mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
And, back to what GrognardJeff just said, Into the belly of the beast could also work as a 1248 era adventure 
(hypothetical) What would you ask Dave Nilsen?
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M
Malenfant
Guest
Good to see you here, Dave
ChaserCaffey
SOC-12
Mr. Nilsen-
For what it's worth, it sounds like I was pretty much your target audience for the RC setting of TNE. I'd never played Traveller before, and the immense amount of backstory behind the Imperial setting intimidated me. The Reformation Coalition setting kept me in the game, since I could master it fairly easily and didn't feel that I was stepping on someone else's canon whenever I innovated a little. I still remember that corner of space with great fondness whenever I pick up the books.
My point? None, really, except perhaps to let you know that in this one case, your approach worked, and to thank you for the effort you put into this setting to make it a reality.
Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions here, your responses have been very illuminating.
One question of my own- do you remember what was planned for the Guild in the future of the setting? Was it going to remain a perpetual enemy for low-level RC parties, or was the RC going to put them in their places at some point? As I recall, the Guild was holding the crews of two of the original ships hostage- was that intended to be the catalyst for an RC strike against the Guild?
Thanks again.
For what it's worth, it sounds like I was pretty much your target audience for the RC setting of TNE. I'd never played Traveller before, and the immense amount of backstory behind the Imperial setting intimidated me. The Reformation Coalition setting kept me in the game, since I could master it fairly easily and didn't feel that I was stepping on someone else's canon whenever I innovated a little. I still remember that corner of space with great fondness whenever I pick up the books.
My point? None, really, except perhaps to let you know that in this one case, your approach worked, and to thank you for the effort you put into this setting to make it a reality.
Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions here, your responses have been very illuminating.
One question of my own- do you remember what was planned for the Guild in the future of the setting? Was it going to remain a perpetual enemy for low-level RC parties, or was the RC going to put them in their places at some point? As I recall, the Guild was holding the crews of two of the original ships hostage- was that intended to be the catalyst for an RC strike against the Guild?
Thanks again.
Border Reiver
SOC-14 1K
Nice to see him on the boards.
It was quite a flashback for me as Dave has a very distinctive writing style that I always enjoyed in books,articles and editorials.
PS The Goss is british slang for gossip.
It was quite a flashback for me as Dave has a very distinctive writing style that I always enjoyed in books,articles and editorials.
PS The Goss is british slang for gossip.
Dreadnought
SOC-12
Yes, Loren is right.
Bill (Larsen), yours is one of the posts I particularly wanted to reply to (I intend to reply to them all tonight or tomorrow). What is the story about Bari Stafford? I am sorry to hear that one of us is gone.
(I shouldn't be here, I don't have the time, I have to get back to work.)
Dave
Bill (Larsen), yours is one of the posts I particularly wanted to reply to (I intend to reply to them all tonight or tomorrow). What is the story about Bari Stafford? I am sorry to hear that one of us is gone.
(I shouldn't be here, I don't have the time, I have to get back to work.)
Dave
Rupert Boleyn
SOC-12
For waht it's worth, I've never thought of the New Era as dark, and I never thought you guys were trying to make a 'dark' Traveller. Dark is what Twilight: 2000 was, and what Hard Times was.
Mind you, I also liked Hivers & Ithklur, which makes my judgement extremely suspect according to lots of people.
I don't post much here (yet), as I spend most of my time on the TML, but when I read you were posting here, I ran right over and read it all. And let me add my thanks as well. It has certainly enlightened me on many things in TNE and GDW.
(And I understand about the church time; I'm halfway through my term in a leadership role at mine and it does require committment.)
Thanks again and I'm looking forward to reading more of whatever you have time to post.
Mr. Nilsen,
(when you're that big, they call you Mister!)
I would like to take this moment to say that your exposition in this forum has really changed my opinion of TNE. I'm a Grognard, and my heart was in CT and MT, mechanics wise. I liked CT for its open ended, huge empire. I liked MT for its wonderful task system and that whole 'multiple PoV' (no one truth) aspect that you mentioned.
Initially, I thought ill of TNE. I wasn't crazy about the seeming harmonization of rules with other GDW systems away from the old D6 based system, and I didn't like the dark feeling. For me, the darkness was the perceptual result of having a universe of potential torn down; In CT, you could roam a vast universe, in HT/TNE, you were much more constrained. That limiting of horizons seemed dark and unfortunate to me. I guess I'd also played enough T2K, Gamma World, Morrow Project, Aftermath, etc. to have a certain post-apocalyptic overtone myself, and that may have coloured my perception.
If someone *at the time* had explained the motivations you just did (the realities of the business, the goals of trying to get at the new player market while removing the need to 'buy all that went before', etc....), I would have probably taken the product in a very different light. I *loved* Brilliant Lances.
I mostly wanted to say thanks for furthering the game (and I include you in the category with the DGP folks, Marc, Loren, MJD, Hunter, Frank, Joe, the Kieths, and a number of others). Thanks for your efforts, which were obviously Herculean at times. Thanks for your perserverance and sacrifice. Thanks for offering your insight, your imagination and your love of the game up.
I've never 'bad mouthed' an author, nor did I bad mouth the TNE authors. I wasn't fond of the way I percieved the mechanics and the tone and really wasn't partial to some of the art... but now, in a rather revelatory way, I see it very differently and I will just have to consider taking my current playing group through the Rebellion into it (I was debating going the GT no-Rebellion route... we're in 1114/1115 right now). I can now see the Hard Times and TNE not just as a 'slate cleaner', but also as the purifying fire from which something different, interesting, and perhaps greater can be built.
And your exposition here has allowed me to see that, has opened my eyes, and has done so by reference to the real-world history and the underlying aims of the authors as much as to any particulars of what you did or might have been about to do in the game system or game universe itself. I think there might be a bit of a lesson here for Game Designers and companies - sometimes if the fans understood your motivation, and yes, some of us can actually realize you are human and can only do your best, they would be better disposed to some oddly taken changes or 'the next new thing'. In my case, my ignorance of the realities has coloured my view for many years now.
So, from my part, a very big thank you. I miss GDW very much so - both for their RPGs and for some of their related/unrelated boardgame products. There was often a 'hard science' or 'reality' feel to GDW products found lacking in other products. I suppose it is a testament to that value and longevity that keeps me buying old GDW, Kieth Bros, or new Traveller stuff after all these years.
I feel sorry you have been vilified and harrangued. Many times, this is out of ignorance. You have dispelled some of that and perhaps some of those who have befouled your name in forum days past will step forward and recant, seeing things in a new light. I would not speak ill of you before, but now I will speak well of you and will reconsider my view of TNE as a whole.
A new product every 22 days for 22 years... I'm in software design and that schedule impresses me. Especially considering the average quality level of GDW products. That's not something to be anything less than very proud of.
And as to the Ithklur... oddly I had a very (perhaps unique) different sense of them. They reminded me of the Gurkhas that have served the British Crown. They are a deadly people, have a sense of humour their superiors don't always get, serve and exterior master, do what they are ordered but manage to preserve their own values and culture, and may from time to time despise those whom they serve, while still recognizing their dependence. I always imagine them as standing behind a semi-serious Hiver and winking at the subject of his contemplation as if to say "This one is a real windbag and we both know it..."
If I had any one question I'd like to ask, it would be this:
If there were a way, an avenue, for you to tell more of the story of TNE the way you would have seen it, even if that avenue had a low bandwidth and a low output based on the twin desires to produce quality product and to not overload your very busy life, would you consider taking advantage of that avenue to share more of your vision with the fans?
Frankly, now that I have heard the bits of the TNE history that I had not previously seen, I admit to being profoundly interested to see how it would have played out. I would very much like to see it one day hit print, even if it is in the form of articles for QLI's website or one final large omnibus PDF for sale or whatever... I wouldn't even dare to suggest a timeline. Just to know it was slowly coming along and would one day be released would be enough.
Sir, you have my respect and my best wishes for the future. You've given a lot to the hobby and paid a lot for that personally. It is my hope that you can be convinced to once again share your vision with the larger gaming public. But in any event, for your contributions to date, you are owed a great debt by many of us in the fan community.
And one last thought regarding the detractors:
Illegitemati Non Carbonundrum. (My mispelled latin might mean Don't let the B*st*rds get you down! - or it could mean These Diamonds are Fake! but if so, it is a far less meaningful observation.... *grin*)
Thomas Barclay
Ottawa, Ontario
(A web forum visitor who is willing to divulge his real name, when the circumstances dictate it)
(when you're that big, they call you Mister!)
I would like to take this moment to say that your exposition in this forum has really changed my opinion of TNE. I'm a Grognard, and my heart was in CT and MT, mechanics wise. I liked CT for its open ended, huge empire. I liked MT for its wonderful task system and that whole 'multiple PoV' (no one truth) aspect that you mentioned.
Initially, I thought ill of TNE. I wasn't crazy about the seeming harmonization of rules with other GDW systems away from the old D6 based system, and I didn't like the dark feeling. For me, the darkness was the perceptual result of having a universe of potential torn down; In CT, you could roam a vast universe, in HT/TNE, you were much more constrained. That limiting of horizons seemed dark and unfortunate to me. I guess I'd also played enough T2K, Gamma World, Morrow Project, Aftermath, etc. to have a certain post-apocalyptic overtone myself, and that may have coloured my perception.
If someone *at the time* had explained the motivations you just did (the realities of the business, the goals of trying to get at the new player market while removing the need to 'buy all that went before', etc....), I would have probably taken the product in a very different light. I *loved* Brilliant Lances.
I mostly wanted to say thanks for furthering the game (and I include you in the category with the DGP folks, Marc, Loren, MJD, Hunter, Frank, Joe, the Kieths, and a number of others). Thanks for your efforts, which were obviously Herculean at times. Thanks for your perserverance and sacrifice. Thanks for offering your insight, your imagination and your love of the game up.
I've never 'bad mouthed' an author, nor did I bad mouth the TNE authors. I wasn't fond of the way I percieved the mechanics and the tone and really wasn't partial to some of the art... but now, in a rather revelatory way, I see it very differently and I will just have to consider taking my current playing group through the Rebellion into it (I was debating going the GT no-Rebellion route... we're in 1114/1115 right now). I can now see the Hard Times and TNE not just as a 'slate cleaner', but also as the purifying fire from which something different, interesting, and perhaps greater can be built.
And your exposition here has allowed me to see that, has opened my eyes, and has done so by reference to the real-world history and the underlying aims of the authors as much as to any particulars of what you did or might have been about to do in the game system or game universe itself. I think there might be a bit of a lesson here for Game Designers and companies - sometimes if the fans understood your motivation, and yes, some of us can actually realize you are human and can only do your best, they would be better disposed to some oddly taken changes or 'the next new thing'. In my case, my ignorance of the realities has coloured my view for many years now.
So, from my part, a very big thank you. I miss GDW very much so - both for their RPGs and for some of their related/unrelated boardgame products. There was often a 'hard science' or 'reality' feel to GDW products found lacking in other products. I suppose it is a testament to that value and longevity that keeps me buying old GDW, Kieth Bros, or new Traveller stuff after all these years.
I feel sorry you have been vilified and harrangued. Many times, this is out of ignorance. You have dispelled some of that and perhaps some of those who have befouled your name in forum days past will step forward and recant, seeing things in a new light. I would not speak ill of you before, but now I will speak well of you and will reconsider my view of TNE as a whole.
A new product every 22 days for 22 years... I'm in software design and that schedule impresses me. Especially considering the average quality level of GDW products. That's not something to be anything less than very proud of.
And as to the Ithklur... oddly I had a very (perhaps unique) different sense of them. They reminded me of the Gurkhas that have served the British Crown. They are a deadly people, have a sense of humour their superiors don't always get, serve and exterior master, do what they are ordered but manage to preserve their own values and culture, and may from time to time despise those whom they serve, while still recognizing their dependence. I always imagine them as standing behind a semi-serious Hiver and winking at the subject of his contemplation as if to say "This one is a real windbag and we both know it..."
If I had any one question I'd like to ask, it would be this:
If there were a way, an avenue, for you to tell more of the story of TNE the way you would have seen it, even if that avenue had a low bandwidth and a low output based on the twin desires to produce quality product and to not overload your very busy life, would you consider taking advantage of that avenue to share more of your vision with the fans?
Frankly, now that I have heard the bits of the TNE history that I had not previously seen, I admit to being profoundly interested to see how it would have played out. I would very much like to see it one day hit print, even if it is in the form of articles for QLI's website or one final large omnibus PDF for sale or whatever... I wouldn't even dare to suggest a timeline. Just to know it was slowly coming along and would one day be released would be enough.
Sir, you have my respect and my best wishes for the future. You've given a lot to the hobby and paid a lot for that personally. It is my hope that you can be convinced to once again share your vision with the larger gaming public. But in any event, for your contributions to date, you are owed a great debt by many of us in the fan community.
And one last thought regarding the detractors:
Illegitemati Non Carbonundrum. (My mispelled latin might mean Don't let the B*st*rds get you down! - or it could mean These Diamonds are Fake! but if so, it is a far less meaningful observation.... *grin*)
Thomas Barclay
Ottawa, Ontario
(A web forum visitor who is willing to divulge his real name, when the circumstances dictate it)
Well, *I* feel a lot of love in the room right now.
It's easier to destroy something than fix it, I admit. But claiming that GDW went under because the ground shifted under their feet, and PnP was fading, is a bit much: Vampire and D&D (under TSR's worst ever boss) made it, while GDW - with some of the biggest IP rights in the industry, managed to (probably permanently) cripple the lot and alienate a generation of players.
The idea that writing sourcebooks developing each of the nine "safe" areas DN mentions was a drain on the business is kinda surprising. White Wolf made money at that time because they would cookie-cut their systems just like that. Release core rules. Take your nine (or thereabouts, in later systems) clans, tribes, traditions etc. and release sourcebooks for each. Adventures, toy-books and regional descriptions, rinse and repeat.
Endie
It's easier to destroy something than fix it, I admit. But claiming that GDW went under because the ground shifted under their feet, and PnP was fading, is a bit much: Vampire and D&D (under TSR's worst ever boss) made it, while GDW - with some of the biggest IP rights in the industry, managed to (probably permanently) cripple the lot and alienate a generation of players.
The idea that writing sourcebooks developing each of the nine "safe" areas DN mentions was a drain on the business is kinda surprising. White Wolf made money at that time because they would cookie-cut their systems just like that. Release core rules. Take your nine (or thereabouts, in later systems) clans, tribes, traditions etc. and release sourcebooks for each. Adventures, toy-books and regional descriptions, rinse and repeat.
Endie
Dave,
Thanks for opening up your memories to us! What a wonderful amount of information. I loved the TNE setting as much as the CT or MT versions.
I'd like to thank you for the Ithklur section of the Hiver book. If ogres are onions then ithklur are planetary-sized honking big onions with an attitude.
I probably re-read the Ithklur sections in AoR four or five times before I could really grok them enough to play. Oddly enough my hiver (male) character was named Heather...
My question is;
Could you please expound at greater length on the nature and history of the "feral" ithklur? How did their society differ from that of the "tamed" ones, what was their relationship to the hivers, tame ithklur and other alien races and are they really "feral"?
Matt Ashley
Thanks for opening up your memories to us! What a wonderful amount of information. I loved the TNE setting as much as the CT or MT versions.
I'd like to thank you for the Ithklur section of the Hiver book. If ogres are onions then ithklur are planetary-sized honking big onions with an attitude.
I probably re-read the Ithklur sections in AoR four or five times before I could really grok them enough to play. Oddly enough my hiver (male) character was named Heather...
My question is;
Could you please expound at greater length on the nature and history of the "feral" ithklur? How did their society differ from that of the "tamed" ones, what was their relationship to the hivers, tame ithklur and other alien races and are they really "feral"?
Matt Ashley
RandyT0001
SOC-13
Mr. Nilsen,
So cyber-Lucan was:
1) In sole control of the Black Curtain as it's emperor?
2) Co-emperor alongside Virus?
3) A figurehead emperor puppet of Virus?
Did Sabmiqys (the TL 17 world of intelligent robots) play any part in the Black Curtain?
So cyber-Lucan was:
1) In sole control of the Black Curtain as it's emperor?
2) Co-emperor alongside Virus?
3) A figurehead emperor puppet of Virus?
Did Sabmiqys (the TL 17 world of intelligent robots) play any part in the Black Curtain?
Dreadnought
SOC-12
I would like to very sincerely thank everyone who has posted in the past 20-some hours. Your warmth has been very welcoming, and has already made this a very rewarding experience for me.
I'm going to start replying to as many posts as I can until I run out of time. I have to write a briefing for a big presentation tomorrow morning, and that's going to take some time, but obviously this is more fun.
So, here goes.
Dave
I'm going to start replying to as many posts as I can until I run out of time. I have to write a briefing for a big presentation tomorrow morning, and that's going to take some time, but obviously this is more fun.
So, here goes.
Dave
Dreadnought
SOC-12
Hey look, I'm up to Soc-8! What does that mean?
John/jwdh71--
You're very welcome. And I'm always glad to try to rehabilitate the Ithklur. I'm always leery of trying to characterize an entire group, you know, like "The Germans are organized, Texans are cowboys," but when you're designing alien races, you're looking for a kind of shorthand to say, "these are the big issues that make them recognizably different." And yeah, shattered and insane, but still trying really hard to hold out for something meaningful (if they can figure out what it is) is a good starting point for them.
Take care,
Dave
John/jwdh71--
You're very welcome. And I'm always glad to try to rehabilitate the Ithklur. I'm always leery of trying to characterize an entire group, you know, like "The Germans are organized, Texans are cowboys," but when you're designing alien races, you're looking for a kind of shorthand to say, "these are the big issues that make them recognizably different." And yeah, shattered and insane, but still trying really hard to hold out for something meaningful (if they can figure out what it is) is a good starting point for them.
Take care,
Dave
Agreed. Just look at the "Lone Wolf" and "Three Blind Mice" scenarios for 2300, some brilliant work there.
He is also good at the "Bob Shaw" trick: examine a technology and extrapolate what it would lead to. Forex, he wrote articles on things like stutterwarp shadowing, plus the weird visual effects that stutterwarp would cause.
Dreadnought
SOC-12
Zparkz--
I'm really glad you posted. I remember the Gulf of Sidra Turkey Shoot from that year. I'm glad you have good memories of it. I'll bet you were one of the Libyans? The guys playing the Libyans were a blast. I recall that the leader of the US team was pretty hard core and serious about the whole thing, and he started getting a little ticked off, which was sad. I think most of the players were okay with the dichotomy that the US was going to win hands down, and that you guys had nothing to lose, so were having a ball just messing with them. As I recall, the Libyans got a MiG or Sukhoi to pass right over the top of one of the carriers, and got the US to shoot down a few unarmed aircraft. So the US got a huge military victory, and the Libyans got a nice propaganda victory, which the one guy didn't much like. That was too bad, as it took some of the sheer fun out of the game. I don't remember driving you to the hotel, but a lot of that stuff from back then is kind of a blur. Too bad, too, because I loved it. It would be fun to be able to live through some of it again. The friend you mention was probably Dave Schueler, who later wrote a lot of the 1994 Harpoon Naval Review, and where we published the Gulf of Sidra game you played in. Did you ever get a copy of that? I got a great photo of Coral Sea's last homecoming to put on the cover.
Anyway, you mention that you were one of those overwhelmed by the size of Traveller. But I guess you eventually overcame that. What was that process like? Do you think a lot of people felt that way?
I always like to hear from our Norwegian fans, being Norwegian myself. All four of my grandparents spoke Norwegian. I understand that my last name is Swedish or Danish, but supposedly that's because they had a tradition back then that you took the name of the farm you worked on, so the Andersons on the Nilsen farm became the Nilsens.
I hope to hear from you again.
Fram!!
Dave
I'm really glad you posted. I remember the Gulf of Sidra Turkey Shoot from that year. I'm glad you have good memories of it. I'll bet you were one of the Libyans? The guys playing the Libyans were a blast. I recall that the leader of the US team was pretty hard core and serious about the whole thing, and he started getting a little ticked off, which was sad. I think most of the players were okay with the dichotomy that the US was going to win hands down, and that you guys had nothing to lose, so were having a ball just messing with them. As I recall, the Libyans got a MiG or Sukhoi to pass right over the top of one of the carriers, and got the US to shoot down a few unarmed aircraft. So the US got a huge military victory, and the Libyans got a nice propaganda victory, which the one guy didn't much like. That was too bad, as it took some of the sheer fun out of the game. I don't remember driving you to the hotel, but a lot of that stuff from back then is kind of a blur. Too bad, too, because I loved it. It would be fun to be able to live through some of it again. The friend you mention was probably Dave Schueler, who later wrote a lot of the 1994 Harpoon Naval Review, and where we published the Gulf of Sidra game you played in. Did you ever get a copy of that? I got a great photo of Coral Sea's last homecoming to put on the cover.
Anyway, you mention that you were one of those overwhelmed by the size of Traveller. But I guess you eventually overcame that. What was that process like? Do you think a lot of people felt that way?
I always like to hear from our Norwegian fans, being Norwegian myself. All four of my grandparents spoke Norwegian. I understand that my last name is Swedish or Danish, but supposedly that's because they had a tradition back then that you took the name of the farm you worked on, so the Andersons on the Nilsen farm became the Nilsens.
I hope to hear from you again.
Fram!!
Dave
Dreadnought
SOC-12
Biggles--
You're very welcome, and I very much appreciate your reply. I'm glad that emptying out the corners of my brain has been rewarding for folks like you. I like your son's remark. That's certainly the idea we had at GDW, so it's nice to know that in some cases we succeeded. I am very pleased to hear about your wife. It's not always easy to get female significant others and spouses to play, but it sounds like you've had some happy success. Give her a hug from me, and tell her that she is what she is.
Then....
Poke her with the soft cushions!
Dave
P.S., there's a really good Ithklur-style song by Bruce Cockburn, called "World of Wonders," if you get a chance to hear it. He's a Canadian folk-singer. Another good one is "After the Rain." Let me know if you can't find them, maybe I can help.
You're very welcome, and I very much appreciate your reply. I'm glad that emptying out the corners of my brain has been rewarding for folks like you. I like your son's remark. That's certainly the idea we had at GDW, so it's nice to know that in some cases we succeeded. I am very pleased to hear about your wife. It's not always easy to get female significant others and spouses to play, but it sounds like you've had some happy success. Give her a hug from me, and tell her that she is what she is.
Then....
Poke her with the soft cushions!
Dave
P.S., there's a really good Ithklur-style song by Bruce Cockburn, called "World of Wonders," if you get a chance to hear it. He's a Canadian folk-singer. Another good one is "After the Rain." Let me know if you can't find them, maybe I can help.
