How common is space travel in Traveller

[LeperColony]

Will the average person ever travel off world? 5k for mid passage seems doable for most people if they are really interested. 1k for low passage would allow for fairly regular visits, in the same manner as overseas vacations. Perhaps once every 1-3 years or so.

On the other hand, whether or not it actually ever says so, I've always had the impression that travel in Traveller was mainly for the rich, or them that make a living from it.

 

[robject]

I understood interstellar travel to be uncommon, and typically driven by business, the military, or politics: on the average, approx. one in a million people ever leave their homeworld.

 

[far-trader]

Rob's covered my perception pretty much

 

[Dragoner]

IMTU, fairly common; for me, I don't use the SM as a universal paradigm for charted space. Though the average person doesn't become an adventurer. Just someone called me today with a problem, I had to take over some work because their daughter was trapped at an airport, she is 22. Huh, I thought. At 16 I was dumped at schiphol in Amsterdam because of a Red Brigade or someone scare in Bavaria closed Munich and I had to take the train down from Amsterdam. I loved it, met the most gorgeous Serbian girl.

 

[rancke]

There's a discrepancy between the logical ramifications of the high cost of starship travel and the level of traffic implied by various adventures and setting material. We've got tourists and small businessmen and even vagabonds gaily traipsing among the stars and starports that are as busy as hub airports.

Personally I feel that the adventure opportunities created by "realistic" star travel, while real enough, are much fewer than the opportunities that more affordable traffic would enable, so I tend to favor reducing the cost of star travel whenever and however I can (the double occupancy Economy Passage is a favorite of mine) and for the rest I sometimes deliberately overlook "realism".

I'm a bit in two minds on the subject, actually. I've been working on an adventure set on a world canonically known for having significant income from tourists (Heya) and have been trying to work out the profile of typical tourists when the cost of getting to the vacation spot is several passages (Efate to Heya, for example -- two jump-2 and one jump-3 (and back again)). Wealthy retired upper middle class without children, stays for several months, very few "backpackers" -- that sort of thing.


Hans

 

[Gray Pennell]

Space travel is relative to wealth of the worlds the traveller comes from. In our time Westerns travel more than an African. Same is true of the Romans and Nobles of the Middle Ages. In the Traveller universe many many people live in prosperity and many many dont.

It was said that one in a million travel in space. I have seen populations for the spinward marchs (a unsettled backwards sector) in the trillions that implies hundreds trillions in know space. Thats 100s of millions of travelers. With 5000 or so for the large liners or 500,000 liners moving through out space. With about 30,000 systems thats 15 or so liners coming and going to any given system.

Now there are three key factors limiting this movement. The first as I said was wealth. Poor systems will be less traveled to moving the ships to other systems. The second is where a system falls in galatic space. People stuck in systems at jump 4 or greater away from other systems are less likely to travel than the denser systems moving more ships to the core worlds. Finally technology limits support and likely hood of a space travel. Lets face it if you dont have a space port or space technology your not going to travel that often. Even more ships are moved to the core.

With all this taken into account you can see dozen if not hundreds of liners moving within the core sectors with fringe areas only seeing that many in a year and even less for other systems. So the answer is simply you travel if you can. Indeed I would bet travel from a backwater system to a core/main rout will cost more than a core/main route. This is like flying from Kannas to NY NY to fly to London. As a ration of expensive the first part of the journey is more costly than the trip to london.

In the end space travel is very common for those who lucky to be the Traveller versions of NY NY or Pairs.

 

[rancke]

Space travel is relative to wealth of the worlds the traveller comes from. In our time Westerns travel more than an African. Same is true of the Romans and Nobles of the Middle Ages. In the Traveller universe many many people live in prosperity and many many dont.

The average wealth of a citizen of TL15 world is higher than that of one from a TL7 world like contemporary Earth, true, but a trip to somewhere a bit farther away than the world next door is still comparatively expensive. A trip to a world three jumps away will cost more than two years' income (for a return trip) for an average inhabitant of such a TL15 world. That's take-home pay, but still. Even a trip to an adjacent world will cost eight months' income (No other travel expenses such as food and lodging at the destination included).


Hans

 

[ShapeShifter]

Will the average person ever travel off world?

Not IMTU. My prime model for CT consists of the Dumarest books by E.C. Tubb. Most people were too poor to go off-world, or most didn't think it was an option for them. Only corporate or merchantile types, powerful galaxy-spanning organisations (e.g. the Cyclan), religious organisations (e.g. the Universal Brotherhood), military (e.g. Mote in God's Eye), nobility (ibid., and Winds of Gath, et al.), etc. would have the resources to travel up.

5k for mid passage seems doable for most people if they are really interested. 1k for low passage would allow for fairly regular visits, in the same manner as overseas vacations. Perhaps once every 1-3 years or so.

On the other hand, whether or not it actually ever says so, I've always had the impression that travel in Traveller was mainly for the rich, or them that make a living from it.

It depends on what the average income may be on a given world. If we say that the typical person (the RL 'middle-class', if you will) makes about Cr2K/annum, then (if we go by LBB1p23-4) a low passage would be half what a person could make in a year. That's a substantial investment for something with a pretty risky 15% kill-rate. Middle passage at Cr8K seems awfully high, IMHO. The illusory middle-class might not exist at all on many worlds, esp. fringe worlds described in the Dumarest books which were remote, with little natural, exploitable resources, no significant industry and were only populated sparsely by the stranded poor and a smattering of idle wealthy who were there for tourism purposes.

I've read the first five Dumarest novels and there is little if any reference to money, credits, etc. but passages are mentioned with great frequency as if they themselves were the only currency. Mobility is life. Mobility is survival, and that is the key issue. If you get stuck on a dead-end world with little chance to make enough to leave, you're dead. Ships may be taking off and landing every day, but unless you have passage, you have no hope of getting off that worthless rock and you will die there. Stowaways are tossed into the airlock and flushed. Pretty bleak, but that's the main thread running from novel to novel.

 

[LeperColony]

The average person makes 2k a year? Really? That seems awfully low.

Also, does LB really have a 15% death rate? In TNE (the only system I'm actually somewhat familiar with) it isn't nearly that brutal.

I did forget that mid is 8k, and not 5k. Really, mid pricing seems really silly. From a consumer standpoint, what you get for 8k is half of what you would get for 10k. If only the well off can travel, you'd think they'd just pay the 2k more.

 

[steventirey1985]

In CT, your typical ground car was 4000 credits. A middle passage ticket was twice that. If your average car today costs say, $20000 American, thats a $40,000 ticket. For each middle passanger. Even if a middle passage ticket was 5000 credits, thats still more then a car. And thats just for the outgoing trip. Coming back requires a 2nd ticket. A family of 4 going on vacation and travelling middle passage could by 8 brand new cars just for the price they paid for the tickets. ("Only" 5 cars if you use the actual cost of 8000 credits per ticket.)

The CT low berth was much more affordable - only 1000 credits. (1/4th the price of a ground car, so say around $5000.) To survive your low berth passage required a roll of 5+. Statistically, thats about a 16.6% chance of failure, and so death. Having a competent doctor there (Medic 2 or higher) did drop that to less then 3% though.

An ordinary level of living costs Cr200 per month for food, and Cr200 on lodging. Think about how much 10 months of house payments/rent and food cost just for a single middle passage ticket. 2.5 months for a low passage ticket.

 

[Enoki]

I would think the rate would not be much different than it is here on Earth both now and in the past.

First, you need a reason to travel. Immigration, work, tourism would be the big three.

Immigrants would generally be paying possibly their life savings to move to their new home. They would likely be seeking mid or low passage to do so.

Work. Your employer or employment requires you to travel. Military, government, corporate, or personal depending on who you are and what you do. Large corporations couldn't conduct business only by X-boat or messaging. Too slow. You'd have to send a represenative to get things done.

Couriers would be another business. You carry things that cannot be trusted in X-boats or cargo. You are trusted to deliver them intact and unopened in many cases.

Military and government. Transfers, or any of the above. Training is also a possibility.

Tourism. Could be the once in a lifetime cruise or foreign adventure or, you could be filthy rich and just enjoy the lifestyle. For the young and relatively poor there is working passage, low berths, and I would suppose hitchhiking even.

Retired military, government, or corporate might have a "space available" option on ships. That is, if there is room for you they let you go for free or a nominal fee.

 

[steventirey1985]

Will the average person ever travel off world?

After thinking about it, I believe this needs to be clarified. Do we mean travel between 2 star systems? Or does travel to an orbital station, moon, or nearby planet in the same system count?

The passage tickets are all for traveling between systems. How much for a ticket cost if you never left the system? I would say space travel within the same system would be far more common then interstellar travel. (Though Classic Traveller does say its rare.)

Travel to a far-away planet could take a week (and so probably cost about the same as a normal ticket), but what about the 15 to 37 hour trip to a close neighbor world? Or the 1.5 to 5 hour trip to the planets moon?

The average person makes 2k a year? Really? That seems awfully low

Unlikely. The long term subsistence costs in Classic Traveller indicate that your average person would have to earn more then 2000 credits a year. Starvation-level living costs 1,440 credits/year for a bare minimum amount of food and dismal lodgings. Subsistence level living (reasonable food, acceptable lodging) costs 3600 credits per person per year. Ordinary-level living (good food and lodging) costs 4800 credits per person per year. That just covers food and lodging. (I would assume that monthly bills are included in the lodging price.)

If an ordinary level of living costs 4800 credits per year, then your ordinary person would have to earn at least that, and would actually earn more. Otherwise, its nor an ordinary level of living, its above average.

 

[CosmicGamer]

While wealth matters, sometimes it may be the opposite of whats mentioned.

My family history includes a time when family members traveled for work opportunities in other countries for months and even years then came back home and shared new wealth with their family.

In a situation where one world A is wealthier, more luxurious, and has more opportunities to gain wealth than its neighboring world B which is poor, low tech, unorganized or dangerous, there could be few people from A wanting to go to B but the poor folk on B might scrape and save for the opportunity to go to A.

I wouldn't expect the tourist type traveller spending 2 of their 3 weeks vacation in jump on some tramp freighter or as a popsicle. Maybe taking a trip on a fancy liner where the trip itself is half the fun.

 

[ShapeShifter]

The average person makes 2k a year? Really? That seems awfully low.

I asked around here and the grogs told me that was the median income in the Imperium. I don't have any inkling where they got that figure.

Also, does LB really have a 15% death rate? In TNE (the only system I'm actually somewhat familiar with) it isn't nearly that brutal.

Fifteen percent comes from many of the Dumarest books. From LBB1:

A character does not age while in cold sleep.

Here LBB1 differs from the books which say that a passenger in Low Passage is 90% dead, which I take to mean that the passenger does age but very, very slowly. Minor quibble. Again LBB1:

Because of the intrinsic dangers of this method of travel, a basic throw of 5+ applies when the journey is over and the low passenger is revived. Failure of the throw results in death...

Now, failure (=death) occurs on a roll of 2, 3 or 4, which is 3 in 11, or 27.3% if my maths are correct. To model the books more closely you could either do a simple percentile roll or roll 1 in 6 which is 16.67% -- i.e. a little higher, but close. Personally I would roll the %d to see if the passenger dies in suspension.

 

[steventirey1985]

Now, failure (=death) occurs on a roll of 2, 3 or 4, which is 3 in 11, or 27.3% if my maths are correct.

Only correct if you are rolling on one 11-sided die. With the standard 2 6-sided dice method, the results aren't linear, but form a bell curve. You are more likely to roll certain numbers. Needing a 5+ on 2d6 means there is a 16.6% chance of failure.

 

[Cryton]

Hmmmm. How common is space travel in Traveller? Common enough for the game to be called Traveller, and common enough to get a surprising amount of passengers at each stop that my little merchant makes on its rounds, but not so common that I can run a liner out of all those low pop worlds.

 

[BytePro]

These prices and their in-game consequences never bothered me.

If one goes by the rules as written there is also only one interstellar starport per system. If all of earth's leisure travel went via one airport - even with much higher rates and therefore only a mere fraction of the leisure travel - that still would be a lot. Then consider that is an entire system's population going through a single port.

(Mind I ignored this and the costs and make up my own rules IMTU... but the RAW is an okay baseline.)

According to the annual World Wealth Report from Merill Lynch and Capgemini, the U.S. had 3.1 million millionaires in 2010, up from 2.86 million in 2009. The latest figure tops the pre-crisis peak of three million.

Merrill and Capgemini define millionaires as individuals with $1 million or more in investible assets, not including primary home, collectibles, consumables and consumer durables.
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/06/22/u-s-has-record-number-of-millionaires/

The U.S. Census Bureau announced today that the 2010 Census showed the resident population of the United States on April 1, 2010, was 308,745,538.
http://2010.census.gov/news/releases/operations/cb10-cn93.html

If your TU represents something akin to that* - then ~1% could easily afford interstellar travel - even multiple jump ones...

Being very conservative:
Every billion people-> 10 million travelers. Even if they only took one trip a lifetime with an average 100 year expectancy (and no kids or immigrants) -> that is an average 125,000 travelers per year per billion (~ 10,000 a month/billion).

*noted that the world isn't the U.S., but in the context of interstellar empires, planets can be analogous to countries. So many less affluent worlds would have lower numbers - but it still adds up real quick.

The “raw” average wage--net compensation divided by total number of workers--was $39,959.30, according to the data from the Social Security Administration. But the median wage is far lower: 50 percent of workers earned less than or equal to $26,363.55 for 2010.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-median-us-wage-in-2010-was-just-26363-government-reports/2011/10/20/gIQAdabX0L_blog.html

Just something else to consider: those making above the median average make up for those making below the mean average. 'Stats' often aren't fully qualified. Ditto OTU figures unless explicitly stated/derived otherwise.

 

[aramis]

I doubt that even 1 in a million people travel the stars. Most have no need. Back in the days of multi-week travels across the ocean, ocean journeys were for a rare and crazy few.

IMTU, divide the pop number by 1d6, round down, and there's the number of individuals who have been off world... DM+3 if TL below 9, DM+1 if LL>9.

 

[LeperColony]

I doubt that even 1 in a million people travel the stars. Most have no need. Back in the days of multi-week travels across the ocean, ocean journeys were for a rare and crazy few.

IMTU, divide the pop number by 1d6, round down, and there's the number of individuals who have been off world... DM+3 if TL below 9, DM+1 if LL>9.

Perhaps no need, but what about interest? I have no need to see the Pyramids, but I sure hope to one day.

It sounds like the consensus is the math of the basic books makes it such that the average 3Ier not only has never been off-system, but they don't even know anyone who has. That's sort of bleak.

 

[ShapeShifter]

Only correct if you are rolling on one 11-sided die. With the standard 2 6-sided dice method, the results aren't linear, but form a bell curve. You are more likely to roll certain numbers. Needing a 5+ on 2d6 means there is a 16.6% chance of failure.

Thanks. I suspected my brain was malfunctioning.