn of the book? Since it was also a movie are there two different version? I know sometimes an original gets published, then after the movie comes out - another version Based on the movie is published.