Jump 1 ships are pretty useless

[simonh]

The Type Y has fuel tankage for two consecutive jumps, so it is not confined to its home cluster or the local main. The main problem is, as you say, that it takes a long time to get to far places. I'd expect its J2 counterpart to be more popular, but it will cost MCr8 more, so there would definitely be a niche market for the plain J1 version.

The Type-Y having tankage for two jumps, but only J-1 really doesn't make any sense. If you're going to give up 20% of your ship for fuel, you're probably going to shell out the extra credits to use it properly.

I just think that, while there are probably plenty of billionairs that can afford a nice J-2+ megayacht, there will be a lot more almost-billionairs that can just about afford a J-1 model.

Simon Hibbs

 

[aramis]

2J1 fuel and a J1 drive is commercially uncompetitive to J2, but for a yacht, can also represent some 10 weeks of cruising instead of a second jump.

 

[atpollard]

Action heroes tend not to drive Pintos.

Certainly not stock:

 

[rancke]

The Type-Y having tankage for two jumps, but only J-1 really doesn't make any sense. If you're going to give up 20% of your ship for fuel, you're probably going to shell out the extra credits to use it properly.

If you can't afford a J2 yacht, the choice is between a J1 yacht that can't cross a two parsec gap and a J1 yacht that can. Though I admit that I myself would carry the extra fuel in a demountable tank. (And IMTU it would be a water tank ).

IMTU a converted 1000T Tukera Longliner is a popular choice for a yacht, mostly because I have deck plans.

I just think that, while there are probably plenty of billionairs that can afford a nice J-2+ megayacht, there will be a lot more almost-billionairs that can just about afford a J-1 model.

Sure. And some richer ones who prefer to spend the money on something else.


Hans

 

[simonh]

2J1 fuel and a J1 drive is commercially uncompetitive to J2, but for a yacht, can also represent some 10 weeks of cruising instead of a second jump.

That's a really good point. A Yacht is much more likely to be used for detours and sightseeing trips in-system than pretty much any other type of vessel.

I see the Type-Y and variations of it as being a very standard low-end yacht type, but also by far the most common and as close to being mass-produced as yachts get.

Higher end vessels are going to belong to only the truly mega-rich and therefore are likely to be highly customised to their specific preferences and needs, so there won't really be a standard design for such ships. For example two equaly wealthy owners, with similar tastes and desires might for practical reasons need ships with different jump numbers. For example that might be due to the particular astrography of the subsector they live in, or the nature of the optimum route between the worlds on which they have their main business interests or favourite holiday destinations.


Simon Hibbs

 

[Vargas]

Altering Jump fuel requirements has a ripple effect that will change ship designs across the size spectrum, alter the way trade works and impact naval strategy and tactics. I make no judgment of the concept, just pointing out some broad implications.

Although we'd be rid of the pesky X-Boat once and for all.

 

[McPerth]

In MT, the 200dton Yacht (due to the differences in the ship construction rules for the ruleset) was Jump-4 and 4g.

I'm afraid that was an errata, as was discovered by the hits the drives could support and the fuel tanks. it was fixed in the Megatraveller Consolidated Errata, page 48 (link is in DonM's signature)

 

[salochin999]

Jump one ships are pretty useless in the grand scheme of things. Unless there is a main, you are stuck, and for adventuring they are pretty worthless overall since you cannot go anywhere ... Comments?

As far as the setting goes I'd say Free Traders/Scouts/Yachts all make sense for a particular niche in the setting and in practical terms they work fine for a random wandering type of game where the players run into adventures while they're doing something else. For a more "away team for hire" type game where the players are travelling to specific systems to investigate / deal with a specific issue then yes I'd say a higher Jn is better suited.

What I'd do is say

1) the Scouts have 200 dton and 400 dton ships versions of the Type S with higher Jn. IMTU Scout ships are designed as "away team" ships but as the size of team varies the size of ship varies also with the Type S being the 1-2 crew version and the 200 dton being the 4-8 person team version. Other organisations which also have a need for away team ships - including agencies that hire out away teams - buy surplus or build versions of the Scout Service designs.

2) for a trading game maybe create a niche for sleek higher Jn, Mn ships where cargo space has been traded for Jn, speed and defenses like the kind of ship that might be used for shipping valuable commodities - the space equivalent of an armored security truck - and then let the players get their hands on one of those.

I wouldn't want to change the standard ships though as I think they're suited to their niche.

edit:

If the concept of "away teams" - small expendable groups sent to check out problems - are a standard part of the setting then another option might be "away team transport" ships i.e. organisations having ships with their regular crew who transport an away team to a location and then hang back while the away team investigates.

A version of that idea I just thought of is a 400dton transport with its own crew that carries a Type S. The transport takes the away team to the system or an adjacent one and drops them off in their own ship so they are fully self-sufficient.

 

[Matt123]

"away teams" - small expendable groups sent to check out problems

Never heard the concept of Red Shirts phrased like that before. It sounds very doctrine like which I imagine would be unsettling for the party members involved. As opposed to the Red Shirt dynamic which could be rationalised as bad luck or co-incidence.

Very dark, I like it, consider it stolen

 

[WistfulD]

So just in this forum, we have a diversity of ideas about what constitutes an aceptable ship for: nobles, tramp frieghter merchants, and adventurers, both in terms of size of ship, and in jump distance.

What I can take from that is that there's plenty of room in the universe for infinite variety in ship designs, including J1 ships.

 

[samuelvss]

2J1 fuel and a J1 drive is commercially uncompetitive to J2, but for a yacht, can also represent some 10 weeks of cruising instead of a second jump.

Indeed. It could also represent a "there and back" J1 without refueling, useful not just for recreation, but for discrete liaisons, diplomatic or otherwise.

 

[mike wightman]

As others have said - consider what jump 1 ships were originally for.

The Vilani used them trade up and down mains, while the Terrans originally intended jump drive as a faster method for insystem transfer.

200t and 400t traders really are the white vans on the Imperium, they ar intended for local cluster or insystem use. It is a brave, foolhardy or just plain desperate free trader that includes type C or below starports in the routes. If there is profit to be made and no other choice then the risk may seem worthwhile.

For a group of PCs that are independently wealthy or have a rich patron backing them then higher jump number ships become a possibility, but that is not how free traders get started.

 

[rancke]

What you can do to make a J1 ship useful, or at least usable, as an adventurers' ship is to make it old and decrepit. Fully paid up or with a much smaller bank loan. A 40 year old ship is supposed to be worth only 20-25% of new price. A bank loan to that amount is much easier to service.

With the bank payments gone or much reduced, the operational expenses are much lower, enabling the ship to underbid regular J2 traffic across two parsecs or to jump with half-filled cargo hold and passenger staterooms and still make a profit.

The RAW should be amended to increase maintenance, mostly in the form of minor and medium breakdowns that have to be repaired. This explains why 40 year old ships are worth much less than brand new ships (which they wouldn't be under the RAW).

Essentially, anyone buying an old ship is betting that he can make enough money to cover the repairs and loss of revenue before his ship breaks down. Those who win that bet prosper; those that lose go broke and have to sell their ships to new sets of raving optimists.

It also gives the referee another way to encourage side trips. The flux modulator breaks down and the ship is stuck on a world for weeks while repairs are being made. In the meantime, the PCs can have an adventure (preferrably with some NPC crewmember supervising the repairs).

It also gives the PCs a greater freedom to initiate side trips. With much smaller bank payments and breakdowns much more likely while the ship is under way, it becomes feasible to park the ship for a month or two and go treasure-hunting or prospecting or whatever.

Of course, all this applies to J2 and J3 ships too.


Hans

 

[Dagrill]

Indeed. It could also represent a "there and back" J1 without refueling, useful not just for recreation, but for discrete liaisons, diplomatic or otherwise.

Or a Jump to the outer system and back.

"I don't need to pay your taxes as I'm only resident two days every fortnight...." sort of thing.

Kind Regards

David

 

[mike wightman]

This is one of the reasons IMTU the Imperium is a space based culture.

If the Imperium owns the space then anyone living there pays Imperial taxes.

Multi billionaire individuals from member worlds will find it advantageous to live in Imperial space rather than within planet bound jurisdiction.

 

[Selandia]

Action heroes tend not to drive Pintos.

Is it not how they discover that they are super hero, when they survive the fiery crash?

with appologies to RW victim of that car

Indeed, the Prince of Darkness does not try to intimidate its peones by showing up in a Yaris. There is a market for Batmobile.

Selandia

 

[Timerover51]

It is interesting to see how threads evolve from considering Jump-1 Free Traders to the yachts of the mega-rich.

 

[Condottiere]

It's aspirational, the Imperium Dream.

There, but for the grace of the Emperor, go I.

 

[rancke]

If the Imperium owns the space then anyone living there pays Imperial taxes.

Much easier to tax 11,000 member worlds than to tax 15 trillion citizens.


Hans

 

[mike wightman]

I don't know if I have made my post obvious enough.

The Imperium taxes member worlds - that's a given.

But those member worlds will also tax their own citizens. A superrich individual may find it advantageous to pay direct taxation to the Imperium due to living in Imperial owned space rather than paying local taxation.