Is it me or has this site died

[GypsyComet]

There's "dead" (as in quiet) and then there's "dead" (as in "pinin' for the fjords").

CotI is more the first at the moment. The new kid (Mongoose) is getting a lot of attention at the moment, while the rest of Traveller's online mob seems to be suffering from a bout of Summer. I look at several other Traveller groups across the editions and see similar slowing. I look at Yahoo Groups for other games entirely and I see similar slowing. I look at hobby sites all over and see similar slowing. It's just Summer. It's not the first time. A Summer Lull used to be expected on the Net.

So what do we "do about it"?

Go play a game. That's what this hobby is supposed to be about.

The resulting enthusiasm will take care of the rest...

 

[Supplement Four]

I haven't been to the other sites. I was on the TML a bazillion years ago, but I think this is the most interesting Traveler site on the net.

Is the front page a bit "bare"? Yup. Is that irksome? Sure, somewhat.

But the core of the COMMUNITY is here, alive and kicking. And I think it's a pretty rich one.

Yup.

What he said.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Ya know, I'm gonna take issue with this.

Unless you're talking about a specific rules question, most everything here is "pure traveller".

There's no "new" or "old". We don't have anyone, really, that's pushing out the timeline (though we have 1248).

But that doesn't mean there isn't a crapload (sorry, I don't know the crapload : DTon ratios) stuff to be explored and discussed to handle the previous 1200 years.

Some are era specific (if you're talking about Rebellion effects, Virus effects, galactic politics in the Big Picture), but most of Traveler is about the small story. Or rather, the small story writ large.

If you're hunting down a derelict space craft in a remote system, does it really matter what era you're in? what rule set you use? Hardly.

And while folks at times may be "trapped" by Canon, many are not, and much of what's talked about is "canon free".

I haven't been to the other sites. I was on the TML a bazillion years ago, but I think this is the most interesting Traveler site on the net.

Is the front page a bit "bare"? Yup. Is that irksome? Sure, somewhat.

But the core of the COMMUNITY is here, alive and kicking. And I think it's a pretty rich one.

For me, and this explains why I don't get involved on this forum like I do on the SFB forum, is I often find myself stifled by canon. When I try to write for Traveller I'm always pulled back by the "realities" of the Traveller universe. I think it's a rich background with which, in a gaming sense, to create any environment one wishes, but it's confining in terms of pure unlimited creativity by virtue of the fact that Traveller has now gelled into a cohesive unit unto itself.

Traveller was first publisehd like a GURPS-type of game; i.e. it was just a set of rules you the players used to apply to whatever sci-fi setting you wanted. Planet of the Apes? No problem. 2001 Space Odyssey? You bet. Star Wars? All the way... and so on.

But now that Traveller is more defined in terms of its own reality it's both nebulous and concrete all at once. You could, if so chose to, create Mount Olympus and all of the Greek pantheon. But getting your characters there with the existing rules, and creating stats for NPCs like Zeus, Athena, Hermes and so forth, becomes bothersome, because "gods" aren't defined in Traveller.

If you wanted to create a TARDIS it'd be very hard using MT or FFS rules (or so I recall). It's not that you couldn't fabricate something on your own, but making it work within Traveller as a canon proposal is difficult. What does a TARDIS run on? How do you define its defenses, and how much damage can that time-machine-cum-policebox take? What kind of stats does a Timelord have? How do you tweak his stats to refelct his Time-lordism?

I could come up with a number of other examples, but I think you get my point. There's a kind of confining open-endedness to Traveller that I think steers some people away from it. I actually love this forum, but I rarely visit it because I'm having a hard time creating stuff for it.

There's a lot of weapons' talk, some talk about starships, but not so much on new species (sentient and otherwise). I happen to like discussing future weapons' tech and so forth. But it's also fun to read about black holes or white holes from people who are enthusiasts of the game and have that knowledge.

Again, not to repeat myself too many times, but I think it's largely the emphasis of the game itself; explore with guns and shoot stuff, and do so "realistically". That's not what Marc Miller envisioned, but I think that's kind of what Traveller's evolved into in a very loose way.

But now I'm just rambling, and should probably go to bed

 

[bikewrench]

I don't post very much here but I've definitely found a ton of useful info when I needed it.
The level of response show that it isn't, in fact dead, yet.:devil:

 

[rust]

There's no "new" or "old". We don't have anyone, really, that's pushing out the timeline (though we have 1248).

I think you misunderstood me, or my English was insufficient.

What I wrote was:
" ... has far more discussions about old than about new Traveller ideas..."

I did not mean the timeline, I did mean the content of the discussions.

Much of what is discussed on this board has already been discussed 25, 20,
15, 10 and 5 years ago. Now, this is completely normal, because Traveller
is about 30 years old, and many of the topics have to come back over and
over again whenever new people ask the old (for them: new) questions and
answer them with the old (for them: new) ideas because they were not
there to witness the earlier discussions.

For me, almost all discussions about the OTU and its "canon" have a strong
feeling of "been there, seen that - several times", and it is not that often
that there is a genuinely new idea to be found on this field.
This is of course not a problem of the people writing on this board, it simply
is caused by the fact that Traveller meanwhile is somewhat aged, and - at
least from my point of view - mostly "outdiscussed", at least when it comes
to OTU and "canon".

 

[Zparkz]

What I think is the major problem with old topics, new discussions are that when it comes to the game cnion and setting, very little new has been added since TNE. Sure we had T4 with its Mileu 0, but that version has some really probelmatic canon issues in some of the books.

Most material I have read are 1105 or there around and Spinward Marches. Even for its size, there is a limit to how much you can put into that sector of modules, races and so on before you run into conflicts.

And writing new material in a given period isn't easy unless you got most of the books of the past, which is pretty hard to come by. At least if you are going to write official material. Far as I have seen only MJD has really brought the Traveller story forward with his TNE 1248. However, I am not too optimistic that the story will continue any time soon now that MJD is busy writing for Moongoose.

Really new setting discussions will only happen if
1) Fans write them and publish them on the net to share with other fans. Traveller Land Grab is one of those nice efforts. But we need fun nuggets like exotic locations, amber zones and so on.

2) Someone (Moongoose; Avenger etc) starts to make a campaign background that there is possible to play in.

 

[whartung]

When I try to write for Traveller I'm always pulled back by the "realities" of the Traveller universe. I think it's a rich background with which, in a gaming sense, to create any environment one wishes, but it's confining in terms of pure unlimited creativity by virtue of the fact that Traveller has now gelled into a cohesive unit unto itself.

Certainly there's a lot of truth here. Arguably, it's a major draw for folks that come here. But, the only thing I can see that's really stifling is perhaps the technology, but even then I'm not so sure.

If you don't go "munchkin", any new "discovery" is useful for everyone. Undiscovered alien technology is always welcome. Just be careful putting the 20g drive and high powered wormhole disintigrator weapons on the players starship. DO put it on, just be careful with it, like a +10 Sword Of Orc Slaying or something in D&D. That's the only real limit to technology, IMHO.

Now, if you only want to write large, galaxy sweeping story arcs, tightly integrated and involving the largest factions in the Imperium, then, yea, Canon can be constraining.

But, like I said, I think that Traveller is the small story writ large. And there's just an infinite variety of times, places, and circumstance players can be involved with.

Canon is just a backdrop, and frankly a loose backdrop, upon which to base your story.

How many "IMTU" stories do we have? Everyones TU is different.

Finally, of course, there's TNE which specifically addressed this problem by making the obliteration of Canon, well, Canon itself. You don't have to use the TNE rule set to play in the post collapse area.

And you can even have a post collapse area within the Imperium, before the Rebellion if you like. We have a single small planet here and we have every drama man has known playing out right here, right now. Greed, love, war, sacrifice, corruption, heroism, enlightenment, discovery, exploration, fusion bombs, bows and arrows, new knowledge, lost knowledge, etc. And that's just on this rock. Right now. Today! You're saying you can't find a spot in the Imperium upon which to paint your story?

The technology is, mostly, fixed in OTU, but that shouldn't stop you from adding your own. Look at TNE's FF&S. It had all sorts of tech that's not canon (powerplant and drives, mostly), yet that's an "official" supplement. Change your Imperium forever when the Klaatu of Epsilon Erandi V discover Stutterwarp and start, slowly, using the drive in commerce or warfare. Boy, that'll stir the pot in YTU.

Those are all great thought experiments and topics for expansion. How would it be used? Would it dominate space? Would the Klaatu become the Puppeteers of the modern day? Would the Zhodani try and steal and control the technology? Would the Imperium bribe their loyalty, or would some crazy navy admiral think it's too game changing and nuke them out of existence before they take the entire Imperium and galaxy with them. Become a great atrocity that school children are warned about in future generations, but, quietly, in the back rooms of power, They agree it had to be done. Shame the technology was lost. However, it is rumored there are a couple of ships left...

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Some thoughts.....

...
The technology is, mostly, fixed in OTU, but that shouldn't stop you from adding your own. Look at TNE's FF&S. It had all sorts of tech that's not canon (powerplant and drives, mostly), yet that's an "official" supplement. Change your Imperium forever when the Klaatu of Epsilon Erandi V discover Stutterwarp and start, slowly, using the drive in commerce or warfare. Boy, that'll stir the pot in YTU.

Those are all great thought experiments and topics for expansion. How would it be used? Would it dominate space? Would the Klaatu become the Puppeteers of the modern day? Would the Zhodani try and steal and control the technology? Would the Imperium bribe their loyalty, or would some crazy navy admiral think it's too game changing and nuke them out of existence before they take the entire Imperium and galaxy with them. Become a great atrocity that school children are warned about in future generations, but, quietly, in the back rooms of power, They agree it had to be done. Shame the technology was lost. However, it is rumored there are a couple of ships left...

Dear Gentlebeing, the Zhodane, do not steal, or if they do the beloved Guardians of Our Morality will help them see the insanity of their actions, and I am afraid sir that once again you are listening to rumors, all the Stutterwarp ship's of the Klaatu were destroyed and are no more...please, step away from that door sir, or the Marine will be forced to shoot you, nothing to see here, move along...

 

[Blue Ghost]

whartung;

Yeah, I often wonder what kind of sci-fi fans have come across Traveller, and have either accepted or rejected it because of what it's supposed to be verse what it's become.

When I first picked it up many-many years back it had a kind of generic and universal appeal appeal. I liked exploring the Imperium and areas surrounding it via the publications, but I also found myself a bit at odds with it. Largely because I was puzzled on how I would codify and incorporate ... say ... "warp drive" from Star Trek, when the rules clearly stated that a jump, regardless of distance, took two weeks.

The obvious solution is to discard the jump-rules, and formulate my own, but then if I started doing that how much more of the rules do I trash or tweak? Unconciously (or semi-conciously) I was kind of afraid of going down a slippery slope. Once you start to use hand-waveum it's tempting to keep doing it.

Everytime I conjur a real exotic location, something that isn't defined within the scope of the official Traveller canon, and begin to write about it with the intent to see it published via Hunter, I find myself getting stuck. As an example I had a concept where a group of characters would come across either a Dyson sphere or a ring world. Now, the players aren't going to inherit either of these things, and they are "munchkiny" in a NPC/environment sort of way, but none of that really mattered to me. Where I got stuck was wondering where such a place would be in the Imperium, if it existed at all. And if it was in the Imperium, then how come we never heard of it, or how come the Imperium isn't more "geo-politically" more powerful (than it already is) compared to it's neighbors?

The obvious solution was to put this place outside the Imperium, but then I really had to think about how and why nobody had discovered this place before, particularly if it's just a jump or two away from civilized space. And so on, and so on, and so on.

If it was the old FASA Star Trek game, then it's easily explainable. But Traveller's Imperium, at least to my perspective, seemed to be pretty well explored, populated, and otherwise mapped out and civilized. If I introduce a ring world or a Dyson sphere to the Imperium, then how does that shake things up for the Zhodane, Vargr extents (the wild bunch that they are ), and all the rest. Do the Solomani have one somewhere? And so forth. I'll write the opening scenes about a Type-S arriving in a new system, and coming into contact with a ringworld, but then once the characters land and head for the ship's locker I begin to get stuck. It's like the realities of Traveller canon pull me away from this really cool and exotic place I've set the characters in.

Anyway, I'm just rambling now. But my point is that I wonder if other potential Travellers don't have similar qualms about the game system. "What do you mean a TIE fighter can't have 6g accleration?! How are they going to catch up to that hot-rod tramp freighter?!" Stuff like that.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Warning from the Imperial Surgeon-General.

It should be noted the the IS-G's Office of Forbidden and Exotic Technologies has multiple studies showing that Handwavium and Unobtainium are in fact Class I Substance and are subject to certain restrictions.

Of course these things are addictive and why I use it sparingly....or try. :devil:

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

Dear Gentlebeing, the Zhodane, do not steal, or if they do the beloved Guardians of Our Morality will help them see the insanity of their actions, and I am afraid sir that once again you are listening to rumors, all the Stutterwarp ship's of the Klaatu were destroyed and are no more...please, step away from that door sir, or the Marine will be forced to shoot you, nothing to see here, move along...

Oh, heck. It's easy to stop the Klaatu anyway. Just tell them "barada nikto" and they all freeze in their tracks.

Works every time.

 

[Icosahedron]

whartung;

Yeah, I often wonder what kind of sci-fi fans have come across Traveller, and have either accepted or rejected it because of what it's supposed to be verse what it's become.

When I first picked it up many-many years back it had a kind of generic and universal appeal appeal. I liked exploring the Imperium and areas surrounding it via the publications, but I also found myself a bit at odds with it.

This is how I went the ATU route. I created my own universe during the early 'generic' days of Traveller, but found that as more supplements came out I could only use the generic ones. For example, 76 Patrons was great, but The Spinward Marches didn't really gel with what I'd already created so I left it on the shelf. As time went by, the supplements seemed to become more connected with the OTU and less generic. My purchases correspondingly declined. There is still a lot of Traveller material I don't have, because after the LBBs, when they started producing costly integrated volumes that seemed to be 25% generic material and 75% OTU background, and even the 25% didn't interconvert well with what had gone before, I stopped buying altogether; I could no longer justify the expense. Consequently, I never got involved with MT or TNE. I picked up a few of the books years later in the rummage boxes of shows, but by that time they would only marginally affect my CT-inspired 'Houserules of 1000 Sources'.

IMHO 'conversion/incompatibility problems' have dogged Traveller from the beginning - right from when you couldn't create Book 2 ships from Book 5 rules. I made the choice to go with the Book 5 rules cos they suited my gearheadiness, but that meant redesigning all the basic ships and ignoring the official deckplan supplements that described the Book 2 ships - especially those with Tardis deckplans - more incompatibility.

Sometimes I wonder how and why I stuck with Traveller at all. But I'm rambling way off topic now so I'll shut up.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

That sir...

Oh, heck. It's easy to stop the Klaatu anyway. Just tell them "barada nikto" and they all freeze in their tracks.

Works every time.

Was dam funny! So now I am safe once again from Street Cows. *bows* Almost as good as knowing the [VR] Zombie Protocols..."Harsh but necessary now, strip crew and check for bites, weapons to the deck but safeties off...." Gotta be safe man, you just don't know what might be around a corner.

Oh, I heard you have to get it right though otherwise they blow up your puny low tech balkanized world....hey wait, that sounds like....*looks around* earth.

 

[Blue Ghost]

This is how I went the ATU route. I created my own universe during the early 'generic' days of Traveller, but found that as more supplements came out I could only use the generic ones. For example, 76 Patrons was great, but The Spinward Marches didn't really gel with what I'd already created so I left it on the shelf. As time went by, the supplements seemed to become more connected with the OTU and less generic. My purchases correspondingly declined. There is still a lot of Traveller material I don't have, because after the LBBs, when they started producing costly integrated volumes that seemed to be 25% generic material and 75% OTU background, and even the 25% didn't interconvert well with what had gone before, I stopped buying altogether; I could no longer justify the expense. Consequently, I never got involved with MT or TNE. I picked up a few of the books years later in the rummage boxes of shows, but by that time they would only marginally affect my CT-inspired 'Houserules of 1000 Sources'.

IMHO 'conversion/incompatibility problems' have dogged Traveller from the beginning - right from when you couldn't create Book 2 ships from Book 5 rules. I made the choice to go with the Book 5 rules cos they suited my gearheadiness, but that meant redesigning all the basic ships and ignoring the official deckplan supplements that described the Book 2 ships - especially those with Tardis deckplans - more incompatibility.

Sometimes I wonder how and why I stuck with Traveller at all. But I'm rambling way off topic now so I'll shut up.

That was smart

When our group first tried out the Starter Traveller set I bought it was a whole new world (err... galaxy). It was loosely defined, and, upon reflection, I think was attractive because of that. Building a starship, hanging out in the hotel, battleing animals using Snapshot and the like, was all a blast

I bought T20 in the hopes of creating stuff for the new system, but, like the old D&D ruleset, I had some issues with the whole level concept. And then "feats" were added. And suddenly a Type-T patrol cruiser looked a little different from what I recall. And this falls under the compatability issue. If people like that, then that's cool. Myself, ultimately, I still like the 2D 7+ to hit throw.

Ah well. I'm going to take a few more cracks at writing something. We'll see.

 

[rust]

There is still a lot of Traveller material I don't have, because after the LBBs, when they started producing costly integrated volumes that seemed to be 25% generic material and 75% OTU background, and even the 25% didn't interconvert well with what had gone before, I stopped buying altogether; I could no longer justify the expense.

While I continued buying much of the material, I only used it to mine it for
interesting ideas, and never really connected it to my setting.

 

[Vargas]

Sometimes I wonder how and why I stuck with Traveller at all.

Sounds to me you took what you needed and left the rest, nothing wrong in that.

 

[whartung]

I can appreciate that it would be odd that a Dyson sphere suddenly showing up in the middle of "known space" can be difficult to explain, and in that sense, yea the Imperium can be stifling simply because as big as it is, it's seems to be "well explored".

The dark side of being able to construct a galaxy with but a few die rolls is that, well, people construct galaxies with but a few die rolls.

That doesn't mean that it can't be the target of a misjump or something. "The lights dimmed, the screen went dark and there was smoke from the console. The speaker crackled and a scottish voice belowed "Aye, that did it, I told you the Franzenstance was out of kilter, now we've misjumped. We're lucky to be alive you know, and who knows how long..". I shut off the speaker as the systems restarted and lights came up. When I looked up at the main display, I saw it..."

There's this impression that some kind of large adventure around a rogue Dyson sphere has no value to the community because you can't find someplace to put in the Canon. So, don't put it in Canon. Let the players and referee's put it in their own Canon, because that's the only one that's really important.

Why doesn't this phenomenon plague D&D with their Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance settings? I don't know modern D&D, but do they suffer from this problem of being consistent with the Canon of the published worlds? I can't see why not if the event is "big enough". "How come we didn't hear about this great war between the two superpowers of the east?" "oh, um, that was ancient times, it's been simmering a long while, and you've accidently stumbled upon this relic of the past. So, you're standing at the door, what now?"

If the Powers that Control Canon want it in Canon, they can retcon it back, somehow.

Why is the Imperium the only Traveller setting? The rulesets give a technology base. How guns work, how ships work, how trade works. After that, the world/galaxy is what it is. Whether it's in the Imperium, the post-Virus New Era, or Frank's Galaxy 2.0, now with orbital periods for all star systems!

If you want to write large epics, go ahead. If not, there are a bazillion locales and times that you can have a new animal, a minor race, an amber zone, etc. etc.

 

[far-trader]

...Why doesn't this phenomenon plague D&D with their Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance settings?

Well I seem to recall it affecting our games to some degree (at least a couple times) depending on the knowledge of the canon and the involvement of the PCs.

Why is the Imperium the only Traveller setting?

It isn't. But that's what we talk about when we talk OTU. And even in the OTU there's a lot of room for stuff outside the lines of canon. The whole YTU/MTU is a different beast entirely where canon can be hanged at your every whim.[/quote]

 

[Andrew Boulton]

There's a Dyson sphere in Nooq Sector.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Whartung; like Uncle Bob, you're the voice of reason. I always pictured my stuff being up for publication someday via official channels, so I refrained from "Heavy Metal" or really bizzare settings... however much I'd like to place a set of conventional characters in those settings. That's what great stories are all about.

As another example; I tried incorporating the vehicle in this image in one of those "musjump"/"parallel universe" adventures; http://www.waynesbooks.com/images/graphics/gw10.jpg

I had hopes that my group would try to take on this thing in a sort of Joint Operations type of exercise. But the adventure didn't go as planned, and it was a combination of me not being able to make the CT rules work for such a beast in that image, and the players kind of whimping out.

I'm going to write my operatic adventures, and see what comes of them. I've teased a lot of people on this BBS with promises of fiction, and I have delivered (believe it or not), but I've kept the fiction circulating among a small group of friends for feedback. In short, I'm not satisfied with it, and hope to write something really competent that I won't be ashamed to post and/or publish.

Anyway, thanks again for the reminder

Off I go.

More later... work beckons.