But some of those alloys require huge industrial plants to manufacture.
(No, this is not canon. But neither is it contra-canonical).But not all of it can be done with a 100T 3D printer. [Insert 'not canon' disclaimer].
Hans
CT Only: How do you create space-stations?
- Thread starter tim_manley
- Start date
(No, this is not canon. But neither is it contra-canonical).Hans
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
It's contra real world so its contra canon 
Alloys require molten metal, easily achieved with cheap fusion and electricity.
Grav manipulation would make producing a lot of alloys a lot easier. Monocrystal alloys are likely to be a benefit of orbital manufacture and grav manipulation.
Alloys require molten metal, easily achieved with cheap fusion and electricity.
Grav manipulation would make producing a lot of alloys a lot easier. Monocrystal alloys are likely to be a benefit of orbital manufacture and grav manipulation.
salochin999
SOC-13
Thing is - would it be quicker / cheaper to construct the flat-pack components in the grade A system and jump them to where you're building the orbital gas stations or construct the flat-pack component manufacturing facilities in each system?
It might depend on how close the location of nearest mining resources is I guess - which might be quite close for gas giants with lots of moons?
It might depend on how close the location of nearest mining resources is I guess - which might be quite close for gas giants with lots of moons?
It would be if it was, but it isn't so it isn't.It's contra real world so its contra canon
You have no idea what TL9+ alloys require. Besides, I use 'alloys' as a shorthand for all the other esoteric materials TL9+ items require.
Indeed. Grav manipulation is the only reason why some TL9+ materials can be manufactured at all. And even then it takes huge expensive manufacturing complexes to do it.
Indubitally. Not to mation all the other complicated material needed for many TL9+ items.
But seriously, there's another aspect other than plausibility and verisimilitude, namely, what do you want your PCs to be capable of? What do you want your NPCs to be capable of?
High technology has the potential to short-circuit so many plots. Nxt time you're reading a book or watching a movie or a series that is more than a couple of decades old, see how many plots would have been ruined by ubiquitous mobile phones, for example.
The one big weakness high technology has is breaking down. I can handle 3D printers that can make simple tools and replacement parts, but I really don't want my PCs to be able to toss shovel-full of ore in the manufactor's hopper and pressing a button in order to get a replacement gauss pistol or communicator or grav module.
Nor do I want space stations to be as cheap and easy to build as your suggestion implies. Possible, yes, cheap, no. That has nothing to do with how plausible I find replicators to be and everything to do with how I want my TU to function. Not to mention that many of the items on the trade lists would not really be trade items if they can be manufactured by loading a file and pressing a button.
Hans
salochin999
SOC-13
Yes, if you want this in space.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/04/article-2242634-165858F4000005DC-333_634x802.jpg
then you have to work the tech backwards to fit
Yes, if you want this in space.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/04/article-2242634-165858F4000005DC-333_634x802.jpg
then you have to work the tech backwards to fit
It's not a dichotomy. You can have ultra-tech without having it dominate the plot. At least, I very much hope so. I don't have enough imagination to set an interesting campaign in anything akin to Larry Niven's Safe at Any Speed setting.
Hans
Depends on the tech level. :devil:
Seriously though, speculating too deep on how one would construct a space station is a little like a 1776 house builder trying to figure out how to build an Empire State Building. Maybe it takes huge expensive manufacturing complexes, maybe it takes very clever nanobots. Maybe we can subject asteroid rock to intense heat and gravitational pressure and make stone as strong as superdense alloy. Maybe we can make a biological organism that takes in "food" and grows into a space station hull and then dies, leaving the hull ready to be occupied. Maybe we can make a Von Neumann worker bot that builds the space station and builds more worker bots as they're needed, then cannibalizes those bots to complete the final stages.
We've got a reasonable framework of rules for ship construction and how long it takes and how much it costs, without needing to know whether our parts are coming out of 100dT 3D printers with fusion plants or arriving prefabricated from massive orbital factories 3 parsecs off or built by hordes of nanobots knitting them together molecule by molecule. That framework serves reasonably for building other space-based constructs, since they've all got to have a certain strength of hull to resist space hazards and they've all got to provide basic features like life support and gravity. The details are really story background so long as we're more or less within the framework.
Several Architects of the 1770's were contemplating tall structures, and working out the material needs for tall buildings.
Keeping in mind that the Romans were capable of 8-10 story concrete buildings in the first century AD...
Several colonial architects realized that Iron skeletons could be useful, but lacking consistency, it wasn't practical. They also realized that stone buildings could be built to 5+ stories (as NYC proved - some of the 4-story walk-ups are pre-US).
So, certainly they were contemplating it. They didn't have all the answers, but they did know it would require a metal skeleton and light walls instead of the heavy load-bearing shell common to stone construction.
Many conceptions well predate the ability to manufacture them. DaVinci was contemplating helicopters, after all.
salochin999
SOC-13
Sure. For me the reason for thinking about this kind of stuff is to generate ideas for adventures / setting detail. In particular I liked the idea of a nomadic sub-culture revolving around a space version of this
http://www.postersmagic.com/images/ap-1028156ct.jpg
as a sub-culture connected to belters and smuggling etc, maybe with it's own "other" career etc.
That's how the Enterprise was built in 2009. And it's bigger than today's space stations.
How about putting maneuver drives on huge chunks of space stations and then place them in orbit for snapping together? Maybe that was decided on already.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Available infrastructure will influence the construction approach, as will desired time to operational status, and the degree of expertise with space-borne assembly.
If my tech base allows me to push big pieces into orbit readily, ground-side construction, or at least some significant pre-assembly, is more likely. Limited ability to push materials into orbit from the ground will likely result in more assembly in orbit. If I need a station over a world with no tech base, I'm jumping up components that are much more likely to be pre-finished.
At the same time, if I need a station two parsecs over *right* *now*, I'm reactivating that old Monitor, using a Rider Tender to get it where I want it, and parking it. The planet under it is no factor except possibly for determining the need to be there.
Define the parameters first. The rest follows.
If my tech base allows me to push big pieces into orbit readily, ground-side construction, or at least some significant pre-assembly, is more likely. Limited ability to push materials into orbit from the ground will likely result in more assembly in orbit. If I need a station over a world with no tech base, I'm jumping up components that are much more likely to be pre-finished.
At the same time, if I need a station two parsecs over *right* *now*, I'm reactivating that old Monitor, using a Rider Tender to get it where I want it, and parking it. The planet under it is no factor except possibly for determining the need to be there.
Define the parameters first. The rest follows.
salochin999
SOC-13
Yeah that's what I'm thinking for the "module" parts of the station: the bridge module, warehouse modules, saloon module, motel modules, offices etc could all be ships that are bolted together above a gas giant and refitted. At the same time though I was imagining giant fuel tanks like this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/MiRO4.jpg
for the merchant ships passing through and they could be constructed from girders bolted together to form a skeleton and then a skin of panels attached over the skeleton. like a skyscraper is constructed now. The girders and panels could be jumped in as flat packs (or manufactured on site) and the "rigger" sub-culture I like the idea of would be the people who bolted them together.
I'm seeing in my head those same gas tanks in orbit on space girders. But the girders are actually a tower that reaches down to the planet surface. Gas can be pumped up from the surface to the tanks or a space elevator can haul filled tanks up there and bring down empty ones for refill.
Ships slowly dock to the tip of such towers to get refueled. There are lots of these towers on the planet along the equator. Lots of room for hazard events to occur for both PCs and NPCs.
salochin999
SOC-13
Interesting idea
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
For a setting without reliable gravitics, yes, though you might need those anyway to pump a light fluid that far vertically.
There's ways of getting it done in the far future.
Only way I see to build something like that is to start in space and build out and in at the same time so the forces balance. Otherwise, the weight per square inch on a ground-side foundation would be absolutely insane.
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