Interstellar Power Projection: Questions

[Timerover51]

It depends on your opposition.

Keeping the initiative, while continuously pressurizing the enemy, could be enough to keep them off balance, and make them withdraw from contact; instead of waiting for supplies to catch up.

And, you can always capture theirs.

Like Rommel in North Africa until he got to El Alamein and discovered that it did not work any more. If that is how you are basing a campaign, prepare to loose.

 

[Condottiere]

The British, having established the initial set of rules of the game with the Italians, reset them.

They went for an attritional Great War battle, and picked an area where they couldn't be outflanked.

Any time the English do that, check what they have for long range weapons.

 

[Enoki]

It depends on your opposition.

Keeping the initiative, while continuously pressurizing the enemy, could be enough to keep them off balance, and make them withdraw from contact; instead of waiting for supplies to catch up.

And, you can always capture theirs.

The Germans tried that, they were an army of scavengers. It didn't work out well in the end, better to bring your own if you can.

 

[Condottiere]

And then you find they've overrun your industrial zones.

Not everyone is blessed with a moat, whether the English Channel, or the North Atlantic (and Pacific).

 

[Enoki]

The Japanese Army expected their troops to live off of the land, and never really budgeted for logistics. It did not go well for them. The Japanese referred to Guadalcanal as Starvation Island, for good reason. The commander of the Japanese 15th Army, prior to the attack on Imphal in 1944, had his troops learning to eat grass, and viewed all of his supply pack animals, including elephants, as meat on the hoof. Of course, once eaten, they were not very good for carrying supplies.

I hesitate to even call the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters "amateurs", as I would be insulting true amateurs, who do know something about what they are doing.

The contrast was readily and obviously apparent in the Aleutians on Kiska Island where the IJA and IJN both set up bases. The soldiers were half-starved and had to try to live off the land as best they could. The IJN's sailors were supplied with canned food, coal stoves, and other amenities that made their lives reasonably comfortable.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Dragoner]

For power projection I think about the UK vs Germany building fleets pre-ww1, where battleships for dominance around the continent, with cruisers for global dominance, and how they had to balance both.

 

[Condottiere]

The Hochseeflotte being rather unbalanced, as the British questioned the need for Germany to have so many short legged battleships stationed in the North Sea.

The East Asia Squadron knew they were likely dead meat, unless they evaded the Japanese and British naval forces.

 

[mike wightman]

British Empire power projection required a string of naval basses to provide coal and stores.

A US Carrier battlegroup requires bases, air transport and supply ships.

 

[Condottiere]

The Japanese captured Singapore, and took over the naval infrastructure.

Probably would have done the same in Hawaii, if they decided to go for broke.

 

[mike wightman]

We are talking about power projection, not war.

 

[Spinward Flow]

We are talking about power projection, not war.

To be fair ... war is "power projection" dialed up to 11.

 

[Condottiere]

In modern terms, aircraft are the tool for power projection, followed by airborne and amphibious forces.

The nuclear powered aircraft carrier being a mobile base, limited by supply constraints of it's crew and payload.

 

[mike wightman]

No. The carrier battle group is.

Power projection (or force projection or strength projection) in international relations is the capacity of a state to deploy and sustain forces outside its territory. The ability of a state to project its power into an area may serve as an effective diplomatic lever, influencing the decision-making processes and acting as a potential deterrent on other states' behavior.

Wikipedia.
So power projection is used during peacetime, not war.

 

[Condottiere]

Power projection means I can touch you, which is why boomers fall under strategic power projection.

Even a nuclear powered aircraft carrier is somewhat pointless (and useless) without an operating air group onboard.

And the reason that you need aircraft and assault carriers, is because the current range (and capacity) of aircraft is limited - the Americans would certainly like an Osprey successor that has enough range to reach most places in the world, and staged out of the continental United States.

You may be thinking of (physical) presence.

 

[mike wightman]

No, I am using the definition of power projection.

Last time I looked a carrier battlegroup sails with aircraft on board. And requires a huge logistic tail to allow its deployment.

Being capable of jumping a battle fleet into a nearby system is not power projection. Showing you can keep that fleet supplied so it can lay waste to your system is.

 

[Timerover51]

The combat endurance of an aircraft carrier is dictated by how much jet fuel and ordnance is carried. The type of ordnance is also a factor. Typically you are looking at resupplying jet fuel and ordnance every 5 to 7 days of extensive operations. Aircraft carriers also have one of the highest divorce rates of any unit in the military, equaled only by the ballistic missile subs. Then there is the fact that at any given time, 10% of your female personnel are going to be pregnant, which does complicate matters, especially if complications develop.

Then there are the escorting ships, which are not nuclear-powered and do require fuel as well. The logistic tail of a carrier group is quite extensive, as pointed out by Mike.

 

[Condottiere]

Power projection is the capability and willingness to exert force on an area, and until the event of aircraft and missiles, usually only adjacently.

There's a reason it's called gunboat diplomacy, where superior technology can suppress the objective's capability to retaliate or defend itself.

Also, cruising up their main riverine lines of communications.

In Traveller terms, how far your starwarships can roam

 

[TamsinP]

Of course, almost everyone has gravitated to the hard (or military) type of power projection, forgetting that soft (economic/non-military) power projection also exists. An example of soft/economic power projection from our own times is China's "Belt and Road Initiative".

 

[Spinward Flow]

Of course, almost everyone has gravitated to the hard (or military) type of power projection, forgetting that soft (economic/non-military) power projection also exists. An example of soft/economic power projection from our own times is China's "Belt and Road Initiative".

Well ... I did TRY to address that point ...