Imperial weapons permits

[McPerth]

What's the Law Level of Capitol? Dulinor carried his pistol on his hip (and was allowed to as a noble).

Capital law level is 8, so weapons are forbidden, but:

From MT:RS, page 6:

The Archduke of llelish was one of the Imperium's highest ranking nobles. He was elevated to Archduke by Strephon himself in 1104; he stands as one of five Archdukes within the Imperium. And he brought his ceremonial magnum revolver with him.

(Notes: Bold is mine. Date is as shown in MT consolidated errata, as the book says 0000)

So it seems that it's part of Archdukes' (or Dulinor's knight order, as he's probably member of one of them) ceremonial wear, regardless the law level (consistent with what the article Noblesse Obligue in TD9 says about some nobles being required by custoum to bear weapons in presence of greater nobles)

 

[mike wightman]

Odd that isn't it.

DGP made up canon to make their plot work...

who would have guessed

 

[aramis]

Odd that isn't it.

DGP made up canon to make their plot work...

who would have guessed

Funny, but they've consistently held, and gotten approved by Marc, that Imperial Nobles can carry weapons that the local law doesn't allow normal citizens.

Funny that it's consistent...

 

[Condottiere]

Rank hath it's privileges, though being more ceremonial in nature.

It depends if it can be used to legally perform impromptu executions.

 

[welsh]

It depends if it can be used to legally perform impromptu executions.

I would think that in practice an Imperial Noble wouldn't get his hands dirty with matters such as that; this is why you have servants.

A noble who goes around shooting people is not going to be dealt with by Constable Bloggins on some planet or other; he's going to be un-nobled from on high for behaving dishonorably.

 

[Jame]

I would expect that most Imperial nobles could issue permits to individuals and small groups that permit them to carry light weapons, such as an SMG, ACR or gauss pistol. Maybe a couple of weapons.

Though such individuals would be expected to be fairly circumspect, especially in high-population or high-law levels - such as no fighting at a concert unless the noble is there in person and can step in to say something like "sorry, officer, the dead persons were assassins and these gentle people are my bodyguard."

Just want to see what people's take on this is.

 

[Khan Trav]

I know our world does not apply to Traveller but as an example; Prince Charles visits New York City, he wants to wear his trusty Webley revolver in a hip holster ala open carry.

I realize this is apples to zebras because of factors like the US is not actually a member of the commonwealth but still. Different systems will naturally view this on a planet by planet basis. Like the New York reference, if Prince Charles wanted to open carry in Texas he would probably be bowled over by companies wanting to present him with guns and holsters and boots and hats.

What do big governments like the Imperium do when planetary rulers refuse to cooperate with things they want?

 

[Condottiere]

You mean Excalibur.

 

[aramis]

I know our world does not apply to Traveller but as an example; Prince Charles visits New York City, he wants to wear his trusty Webley revolver in a hip holster ala open carry.

I realize this is apples to zebras because of factors like the US is not actually a member of the commonwealth but still. Different systems will naturally view this on a planet by planet basis. Like the New York reference, if Prince Charles wanted to open carry in Texas he would probably be bowled over by companies wanting to present him with guns and holsters and boots and hats.

What do big governments like the Imperium do when planetary rulers refuse to cooperate with things they want?

The US might allow it, and can't prosecute HRM anyway thanks to royals having diplomatic immunity due to treaties.

So, at best they quietly ignore it, at worst, they seize the weapon and seek to revoke his diplomatic status and declare him persona non grata.

In the Commonwealth, however, as the son of the Monarch, he's actually a government agent. Almost, but not quite, above the law. He tells the PM he intends to remain armed, and the PM makes the needed accomodations, then possibly later politely complains to Her Majesty about "The Heir's odd behavior."

Note that, even in places where swords are outlawed in the Commonwealth, Knights are permitted their swords, as are officers of the Crown, but are expected only to wear them in full formal uniforms. (noting that formal evening or diplomatic dress are civilian Uniforms of the Commonwealth...)

So, if HRM decides to put on combat uniform (he is officially a member of some 32 commonwealth services, and is of penultimate rank in several nations forces, even if he's not on active service in any), several of the available include the standard officer field uniform having a sidearm. (One of which, the specified sidearms, plural, are pistol and kukri...).

So, he's got several loopholes to work with in the commonwealth....

 

[mike wightman]

Funny, but they've consistently held, and gotten approved by Marc, that Imperial Nobles can carry weapons that the local law doesn't allow normal citizens.

Funny that it's consistent...

It's in GURPS Nobles too, so yes it is consistent.

 

[McPerth]

Funny, but they've consistently held, and gotten approved by Marc, that Imperial Nobles can carry weapons that the local law doesn't allow normal citizens.

Funny that it's consistent...

Also consistent with most feudal societies (like medieval knights or Japanese Samurais), where nobles were expected to bear weapons in most formal events, even if the weapons were cerimonial (as a dagger or sword). See that in a HiTech society as Imperial court, a magnum revolver may be seen as so ceremonial as in today's society is a dagger or a sword (while stil being possibly letal in all those cases).

I know our world does not apply to Traveller but as an example; Prince Charles visits New York City, he wants to wear his trusty Webley revolver in a hip holster ala open carry.

I realize this is apples to zebras because of factors like the US is not actually a member of the commonwealth but still. Different systems will naturally view this on a planet by planet basis. Like the New York reference, if Prince Charles wanted to open carry in Texas he would probably be bowled over by companies wanting to present him with guns and holsters and boots and hats.

What do big governments like the Imperium do when planetary rulers refuse to cooperate with things they want?

I guess it will also depend on the event. If it is a formal event were one should be military uniformed (something that's quite usual among royalty), at least to bear a saber or sword would be expected, and a holstered handgun probably too, as in both cases it can be assumed as part of the military officer's uniform.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

The answer is maybe.

OTU: This part of the question is easily answered. Space (within the Imperium) is the law domain of the Empire as are all associated starports (high and low ports inclusive). A ship should not be outside of said areas when within the Imperium. So planetary law does not apply. So free starship, non weapons of mass destruction for all!

Outside of Imperial space local and stellar polity laws apply- ie: if in Aslan space Aslan rules.

Where the law gets interesting... firing a starship weapon from orbit or a port facility at a place on the planet not imperial property.
Does this violate Imperial law? I suspect that you violate Imperial safety regulations for a port by doing so but what about the planet? A from space outside a port.
Ortillery restricted?

Trying to answer from an Imperial Noble assigned to the world...

Firing from orbit at a World Target (non-Imperial), depends, is it a declared war, trade war, minor interplanetary scuffle? Or is it terrorism, genocide, or other purely political motive.

Firing from a port? If local port their problem, from the Imperial Starport your problem, and the Marine or Navy Lt I give the mission to being you back in chains to I should say. You do not, repeat do not use the Imperial Port as a base for your warmongering. Just no.

And even if it is local on local as the arbitrator of interplanetary affairs I still might stick my nose into it and offer Imperial assistance to hunt down and bring to justice the malefactors.

I mean unless I maybe hired them to maybe you know blow up this place or person or thing because "The Needs of The Imperium" because we all know no noble has ever abused that prerogative, right? :CoW:

 

[pendragonman]

Lord Glesner may allow a ship to fire from the high port. However, if this noble has allowed a sanctioned orbital strike on non Imperial property, I would have the ship depart the port.

This would be a message from me to the client planetary system.

If fire comes from a ship in port then it is either unsanctioned or covert action by Imperial Intelligence Services. In either case I have to take very overt action to enforce order on the port, and adjudicating proper recompense for destroyed property; amount of reimbursement is, of course, at my discretion.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

The words, sir, read the words.

Lord Glesner may allow a ship to fire from the high port. However, if this noble has allowed a sanctioned orbital strike on non Imperial property, I would have the ship depart the port.

This would be a message from me to the client planetary system.

If fire comes from a ship in port then it is either unsanctioned or covert action by Imperial Intelligence Services. In either case I have to take very overt action to enforce order on the port, and adjudicating proper recompense for destroyed property; amount of reimbursement is, of course, at my discretion.

I only allow folks to shoot from the high port when they have Warrants bigger than mine, or Starships. Like those big ones with the "INS" prefix and the Imperial Starburst on them.

Otherwise, I am not in the habit of allowing ortillery strikes from the Imperial Port. Makes things touchy with the Natives. Also why my people are mostly discrete about our privilege to bear arms in contravention of the local Law Level. I only bring out the obvious toys to make a hard point about the direction power flows in the Imperium to the newbs or foolish, maybe the hardheaded.

Just saying. I don't want to have to hang any one because it got around I was lax and let people just lob crap at the worlds His Imperial Majesty has ordered me to watch over. Be bad form, and they twich so. *shudders* Messed with my enjoyment of cartoons for weeks. :coffeesip:

 

[pendragonman]

I only allow folks to shoot from the high port when they have Warrants bigger than mine, or Starships. Like those big ones with the "INS" prefix and the Imperial Starburst on them.

Otherwise, I am not in the habit of allowing ortillery strikes from the Imperial Port. Makes things touchy with the Natives. Also why my people are mostly discrete about our privilege to bear arms in contravention of the local Law Level. I only bring out the obvious toys to make a hard point about the direction power flows in the Imperium to the newbs or foolish, maybe the hardheaded.

Just saying. I don't want to have to hang any one because it got around I was lax and let people just lob crap at the worlds His Imperial Majesty has ordered me to watch over. Be bad form, and they twich so. *shudders* Messed with my enjoyment of cartoons for weeks. :coffeesip:

See, this is where we see that you have never served with the fleet. The Imperial Navy knows better than to fire from the port. At the port, sure, never from the port.

The Navy is more likely to launch Marines at a target from the port. Been sent on a few of these missions myself prior to elevation.

If a Duke or better wants to do something like that in my neighborhood, well, let's make a deal. I will have to clean it up, so they are gonna have to make it worth my while.:devil:

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Ah, yes, the old glorious Fleet.

See, this is where we see that you have never served with the fleet. The Imperial Navy knows better than to fire from the port. At the port, sure, never from the port.

The Navy is more likely to launch Marines at a target from the port. Been sent on a few of these missions myself prior to elevation.

If a Duke or better wants to do something like that in my neighborhood, well, let's make a deal. I will have to clean it up, so they are gonna have to make it worth my while.:devil:

True, I am one them bean counters everyone hates. Pure-dee staff weenie, REMF here, 100% pogey bait. :coffeesip:

On, the other hand I can hobnob with the right folks at HQ and suddenly someone has patrol duty at a Class D keeping the riff-raff from skimming the local GG.

Never underestimate the power of the well placed word.

Oh and returning to the OP topic, my ATU has such things but even then it is folks like interstellar coppers, skip tracers and such, quasi-law enforcement for the most part and depends on whether it is a Client State in which case they suck it up and deal or a Member State who may be able to arrest and prosecute you for it. Imperial Nobles, military and other agents are held exempt from local law under all sorts of legal loopholes when straight up treaties aren't in force. Scouts sometimes get a pass too. Though in truth most armed Scouts are outside the borders of the Imperium so they don't exactly count.

 

[kilemall]

Never underestimate the power of the well placed word.

Admin/Liaison trumps Leader/Tactics/Fleet-Ship Tactics?

 

[pendragonman]

Admin/Liaison trumps Leader/Tactics/Fleet-Ship Tactics?

Depends on the battlefield. In the boardroom/office/paperwork, yes. In a place where actual sophonts are physically harmed, no.

 

[McPerth]

Depends on the battlefield. In the boardroom/office/paperwork, yes. In a place where actual sophonts are physically harmed, no.

Unless the admins fail and the supply chain breaks...

 

[pendragonman]

Unless the admins fail and the supply chain breaks...

A good field commander---one with Leadership, and/or some form of Tactics skill---oversees their logistics train as good commanders know it is the logistics train that makes the difference in otherwise nearly equal battles. Therefore a failure of the admin in charge of logistics is a failure of the Commander, and thus a failure of Leadership.