It's Not Canon!

[robject]

Don's Fundamental Traveller Moral: Don't throw rocks at other Traveller settings. We're all in the same tent, even if we imagine we're not.

Rob's Corollary: Don't use canon specifically to trash a setting.

Now moving on. Some things Marc has repeatedly said are NOT canon. Now brainstorm and vote on what might NOT be canon for Traveller. By voting, we take the temperature of the grognards. This is a useful exercise.

Since this is a poll, I am forced to stop at about 20 items. That's not a bad length. And perhaps it requires us to be principled.

 

[mike wightman]

Before even answering the poll I find myself asking once again - do you mean the Traveller rules or the Traveller OTU setting? With the Traveller rules I have created many settings, ripped off many settings and adapted the published setting versions to my own ends.

The OTU has had many iterations due to rule changes, setting changes etc.

Canon for the OTU is what MWM says.

Canon for MTU is what I say it is.

 

[atpollard]

"Traveller" the rules, or "Traveller" the setting? :CoW: :rofl::rofl::rofl: :devil:

 

[atpollard]

I disagree with all of the choices offered with one possible exception ...


"Light sabers and Ansibles don't exist." is true for the OTU setting (the various Imperiums and beyond) however neither "Light sabers" nor "Ansibles" (instantaneous FTL Communication) are forbidden by some versions of the rules and the guidelines on building a "Laser Pistol" in an early edition of the JTAS suggests that "Light Sabres" are encouraged if you want one in your game.

 

[Timerover51]

As I pay little to no attention with respect to Aslan artwork, I have no opinion on that. Likewise, as I have no idea as to what the Primordials/Sparklers are, I have no opinion on those either. The only material that I view as canon is that what was initially put out by GDW prior to terminating business, or that put out by Marc since. I do not regard anything by Mongoose or Steve Jackson Games under the GURPS rules as canon, nor anything for the Cepheus Engine. The Cepheus Engine material can be readily adapted to Traveller, but will not be canon.

I definitely like the rule regarding spacecraft under 100 dTons.

 

[Adam Dray]

I cannot answer the poll because it won't let me submit without any boxes checked.

 

[mike wightman]

Note the six major races is a limitation for charted space only - out in the wider galaxy there are races that would make the six major races look like semi evolved prokaryotic organisms... Abyssals, Essaray, Core Sophonts, Denizens...

 

[whulorigan]

Note the six major races is a limitation for charted space only - out in the wider galaxy there are races that would make the six major races look like semi evolved prokaryotic organisms... Abyssals, Essaray, Core Sophonts, Denizens...

But are they "Major" in the sense of having independently developed Jump Drive (after the Vilani definition/prejudice for the term), which is I believe the thought behind having no more than the standard six?

 

[coliver988]

I disagree with all of the choices offered with one possible exception ...


"Light sabers and Ansibles don't exist." is true for the OTU setting (the various Imperiums and beyond) however neither "Light sabers" nor "Ansibles" (instantaneous FTL Communication) are forbidden by some versions of the rules and the guidelines on building a "Laser Pistol" in an early edition of the JTAS suggests that "Light Sabres" are encouraged if you want one in your game.

Pretty much this - the early versions of the game let you do anything you wanted to pretty much. It was a tool box. Only after it left the "proto-Traveller" and the setting grew did you have more restrictions on what you could or could not do tech-wise.

Having said that, I do tend to play well within the lines as a general rule.

 

[mike wightman]

But are they "Major" in the sense of having independently developed Jump Drive (after the Vilani definition/prejudice for the term), which is I believe the thought behind having no more than the standard six?

Who cares if they independently invented jump drive, if they can scrub your entire polity they are major;
not to mention the Aslan are not a major race by the Vilani definition, and there are questions about independent invention by the Vilani and the Solomani.

The Vilani explored via STL - during this time they may have stumbled upon Ancient era tech or even an alien race that had the jump drive that the Vilani took then removed said race.

The Solomani claim to independent jump drive comes with the rumours of Vegan or Vilani craft visiting Earth during the twentieth century...

Then there are the Geonee that 'reverse-engineered' the jump drive according to the Vilani and independently developed it according to them - the winner writes the history books...


Major/minor race is a racist tool to subjugate and belittle - which is why the Vilani invented it and the Syleans continued it as a means to confirm their ascendancy.

 

[Enoki]

The only one that I agree with is "Light sabers... don't exist." This breaks a technological barrier and I think that's one of the game's solid rules that should be adhered to. It would be akin to no magic or no time travel within the game.

I have no heartburn with ships smaller than 100 tons being able to jump if you can cram the equipment and fuel in one to do that. I see that as an artificial barrier that is better handled by making such a design impossible to build rather than an arbitrary rule. I also have no heartburn with someone building a ship that jumps less than one parsec, again an arbitrary rule in my view.

After all, one can easily find the equation of most of the charts and tables for ship building within the game, so plugging in fractions isn't a problem-- or violation-- in my view.

As for the aliens... How you want them to look is how they look. I think it's best if they look something close to printed material and descriptions, along with previous art-- canon or fan-- Add new ones, even major ones-- but don't do it where it tramples what's already out there unless you are using an entirely alternate setting.

My view overall is Traveller is a game to build on, not one that is fixed by the existing rules. So long as you follow the broad underlying tenants of the game, like things have to have some scientific and physics based credibility, jump distances are limited, and the like, it's perfectly fine to add to what's published. If all you do is limit yourself to canon, you are really limiting your imagination.

 

[robject]

Really good point about setting versus rules. I mean it. I wasn't consciously dividing between the two.

I intended to speak to setting canon -- that's where all the kerfuffle is, as far as I know.


Frankly, I think perhaps ALL canon issues have to do with the OTU, rather than Traveller. Even jump torpedoes. Am I wrong?

 

[Timerover51]

Really good point about setting versus rules. I mean it. I wasn't consciously dividing between the two.

I intended to speak to setting canon -- that's where all the kerfuffle is, as far as I know.


Frankly, I think perhaps ALL canon issues have to do with the OTU, rather than Traveller. Even jump torpedoes. Am I wrong?

I would say that you are about 100% correct. Canon normally involves the setting. Take a look at the number of Sherlock Holmes devotees who argue over how many wives did Watson have, or other contradictions in the Holmes canon.

By the way, I love the use of "kerfuffle". It has been a long time since I have seen that used.

 

[Enoki]

Isn't a "kerfuffle" some sort of Belgian pastry?

 

[Condottiere]

Light sabres are too iconic for another franchise, and you can always plagiarize Forty Kay.

As regards to sub hundred tonne starships, it's fun trying to design one, for for the integrity of Traveller, maintaining a minimum of a hundred tonnes is alright by me.

How you achieve that hundred tonnes of displacement, is another matter.

 

[Timerover51]

Isn't a "kerfuffle" some sort of Belgian pastry?

From the Oxford English Dictionary, online. Viewed as British informal.

A commotion or fuss, especially one caused by conflicting views.

Evidently from the Scottish. Love those Scots for some of their great terms.

 

[mike wightman]

Longer answer time:
1. Spacecraft under 100 tons can't jump
No spacecraft can jump. starships on the other hand can. The question is can you build starships less than 100t? Once you ban this then several Traveller rule sets have rules that do not apply to the setting.
2. Almost all Aslan art has the hands and paws wrong.
Agree, and a lot of it gets their faces wrong by making them too cat/lion like. They only have a superficial resemblance to lions.
3. All the (6) major races are identified. Don't add another one.
Agree and refer back to my earlier post concerning the nature of the major/minor distinction and the existance of vastly more powerful races out there.
4. The Primordials/Sparklers are not what Joe Fugate wanted them to be.
The baddies from the core plot line died with DGP's involvement with MT, that doesn't mean the primordials/sparklers have to be erased from Knightfall and disappear from canon.
5. Light sabers and Ansibles don't exist.
Actually the ansible does exist thanks to Mongoose Traveller. In their re-imaging of Secret of the Ancients there is an Ancient era ansible mentioned. So while it doesn't exist during the human dominance of this part of space it may or may not be technologically possible - unless reality manipulation technology has made it impossible until someone reboots reality with their own reality manipulation technology
6. Behind the Claw's aliens are non-canonical.
I don't consider anything in BtC to be canonical for the OTU setting.

 

[MichaelSTee]

I'm of the opinion that in my games, it's MTU. So things can change as I want them to. If I were using the OTU, I may not want to change too much, as that would make it hard to use later materials.
1. Jump ships under 100 dtons: I see no problem with having the drives necessary for a 100t ship be the smallest drives possible, so theoretically a smaller ship could be made; just put in less staterooms, and less cargo or vehicle space. Would such a ship be useful?
3. 6 major races: I wouldn't add another one inside Charted Space, as that would change the dynamics of the history. But I would consider adding another from outside Charted Space just beginning to encroach on Solomani or K'kree space, for example.
5. Light sabers and Ansibles - yeah, these I wouldn't add. Ltsabers are too much Star Wars; ansibles change the whole setting, and would turn the trading game into just a shipping game.
6. Behind the Claw's aliens - if they are minor races, rarely encountered off-world, does it matter if they are used?
2. Aslan art - again, does it matter in the game?

edit:
Ok, reading the other thread (Should It Be Canon?), I notice the line about who canon is for - publishers. Were I publishing for the OTU, I would agree with all 6 statements. Just to stay on Marc's good side. But in my own games, I'd use what I want.

 

[Tiikeri]

...Forty Kay.

Forty Kay, Makeup Line of the Far Future!

 

[aramis]

Forty Kay, Makeup Line of the Far Future!

WH40K: what to do with your upcoming Traveller minis game when GDW pulls your license...