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How fast does the Imperial Navy react?

I thought it looked familiar. ;)
Do you know if anyone has made a timeline for the die-backs in Dies the Fire?

There could be a religious angle for your food storage needs. A religious sect in the US, the Mormons, are each supposed to keep a certain amount of food on hand at all times. Of course, Kinorbians who are known to do the same will become targets...
I was thinking about the risk of Vargr raids. Such a raid might easily disrupt distribution networks for several days. Localized, of course, but every urban concentration might be hit. So there are emergency stores for, say, 14 days (double the worst case scenario?), in every community, spread over one warehouse per neighborhood.

And how much of the food will be spoiled or inaccessible with the systems collapse? Will Kinorb even store or process foods as we do today?
Emergency rations would be specifically designed for long-term storage, low bulk and long shelf life.

Kinorb may be TL8, but that doesn't mean it's our TL8. Kinorb member of a hi-tech Imperium in the 57th Century and there could be quite a bit of TL15 "retro-tech" about...
These emergency rations may actually be palatable ;).

The regions that cannot sustain themselves will collapse to point where they can sustain themselves. With the planetary transport net down and little transport in private hands, the capital city and the regions around are dead. Everyone is going to die by starvation, violence, or some mixture of the two well before the Fleet jumps in.
So the time limit for the adventure would be a lot less than a month. Hmm... how much less?

Also, because the capital's "starvation contagion" can only spread by foot, the rest of the planet's regions should be spared the worst effects IF they are have enough food, either stored or scavenged, and IF their population densities aren't too high. Smaller cities may be very well becomes "starvation bombs" too.
Once the food and water problem is over, there's always looting and ill will between various population groups (The native Kinorbians have become second-class citizens on their own world and many of them resent the **** out of the tourists and retirees. They also resent the company. And the company has just lost a lot of their ability to move guards around. And guess which population group the company is going to concentrate on saving first?)

We'd send aid and relief workers, we always send aid and relief workers.
Bill, the analogy was a response to ther suggestion that no one at Efate would care enough to send any help at all. I say that even before humanitarian sentiments enter into it, both the Imperium and the Efatan authorities have a great deal of political interest in caring.

Having someone in the government or military very quickly proclaim martial law and then deploy troops, call up militia, deputize citizens to strongly enforce food stockpiling and rationing upon pain of death until help can arrive would be a good start. Is there a National Guard or some similar organization? How about prior service clubs like the American Legion? Or even fraternal organizations like the Masons? If they exist, you should get them all involved somehow.
Nope, just the retirees and tourists, plus the infrastructure to run the world. A bit like the British in India, although the demographics are quite different.

I finished the loathsome Draka series on inertia mostly, had to see the end of the train wreck I suppose. Put down the second Nantucket book halfway through and haven't had the urge to pick it back up.
I never started on the Draka, but I liked the Nantucket series enough to keep it and I reread it once in a while.


Hans
 
I was thinking about the risk of Vargr raids.

Non-existent?

Unless such raids were regular before the disaster they won't suddenly start because of it. Any such raid in response to the disaster will suffer the same delay of information as that in getting help, only no one is likely to be sending a high jump courier to the nearest Vargr world saying "come raid us" :)

And if such raids on such a world were regular before the disaster I'm sure it would have been long ago and stopped by Imperial Forces. Was an SDB squadron mentioned? Is that what they're for?

And if Vargr do come raiding eventually, they'll find that disaster response fleet of Imperial Navy ships got there before them. Blam, end of Vargr raid.

So, no. No Vargr raider problems. Unless...

...they had inside information on this Y2C problem.Proof positive that it would happen. Probably even to the point of being part of creating the problem. Then yeah, you'll have your Vargr raiders if you want them. And right on time. As in the world goes dark and you can see the garish Vargr corsairs landing soon after the chaos. Certainly before the week is up but after the frantic dispatch of couriers. Ideally striking while the SDB fleet is busy with the problem of filling in until help arrives...

...maybe it is some Vargr behind it after all.
 
rancke said:
I was thinking about the risk of Vargr raids.
Non-existent?

Unless such raids were regular before the disaster they won't suddenly start because of it. Any such raid in response to the disaster will suffer the same delay of information as that in getting help, only no one is likely to be sending a high jump courier to the nearest Vargr world saying "come raid us" :)
No no no. I'm talking about precautionary measures that are in place because the people of Kinorb consider the risk of Vargr raids existent.

Kinorb's history (as I've written it) is riddled with Vargr raids up until 200 years ago. In 912, a particularly destructive raid left the population of Kinorb in a desperate plight, their numbers decimated and their infrastructure in shambles. At this point a consortium of Efatan businessmen offered to provide Kinorb with adequate planetary defenses in return for permission to build tourist resorts and retirement villages in its most pleasant and beautiful regions. After some negotiations, a deal was struck, and the Kinorb Project was inargurated on 030-921.

Kinorb's new defenses proved well able to fend off casual corsair raids. Only during the Third, Fourth, and Fifth Frontier Wars were the Vargr able to gather enough strength to be a serious threat, and even then the defenses were able to ward off the worst.

And if such raids on such a world were regular before the disaster I'm sure it would have been long ago and stopped by Imperial Forces. Was an SDB squadron mentioned? Is that what they're for?
Yes. However, the defenses took a severe beating during 5FW and have not been brought up to snuff yet.

The point is that in the past (last time only ten years ago), Kinorb has suffered disruption of parts of its infrastructure due to Vargr raids. Hence defense measures include emergency rations designed to keep the urban concentrations fed for a little while.


Hans
 
Do you know if anyone has made a timeline for the die-backs in Dies the Fire?


Hans,

The suggested period I read runs from days to about a week. Once the catastrophe sinks in, people begin acting like... well... people. The hunger certainly begins within a week and, as Spinward Scout points out, thirst begins much sooner than that. Deaths from starvation depend on a host of thing, but 2-3 weeks is a nice round figure.

I was thinking about the risk of Vargr raids.

Like Civil Defense stores? That could work. It just depends on how often Kinorb has been hit, how large the risk looms in people's minds, how efficient the government is, etc., etc., etc.

This might be an odd question but, if the Vargr are threat enough to require Civil Defense stores, why weren't all those planetary systems more robust?

These emergency rations may actually be palatable ;).

True. I was thinking more along the lines of fishing, farming, and ranching regions having food in various stages of being "processed".


Regards,
Bill
 
The suggested period I read runs from days to about a week. Once the catastrophe sinks in, people begin acting like... well... people. The hunger certainly begins within a week and, as Spinward Scout points out, thirst begins much sooner than that. Deaths from starvation depend on a host of thing, but 2-3 weeks is a nice round figure.
I was hoping for something like a regular shedule. You know "Day 5: Cities are practically empty, X% of population is dead, Y% has reached Z km from the city...", etc., etc.



Hans
 
I was hoping for something like a regular shedule. You know "Day 5: Cities are practically empty, X% of population is dead, Y% has reached Z km from the city...", etc., etc.
anything you came up with that sounded reasonable would be well within the range of possibility.

as for people "acting like people" bill likes to take the low view of humanity. some paranoid groups will have some backup plans, some will have extra resources, many retirees will be ex-military and will tend to form a semi-cohesive force, many will have gardens or homes in the wilderness, some will have swimming pools of extra water, and even a deenergized water system will have quite a bit of water within it accessible by gravity feed. one may readily expect some level of chaos, but it won't be a "three meals missed and the city is burning" situation.

and if there are sdb's in-system they can be used to perform a great deal of short-term transportation, both food in and people out. they can also be used to power water distribution, emergency services communications, and other necessary functions. they're also great for shutting down riots.
 
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I think I was the one that mentioned the SDB flotilla, but only passing, and not as an active element at Kinorb, but rather just a patrol element in another system that had received word of the catastrophe.

That is to say if an X-boat jumped in system with the latest (week old) news of when the outbreak just took place, and an SDB squadron was there to pick up the feed, then the SDB commander might double down by relaying the info to base, and state his readiness. Or, if said flotilla (or even a single ship) were a cog in a communication's network, and it was their duty to pass on the info, then they'd do just that, but the CO probably would not act on his own initiative and order his ships to make course for Kinorb.

p.s. I'm really getting P.O'd at my computer right now... :mad:
 
A few thoughts:

People enjoy playing RPGs with flesh-eating zombies - I see no less thrill/pleasure if the 'zombies' aren't dead yet and don't shuffle. Maybe I'm not as squeamish as MM and your good self, Hans - YMMV.

The main question isn't as simple as how much food/water exists, or even how it could be distributed. The main factor is who possesses it.

Just as in pre-event life, there will be a few haves and a lot of have-nots. Those few who have the strength to raid food (led by organised crime) will stockpile far more than they need, looking to the long term, and this will drastically reduce the amount left for the crumb-feeders.

The question for the majority left with nothing is 'how many meals will you miss without hope before you kill for food/drink?' and 'will you kill to defend what food/drink you have?'

When civilisation breaks down, the civilised die first.

I'll have a stab at the timeline, but be warned, it's not pretty:

Spoiler:

Day 1 - Stunned shock and disbelief. Some opportunistic looting. Some still go to work, or try to. Authorities not coping with emergencies.
Day 2 - Weekend syndrome. Pubs drunk dry. Looting and alcohol violence increase. Local police/militia in street battles. Attempt at martial law, curfew.
Day 3 - As Day 2 but getting worse.
Day 4 - Possibly as Day 3.
Day 5 - Home supplies of food and water run out. Widespread looting, authorities overwhelmed by procurement gangs. Increase of those unmentionable crimes. Exodus begins.
Day 6 - As Day 5, getting worse. Infrastructure ripped out for barter goods. Charnel stench from bodies on the streets.
Day 7 - Possibly as Day 6.
Day 8 - Increasingly from Day 6, those unwilling to fight will give up hope and leave. Mass exodus. Raider packs hack down the refugee column to loot for supplies. Many will not make it over the city line.
Day 9 - In the city, Mad Max gangs holding most of the city's food will fight each other for their stockpiles and burn bodies in the streets. Many will survive until order is restored in a few weeks/months time. Outside the city, the thousands who survived the column raids will themselves raid the houses, gardens, fields and orchards of the surrounding countryside.

Day 10+ - If they are on foot, figure the 'army ant' radius will increase by 7 miles per day; if they have vehicles, figure 35 miles per day. When the number density in that day's advance ring only (say) triples the normal local population density, they should be able to survive until relief arrives. (I'm figuring a typical farming family could probably host two refugee families indefinitely). But the slash and burn effect will have destroyed everything inside of that day's radius.
Edit: My guess would be that most deaths will be due to violence, not thirst and starvation. People will leave the city before they die of deficiency and will drink river water before they die of thirst. They may reach a survivable population density before they die of starvation, and the ill-effects of drinking contaminated water may not kill them before help arrives.
Tailor the figures and censor the details to match the game you want to play.
 
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If the Age of Sail analogy holds true in this respect, yes. Unless the political masters are actually present, that is. Since Norris is down in Mora and Josephine of Efate is on Regina, subbing for Norris, I think the admiral would be able to act fairly freely.

After all, the noble who usually tells the regular IN what to do is the sector duke. Josephine's deputy probably has the legal right to veto any plan of the admiral's, but it would cost him dearly to do so and be disawowed later.


Hans
I agree with you about the autonomy of IN ship captains/admirals.

Who is the ranking noble on Kinorb, is it he/she making the 'request'.

When is this scenario set by the way? Efate was pretty busy in the run up to the FFW, the IN base may not have much in the way of resources that can be spared.

I'm also wondering what the megacorps would do in the event of a disaster such as this.
 
Who is the ranking noble on Kinorb, is it he/she making the 'request'.
I haven't worked that out yet. According to an analysis of mine, Kinorb has a marquis (who is also Baron of Dentus). A die roll just now makes the current one female. But I haven't decided if she's on Kinorb when it happens. Nor have I decided on her relationship with the company and the locals or her attitude to the (social) conflict between them.

Thinking it over, I suppose Kinorb's noble would have made a point of showing up for a 200th Anniversary celebration. So, yes, she's there. I'm not sure how much difference she's going to make.

I've made the Scout Commander in charge of the X-boat tender, on his own initiative, dispatch both his available X-boats as soon as he knew what had happened. That would have been without consulting the Marchioness. So she can't send a message of her own until the next sheduled X-boat arrives, or she digs up a courier.

When is this scenario set by the way? Efate was pretty busy in the run up to the FFW, the IN base may not have much in the way of resources that can be spared.
The event happens on 030-1121 at 12:00 GST (Galactic Standard Time, which is the same as GMT). The adventure is set in the GTU, but it would happen in the OTU too.

I'm also wondering what the megacorps would do in the event of a disaster such as this.
Try to buy up Kinorb Utilities & Trade (the holding company) cheap?


Hans
 
When civilisation breaks down, the civilised die first.

I'll have a stab at the timeline, but be warned, it's not pretty:

This man has no faith in humanity ;-) Note to self, do not seek post-apocalyptic shelter with Icosahedron...

How does the saying go? "Every city is three missed meals away from anarchy"
 
It kind of reminds me of that Farside cartoon where there's a group of people and a dog in a life boat. You know the one. :oo:
 
as for people "acting like people" bill likes to take the low view of humanity.


Fly,

Well you know...

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. ;)

one may readily expect some level of chaos, but it won't be a "three meals missed and the city is burning" situation.

I fully expect the city to burn and begin to burn in certain places after only three missed meals.

I also fully expect the various groups you mentioned to band together and create some order. Just how long they can go before they're swamped, or even if they're swamped at all, will depend on a host of factors the most of which have to do with the population density around them.

and if there are sdb's in-system...

Agreed. The SDB flotilla can be of great help, but there are still 6 million people on the planet.


Regards,
Bill
 
By the way, this is an awesome scenario, Rancke.

People who put aside extra food do it several ways:

1) A couple of days worth of food for the 'just in case'
2) A week's worth of food so they don't have to go to the store.
3) A month's worth of food for the same reason
4) Extra on payday
5) Long term storage of up to a year or more - the Mormons and the Amish do this

When people get thirsty they will drink anything, including blood. But some people won't. Cannibalism goes the same way. Some people just won't do it. They'd rather die first.
 
This man has no faith in humanity ;-) Note to self, do not seek post-apocalyptic shelter with Icosahedron...

<picture of innocence> Who, me??

Nobody throwing rival timelines into the pot?
What about the 'humanity is good'/'adversity brings us together' timeline?
 
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