Jump Drive

[Condottiere]

Calculating black globe energy capacity did show, at least for Mongoose, two hundred and fifty percent.

Probably safety margin, plus compensating capacity loss over time.

 

[mike wightman]

The capacitors are fully discharged when they open the jump portal - see MWM jump space article.

The same article also states:

Lanthanum coils are used to control the drive energies during a jump.

I take "during a jump" to mean the entire duration of the jump, therefore the jump drive is being used throughout the week in jump space.

 

[Condottiere]

Probably means that they're fully discharged of their current charge, since that would vary depending on the number of parsecs to be traversed.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Calculating black globe energy capacity did show, at least for Mongoose, two hundred and fifty percent.

Probably safety margin, plus compensating capacity loss over time.

High Guard has it at 18EP capacity (0.5Td) per Jn per 100Td hull, while the powerplant output needed to Jump is 2EP per Jn per 100Td (over 1 or 2 turns).

That's a 900% margin!

I assume that the Jump Drive supplies the extra 16EP per Jn per 100Td, unless the capacitors are normally kept at 89% charge until just before Jump...?

 

[mike wightman]

In the jump space article it mentions that:

When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through the
ship’s power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive. In
the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not work
at full efficiency, and some of the fuel is lost in carrying off fusion by products,
and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief period (less
than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been charged to
capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into appropriate
sections of the jump drive and jump begins.

My CT77 understanding was that the jump drive itself has some sort of fusion reaction chamber, the article and further editions that require the power plant equal to the jump drive show that it is the power plant that provides the energy.

But here is the thing, why can you only supercharge your power plant to fill the jump capacitors for a jump? And where is this reflected in High Guard?

Are the HG rules reflecting a pre-charge prior to jump - after all you still need the fuel to jump. Can you completely fill the jump capacitors before combat to give you an EP surplus to power weapons and agility?

 

[coliver988]

The capacitors are fully discharged when they open the jump portal - see MWM jump space article.

The same article also states:

I take "during a jump" to mean the entire duration of the jump, therefore the jump drive is being used throughout the week in jump space.

Just to be devil's advocate here (as I actually agree with you that the jump drives are used throughout the jump week), you *could* interpret "during the jump" as just the process of getting into jump space, as in jumping universes. Once there you coast along as is the other view.

Words matter, and English can be a very porous language open to a lot of interpretation.

"Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.” ― Mark Twain.

RPG rules are pliable

 

[whartung]

In the jump space article it mentions that:

...At the end of a very brief period (less
than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been charged to
capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into appropriate
sections of the jump drive and jump begins.

My CT77 understanding was that the jump drive itself has some sort of fusion reaction chamber, the article and further editions that require the power plant equal to the jump drive show that it is the power plant that provides the energy.

What's interesting is that the way that I read this section is that the PP is used to charge the capacitors, and the capacitors are used to control the jump.

Where it says "the energy is then fed in to appropriate sections", I read that as "the energy is then fed FROM THE CAPACITORS in to the appropriate sections".

This tells me that the power plant is "less important", what's keys to the process is filling the capacitors.

This is (too me) congruent with the idea mentioned early on that Jump could be powered by something like solar panels, because it make sense to me that panels could be used to charge the capacitors. Obviously, a fusion power plant is much faster, but now we're only talking about total energy stored, rather an actual charge rate.

The only thing that makes sense to me as far as requiring something like a fusion plant is that perhaps the capacitors are leaky. That they are overcharged on purpose to overcome the leakage in order to have the total power available for the actual Jump. By that logic, the Jump is a brief event draining the capacitors in contrast to having the capacitors act as a week long battery trickling the power over the entirety of the Jump.

If we have capacitors that can store the charge for a week, then we should certainly be able to charge the capacitors over some longer period of time than just a few minutes, and that suggests we can use lower rated power sources to build up enough energy for the Jump.

 

[mike wightman]

Which then begs the question why can't we charge the capacitors with electricity from a fission power plant when it has a higher energy density than solar energy collectors...

and of course the old question of if a black globe fills the capacitors to full charge why do you need fuel as well?

 

[Condottiere]

If you had enough Energizer batteries, you could power the jump drive from that, the fusion reactor requirement having since been jettisoned.

Probably you could do it directly from the solar panelling, if you don't mind them being ripped off as you drop down the rabbit hole.

 

[coliver988]

If you had enough Energizer batteries, you could power the jump drive from that, the fusion reactor requirement having since been jettisoned.

Probably you could do it directly from the solar panelling, if you don't mind them being ripped off as you drop down the rabbit hole.

wait a sec - are you saying Grandfather was the Energizer Bunny?

 

[Condottiere]

Is he still going?

 

[mike wightman]

If you had enough Energizer batteries, you could power the jump drive from that, the fusion reactor requirement having since been jettisoned.

Probably you could do it directly from the solar panelling, if you don't mind them being ripped off as you drop down the rabbit hole.

As long as you build the jump cable network into the solar panels there is no reason for them to be ripped off.

 

[willtron3030]

wait a sec - are you saying Grandfather was the Energizer Bunny?

:sigh: So THAT's what that costume was at DragonCon last year.

Furries ruin everything.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[whartung]

Which then begs the question why can't we charge the capacitors with electricity from a fission power plant when it has a higher energy density than solar energy collectors...

Indeed.

Demonstrably, this "can't happen", because if it could, then well, it rocks the entire jump ship economy.

Alternate energy sources (solar, fission, fusion, anti-matter, coal fired power plant on the planet surface), alternate fueling sources (drop tanks, fuel shuttles, "tankless" jump).

When you don't need to charge the capacitors in "a few minutes", but can take your time (hours, days, weeks), all sorts of options open up. Traders can start recharging their capacitors as soon as they leave Jump, and charge them continuously while off loading and onboarding passengers and cargo. Ideally having a power plant size to where the capacitors will be ready to jump by the time all of the other sundry port business is done. "Hey look, we just freed up 40 DTons of space!".

Military ships might have the massive fuel load to "jump fast", but perhaps less so everyone else. It also allows for better handling of emergencies.

"Yea, we misjumped, we're in a dead system, and the jump tanks are dry, but if we ration, we can get J1 charged up in to the capacitors from the main power plant over the next few weeks. It's going to be cold and lonely, but we can do it and get home."

 

[willtron3030]

Can you completely fill the jump capacitors before combat to give you an EP surplus to power weapons and agility?

Maybe, but that's a few extra tons of "megajoules per kilogram" inside your hull, and it's designed for rapid release of that energy.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Can you completely fill the jump capacitors before combat to give you an EP surplus to power weapons and agility?

Errata addressed this:

Energy passes to the jump capacitors (during a combat round) either by the rules for Breaking Off by Jumping or by the rules for black globes absorbing energy. Once energy is in the jump capacitors, it can be used in only two ways: by the rules for Breaking off by Jumping or disposed of through the power plant (as explained in the Black Globes rule). Energy disposed of through a ship's power plant is not actually used to power the ship; it is eliminated. Capacitors cannot be used to power the ship if the power plant has been disabled; in fact, if the power plant has been disabled, energy in the capacitors cannot be disposed of through the power plant.

Of course it makes no sense, but it's canon?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Where it says "the energy is then fed in to appropriate sections", I read that as "the energy is then fed FROM THE CAPACITORS in to the appropriate sections".

This tells me that the power plant is "less important", what's keys to the process is filling the capacitors.

My interpretation is that the capacitors are used to regulate the power flood: The power is generated by the power plant, fed to the capacitors, and simultaneously the capacitors feed the jump procedure.

The capacitors just evens out fluctuations in power generation and demand. Hence the capacitors are not enough to power the jump alone, but both fuel and capacitors are necessary.

 

[mike wightman]

That errata rule makes absolutely no sense at all, but then a lot of the so called errata doesn't actually fix the problems it was supposed to.

The power plant can now magically destroy energy?

The original rule that you could use it to power the ship makes a lot more sense, but it requires a much more detailed energy management sub-game for HG.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The power plant can now magically destroy energy?

According to SSOM the "power plant" includes the heat radiation system. So, the PP can't destroy energy, but it can get rid of it by radiating it away as heat.