CT Only: Healing and Medicine in CT

[Golan2072]

I'm trying to figure out how healing and medicine work in CT (i.e. Little Black Books - 3-in-1 reprint version - and Starter Traveller/The Traveller Book). The rules I can find are:

1) Low Berth rules (LBB1 p.20; LBB2 p.5).
2) Wounding and Death rules (LBB1 pp.33-34).
3) Drugs (LBB2 pp.44-45).

My questions are:
1) LBB1 p.34 says that if you have one characteristic reduced to zero, once you wake up from unconsciousness (10 minutes), your wounded characteristic would be halfway between the wounded value and the full value; afterwards "a return to full rest requires medical attention... or three days of rest". So does medical attention return the characteristic to its full value at once? Does it require a Medicine throw?

2) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention". How long does it take to heal? Does this require a Medicine throw?

3) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention" and requires a medical facility. What quantifies as a medical facility? Does a ship's basic medlab (which I usually say is subsumed in stateroom cost) count as one?

4) I recall reading somewhere that Medical Slow (LBB2 p.44) requires a low berth while administered AND is lethal if no low berth or medical attention is used. I can't find these rules in LBB2. Also, this is for some reason TL7 (where is my Medical Slow?) and quite cheap.

 

[hdan]

I'm not an expert on this, but I have given it a good bit of thought for one of my games, so in the interest of conversation:

1) LBB1 p.34 says that if you have one characteristic reduced to zero, once you wake up from unconsciousness (10 minutes), your wounded characteristic would be halfway between the wounded value and the full value; afterwards "a return to full rest requires medical attention... or three days of rest". So does medical attention return the characteristic to its full value at once? Does it require a Medicine throw?

I think it DOES return you to full health, and does not require a throw, though it does require a medical kit and therefore medic skill. I view this as first aid and field-medic type repairs, which if you have the skill, will work.

For resource tracking, I make it take one dose of medicinal drugs and 10 minutes, but that's an extrapolation.

2) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention". How long does it take to heal? Does this require a Medicine throw?

This one is trickier. I say the doctor needs to be surgeon (Dex 8+) to treat this sort of wound, or have a medibot of some sort. I usually hand wave something about an hour of surgery and "a good night's sleep" to be back to full strength.

It makes sense to have a roll, but I generally don't, just for gameplay simplicity.

3) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention" and requires a medical facility. What quantifies as a medical facility? Does a ship's basic medlab (which I usually say is subsumed in stateroom cost) count as one?

I'd say a ship's medlab is good enough. I might also require some amount of medical drugs, just for resource management purposes.

4) I recall reading somewhere that Medical Slow (LBB2 p.44) requires a low berth while administered AND is lethal if no low berth or medical attention is used. I can't find these rules in LBB2. Also, this is for some reason TL7 (where is my Medical Slow?) and quite cheap.

I'm pretty sure that's a Mongoose thing. I don't recall Medical Slow being deadly in the old game. But I only have Starter Traveller rules handy at the moment, since they're PDFs.

 

[whulorigan]

2) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention". How long does it take to heal? Does this require a Medicine throw?

3) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention" and requires a medical facility. What quantifies as a medical facility? Does a ship's basic medlab (which I usually say is subsumed in stateroom cost) count as one?

This one is trickier. I say the doctor needs to be surgeon (Dex 8+) to treat this sort of wound, or have a medibot of some sort. I usually hand wave something about an hour of surgery and "a good night's sleep" to be back to full strength.

It makes sense to have a roll, but I generally don't, just for gameplay simplicity.

I'd say a ship's medlab is good enough. I might also require some amount of medical drugs, just for resource management purposes.

Some of these might vary (recovery-time, et al) based on the TL of the treatment and/or facilities available.

4) I recall reading somewhere that Medical Slow (LBB2 p.44) requires a low berth while administered AND is lethal if no low berth or medical attention is used. I can't find these rules in LBB2. Also, this is for some reason TL7 (where is my Medical Slow?) and quite cheap.

I'm pretty sure that's a Mongoose thing. I don't recall Medical Slow being deadly in the old game. But I only have Starter Traveller rules handy at the moment, since they're PDFs.

I do not remember if it is uniquely Mongoose or not, but I believe the idea is that Medical Slow rapidly increases the metabolism, and therefore the body temperature climbs very quickly, requiring external cooling to prevent the equivalent of severe fever that could lead to brain-damage.

 

[McPerth]

4) I recall reading somewhere that Medical Slow (LBB2 p.44) requires a low berth while administered AND is lethal if no low berth or medical attention is used. I can't find these rules in LBB2. Also, this is for some reason TL7 (where is my Medical Slow?) and quite cheap.

As I treated it while I refereed CT, the medical slow drug is equivalent to a months healing in 24 houts of time (so, if the illness/damage you have needs 2 months to heal, you'll need to use it twice, or once to be partially recovered and spend a month in more conventional recovering, but able to also do other things).

Its dawbacks (again as I used it as referee) were:

1. The character stayed in coma for all the effect time
2. It needed constant medical supervision, due to the increased nutrient needs (that would, of course, have to be administred intravenously) and elimination (that also need to by by the use of catheters. Due to the speed at which the changes must be detected and decisions have to be taken, an autodoc was the best alternative (but needed the supervisión of trained personnel).
3. Infectious disease also had their course accelerated (after all, bacteriae /fingi were also affected by it, and viri are replicated at the host cells' subjective time)
4. After its use, it required a rehabilitation period (the character subjective time is that he has been a month in coma, with the muscle atrophy that means)
5. You needed about a week between uses to allow the body to fully eliminate it
6. Character ages one month per use (as in CT rules)

While I think all of those limitations are medicaly credible and justified, the main reason for them is to avoid such a "magic healing" to be abused (we have D&D for that ).

 

[Limburger59]

CT seems pretty open ended to healing.

I like the Advanced Medical Rules at http://www.travellercentral.com/rules/medical.html though I'm not sure who created them.

 

[aramis]

I do not remember if it is uniquely Mongoose or not, but I believe the idea is that Medical Slow rapidly increases the metabolism, and therefore the body temperature climbs very quickly, requiring external cooling to prevent the equivalent of severe fever that could lead to brain-damage.

It's uniquely Mongoose, at least as far as Traveller goes. CT, and MT, it's just "get a month's healing while incapacitated for 24 hours, wake up famished." But noting the risks of mixing drugs, and the brutal damage it can cause, may make Medical Slow a serious risk...

TTB 106:

Synergy: If more than one drug is taken (except medical drug), the combination may have an adverse effect, called
synergy. In addition to all other effects of drugs, throw one die for each drug taken, and multiply the results together.
The number indicates hits received as a result of synergy, and are inflicted at the end of the period of drug use.​

and

A medical slow drug is also available, being used to
hasten recovery from wounds or illness. One dose causes
unconsciousness, and the passage of thirty days equivalent
time in one day. During this period, ordinary healing takes
place. No wounds or hits are received from the use of
medical slow drug. Be certain to note the passage of time at
the increased rate during period of drug use. The individual
is unconscious or semi-conscious while under the influence
of medical slow drug.​

If one's used combat drug or slow drug, been subjected to truth drug, is on anagathics, or is going to need to take fast drug for travel purposes, the resulting number of hits is a serious drawback. I once had a player who took medical slow while at 001xxx (of 428xxx base) after having taken combat and slow. He died from the mixture - the resulting 1dx1dx1d damage can fell any PC...

 

[Bob Weaver]

I'm trying to figure out how healing and medicine work in CT (i.e. Little Black Books - 3-in-1 reprint version - and Starter Traveller/The Traveller Book). The rules I can find are:

1) Low Berth rules (LBB1 p.20; LBB2 p.5).
2) Wounding and Death rules (LBB1 pp.33-34).
3) Drugs (LBB2 pp.44-45).

My questions are:
1) LBB1 p.34 says that if you have one characteristic reduced to zero, once you wake up from unconsciousness (10 minutes), your wounded characteristic would be halfway between the wounded value and the full value; afterwards "a return to full rest requires medical attention... or three days of rest". So does medical attention return the characteristic to its full value at once? Does it require a Medicine throw?

2) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention". How long does it take to heal? Does this require a Medicine throw?

3) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention" and requires a medical facility. What quantifies as a medical facility? Does a ship's basic medlab (which I usually say is subsumed in stateroom cost) count as one?

4) I recall reading somewhere that Medical Slow (LBB2 p.44) requires a low berth while administered AND is lethal if no low berth or medical attention is used. I can't find these rules in LBB2. Also, this is for some reason TL7 (where is my Medical Slow?) and quite cheap.

The JTAS article "Medical Treatment in Traveller" (JTAS #11) fills in a lot of those gaps, giving time frames and necessary skills. An aspect of the process that adds a measure of realism and makes Medical skill more essential is the 'deterioration' rules. If a wounded character does not get trained Medical attention within a time frame, that character can take additional hits (modeling blood loss, shock, etc).
But, these rules apply a LOT more time for healing from wounds. So, it depends on how fast-moving you want your game to be, in game-time. If your PCs get wounded, they could be out of action for weeks; this may sink a Free Trader crew if they can't lift for a month while the crew recovers from a bar brawl.
If you don't want that much realism (and the attendant cost) go with a simpler method - specify a task roll for the medic, and if it succeeds, your PC is healed and can go on adventuring. I don't like to let too much realism slow down my game. Honestly, my PCs are unlikely to die unless they do something really stupid; I'll usually let them be slowed down by injuries, but not bring them to a halt or kill them just because the dice say to do so.

Cheers,

Bob W

 

[Supplement Four]

My questions are:
1) LBB1 p.34 says that if you have one characteristic reduced to zero, once you wake up from unconsciousness (10 minutes), your wounded characteristic would be halfway between the wounded value and the full value; afterwards "a return to full rest requires medical attention... or three days of rest". So does medical attention return the characteristic to its full value at once? Does it require a Medicine throw?

Classic Traveller has basically three wound states (aside from being not damaged and perfectly healthy): Minor Wound, Serious Wound, and Dead.

Minor Wound = Any damage that does not reduce a physical characteristic to zero.

Minor Wound and unconscious* = And damage that reduces only one physical characteristic to zero.

*Unconscious - In my game, I prefer to think of this as "incapacitated" and not necessarily unconscious, but that's just my interpretation.

Serious Wound = Any damage that includes two physical characteristics at zero. The character is knocked unconscious for three hours. When the seriously wounded character regains consciousness, the stats that were reduced below zero are raised to 1. Proper medical attention is required if the character is ever to fully recover.





MINOR WOUND - HEALING

Unconsciousness from a Minor Wound lasts for ten minutes. After that time, the character is again conscious, and the stat that was reduced to zero is raised to its halfway point. The character still has a Minor Wound.

Minor Wounds require a Medical Kit and a character with at least Medic-1 skill, plus 30 minutes time. After that time, the character is fully healed.

Alternatively, a character with a Minor Wound can heal naturally. Three days of rest will return the character to full health.

So, to answer your question #1, no medical throw is required. All you need to heal a Minor Wound is to have the patient conscious, a medical kit, and a character with Medic-1 skill. If you've got all of those ingredients, then the character is fully healed in 30 minutes.



SERIOUS WOUND - HEALING

Serious Wounds require a medical aid station or hospital or sickbay on a ship, plus a character with Medic-3 skill or higher, plus 5D6 days. After that time, all characteristics are returned to their original levels.



NOTE - that no medical skill throw is required. Just time to heal and people to look after you, with access to the necessary equipment.

2) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention". How long does it take to heal? Does this require a Medicine throw?

This is answered above. No throw is required. You just need to have the right people and equipment to get a character healed, plus recovery time, which varies, depending on the wound type.

3) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention" and requires a medical facility. What quantifies as a medical facility? Does a ship's basic medlab (which I usually say is subsumed in stateroom cost) count as one?

Page 47 of TTB says, "...require a medical facility (local hospital or aid station, the sickbay of a ship, etc.)..."

4) I recall reading somewhere that Medical Slow (LBB2 p.44) requires a low berth while administered AND is lethal if no low berth or medical attention is used. I can't find these rules in LBB2. Also, this is for some reason TL7 (where is my Medical Slow?) and quite cheap.

I haven't seen that before...maybe in another edition of Traveller? MT?

Note that JTAS has extended medical rules for Classic Trav.

 

[rancke]

Perhaps one could go the opposite way and start with what you would like the rules for wounds and healing to clearly and unequivocally explain to players and referee.

Personally, I would like to know:

1) What are the consequences of a wound? (I.e. how does a wound handicap a character?)

2) How long does it take to get better? (I.e. rules for recovery).

3) What can be done to help recovery along? (Treatment).

(With one underlying question to be answered first: How much real time am I prepared to spend dealing with these questions? (In my case: 10-15 minutes after a fight, tops.))


Hans

 

[Supplement Four]

Minor Wound and unconscious* = And damage that reduces only one physical characteristic to zero.

*Unconscious - In my game, I prefer to think of this as "incapacitated" and not necessarily unconscious, but that's just my interpretation.

Note that this is the most likely outcome of combat in Classic Traveller.

Average stats are 777

Average 3D damage is 10.

The first blood rule will render the average target unconscious with a Minor Wound.




Note that a Minor Wound is healed, after the character is conscious, by either three days rest or by 30 minutes spent with a medic and his medpack.

My Main Argument...

This is my main argument that not all damage, resulting from a successful hit with a gun, can possibly be considered a gunshot wound. Gunshot wounds are not the three-day cold. You can't completely heal from a gunshot wound in three days with no medical treatment.

Now, you could argue that Minor Wounds inflicted from guns are grazes. But, that would mean that characters in combat suffer a heck of a lot of grazes--since the unconscious Minor Wound is the most likely outcome of Classic Traveller combat. It happens A LOT.

Remember that Classic Traveller combat does have a strong dose of abstractness mixed in with the rest. This is why I don't always consider a character with one stat at zero as unconscious. Maybe he's dazed. Maybe he's scared, throwing up, unable to act. I make up all sorts of things to keep the character incapacitated for around 10 minutes.

The same goes for the damage. If the character is wearing armor, it's easy to say that the armor stopped the slug, but the character still took a heck of a lot of bruising damage that incapacitated him for 10 minutes.

I also use a House Rule in my game for a Stun....see my signature.

 

[mike wightman]

The first blood rule is totally unrealistic - it is not backed up by any real world data.

Real world data on gunshot wounds show a sizeable percentage of people are unaware that they have been wounded at all.

A certain percentage of gunshot wounds require basic trauma care (pressure to stop the bleeding, disinfecting the wound, covering the wound to prevent infection/stitches/staples).

More serious wounds involve cutting a major blood vessel or perforating an organ resulting in internal bleeding. Depending on the severity of the bleed you may need immediate surgery to prevent bleeding to death or simple pressure may be enough, note that a severed blood vessel may cause very little pain due to adrenalin.

I have a couple of house rules.

1- no first blood rule.
2- critical hit rule - if a natural 12 is rolled to hi then all damage is applied to one random stat as per the first blood rule (this doesn't apply if you can only hit with a natural 12, in that case I roll for a critical 10+ on 2d).
3 - if End is the stat reduced to 0 in a single hit you are potentially bleeding to death
each 15 second combat round lose 1d from another physical stat until you have bleed to death - this damage can be treated very quickly with a transfusion one the wound is stabilised.
4 - one stat reduced to 0 is incapacitated not unconscious - make and End roll to act at the start of each subsequent turn.

 

[Golan2072]

The first blood rule is totally unrealistic - it is not backed up by any real world data.

Real world data on gunshot wounds show a sizeable percentage of people are unaware that they have been wounded at all.

This has the game purpose of allowing a gun shot to incapacitate a person, especially from ambush. Maybe allow it only when there is Surprise to one side? (That is, the ambushers have time to aim and hit sensitive locations?). Otherwise most guns (3D) will never knock out an average person (UPP 777777) in one shot. A Critical rule solves part of this problem, but I'd still like to have a "headshot" capability, at least in ambush and/or against "mooks".

 

[mike wightman]

My take on this is the aimed shot from a prepared position, surprise if you like.

Spend a turn aiming, or achieve surprise and declare an aimed shot and the difficulty is increased but if you make it you achieve a critical hit.

If you want to specify a small target like the head then the difficult increases again, but if you make it you can pick the characteristic.

3d directly to End will put most out of action in a single shot, use a 4d sniper rifle/gauss rifle and you'd be unlucky not to.

In my game most shot miss unless you get lucky or you take the time to aim. But of course if you are in a braced aiming stance that makes you an easier target...

In my house rules;
End = circulatory and organ damage
Str = muscle and bone
Dex = nerve, sensory organ damage

it allows me to describe wounds pretty graphically.

 

[Golan2072]

Thanks for the answers!

What I think I'll use as a baseline is the following:

1) LBB1 p.34 says that if you have one characteristic reduced to zero, once you wake up from unconsciousness (10 minutes), your wounded characteristic would be halfway between the wounded value and the full value; afterwards "a return to full rest requires medical attention... or three days of rest". So does medical attention return the characteristic to its full value at once? Does it require a Medicine throw?

First aid by someone with Medic-1 or better and a medkit cures the flesh wounds in this case in 30 minutes with no roll.

If you want to get an unconscious person with one characteristic at a zero to full fighting state during combat (in 1 round) using stims (TL9+ Medical Drugs), throw 8+ to do so, DM +Medic skill; failure means that character remains unconscious for the rest of the fight and loses further 1D hits due to a wrong dosage of stims.

2) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention". How long does it take to heal? Does this require a Medicine throw?

This takes 5d6 days to heal under the care of a Doctor (Medic-3) at a medical facility (a ship's default Medlab will suffice ala the one on Serenity in Firefly). HOWEVER, if both characteristics have been reduced to zero FROM A SINGLE ATTACK, the victim requires surgery (by a character with Medic-3 and DEX 8+ or by a TL12+ medbot or autodoc) to begin recovery.

3) LBB1 p.34 says that if two characteristics are reduced to zero, "recovery is dependent on medical attention" and requires a medical facility. What quantifies as a medical facility? Does a ship's basic medlab (which I usually say is subsumed in stateroom cost) count as one?

This should suffice.

4) I recall reading somewhere that Medical Slow (LBB2 p.44) requires a low berth while administered AND is lethal if no low berth or medical attention is used. I can't find these rules in LBB2. Also, this is for some reason TL7 (where is my Medical Slow?) and quite cheap.

Medical Slow requires the care of a Doctor (Medic-3 or better) in a medical facility (for intravenous feeding, catheter waste removal and cryogenic cooling), and ages the subject by one month. This allows for recovering from severe injury in one day, very handy for adventurers, but you'll end up an old man if you abuse it.

 

[Golan2072]

My take on this is the aimed shot from a prepared position, surprise if you like.

Spend a turn aiming, or achieve surprise and declare an aimed shot and the difficulty is increased but if you make it you achieve a critical hit.

If you want to specify a small target like the head then the difficult increases again, but if you make it you can pick the characteristic.

3d directly to End will put most out of action in a single shot, use a 4d sniper rifle/gauss rifle and you'd be unlucky not to.

In my game most shot miss unless you get lucky or you take the time to aim. But of course if you are in a braced aiming stance that makes you an easier target...

In my house rules;
End = circulatory and organ damage
Str = muscle and bone
Dex = nerve, sensory organ damage

it allows me to describe wounds pretty graphically.

I like this!

 

[Supplement Four]

The first blood rule is totally unrealistic - it is not backed up by any real world data.

This has the game purpose of allowing a gun shot to incapacitate a person, especially from ambush.

Yes, it's a way of keeping gun combat scary to players, so that they'll respect it, every combat round.

Think about this...

You've got a character with stats 777777. He's Average Joe. Then, Joe gets hit with from a .357 Magnum (Revolver in game terms). Even if maximum damage is rolled (which is less than a 1% chance that three 6's will be rolled), the character is still, completely mobile and has only suffered a Minor Wound, if the First Blood Rule isn't used.

Without the First Blood rule, there is no possibility that the first shot shot will down a target.

In other words, it is 100% Impossible, without the First Blood rule, to down an average human with a .357 Magnum revolver on the very first combat round.

THAT's why the rule exists.





Players are unlikely to fear gun combat (or, really, any combat) like they should because they know that their characters cannot be hurt by anything more than a Minor Wound.

Now, let's say that the First Blood rule is used, as it should be (I definitely think it should be used). That revolver shot is pretty damn scary. In fact, it's a 91% chance that a 7+ will be rolled on 3D, making it highly likely that a successful shot on the first round will end with the character incapacitated and out of the fight because he's unconscious for 10 minutes with due to having one stat at zero.

But, let's say the character gets lucky. Damage is 3, 2, 1, for a total of 6 points. Randomly, this is applied to STR. The character's stats are 177.

The First Blood Rule is only used the first time a character is hurt. After that, it's the player's choice where to put the damage dice (keeping the die as whole number, though). This is no a scarier proposition because the character has a lot less places he can put damage. He can't break up the dice, and if something like 5, 5, 2 is rolled, then the character is toast, unconscious, and out of the fight.


The First Blood Rule is a very necessary part of CT combat.

 

[rancke]

The First Blood Rule is a very necessary part of CT combat.

Or you could say that any wound of up to, say, 6 is a light wound, 7-12 is a serious wound, and 13+ is a mortal wound (or some other breakpoints). So someone with a total of 24 hit points can take a lot of minor wounds but still get laid out flat if he takes a mortal wound -- no matter how many HP he has left.

I've used a similar system for decades and it worked fine. (Unfortunately, I can't give you suitable breakpoints for Traveller damage ranges, because my system uses a single D12 for damage.)


Hans

 

[hdan]

Or you could say that any wound of up to, say, 6 is a light wound, 7-12 is a serious wound, and 13+ is a mortal wound (or some other breakpoints). So someone with a total of 24 hit points can take a lot of minor wounds but still get laid out flat if he takes a mortal wound -- no matter how many HP he has left.

Reminds me of MegaTraveller - they compute stats like what animals have (two numbers - knockout/kill). Now they also have a mildly convoluted way convert in-combat damage into after-combat stat hits....

I like that idea in theory, since "mooks" never need more detailed stats than animals currently get (knockout/kill, armor, weapon, hit bonus) in practice, but players like to manage these things themselves in my experience.

 

[Supplement Four]

Reminds me of MegaTraveller - they compute stats like what animals have (two numbers - knockout/kill).

IIRC, MT computes damage at the end of the round, right? So, you can shoot an kill someone, but they still get a chance to fire back at you--because they won't be dead until the end of the round.

 

[hdan]

IIRC, MT computes damage at the end of the round, right? So, you can shoot an kill someone, but they still get a chance to fire back at you--because they won't be dead until the end of the round.

That sounds right. I also remember that when you're applying dice of damage after the combat, if you weren't knocked unconscious, you have to make sure that you don't zero any stats.

I never actually /played/ MT though, just CT and MgT, so I have no idea how well those rules worked in practice. MT has some very interesting ideas in it though.