Jump torpedo

[CliffBates]

"Jump Message Torpedoes: Consists of little more than a jump drive, fuel and a recording unit. 'J-Torps' are used to send messages by automatically broadcasting a pre-recorded tape at the conclusion of their jumps. "

This was mentioned in the Adventure 4:Leviathan pg 35. Does anyone know if this was mentioned again? Does anyone know the specs on it? It would have to be at last 100tons, no?

 

[mike wightman]

It is first mentioned in 77 LBB2 as a variant of the standard missile.

There has been considerable discussion about it since.

 

[Travellerspud]

....nothing more than Zhodani lies and propaganda

(this would break the X-Boat system, so it surely was eliminated and the 100 ton rule made to help support the idea for the 3rd Imperium back ground, IMO)

 

[Redcap]

IMTU they were found to be unreliable, with a disproportionate number going missing after jumping, either through misjump or other mishap, forcing a return to more traditional ways of getting the jump-mail through (X-Boats, couriers, etc).

 

[mike wightman]

....nothing more than Zhodani lies and propaganda

(this would break the X-Boat system, so it surely was eliminated and the 100 ton rule made to help support the idea for the 3rd Imperium back ground, IMO)

You mean the x-boat system which is built up from an illegal ship design and hence breaks the setting?
Not everything in the 77 rules made it into the OTU, and not everything in the OTU can be found in the rules...

 

[CliffBates]

77 LBB2... you mean Little Black Book 2 77 version.. but what page? I only found this mention on page 18 "jump capable message torpedoes".... but the whole concept of there being such things as torpedoes also isn't dealt with, especially in the CT SS3 Special Supplement 3 Missiles (or its revision)

The Supplement does say this "Message Torpedoes carry physical messages, materials, equipment, or samples from one location to another. Their payload section is a compartment which holds the items securely. They also carry a radio sensor and a controller. A message torpedo payload masses 10 kilograms and costs Crl00 at tech level 5." But mentions nothing about them being jump capable.

It would have been a very good idea in the supplement do address the differences between standard missiles both larger torpedoes (that are designed to be anti-ship weapon with a bigger punch and longer range than missiles--something the Vilani surely would have used in how they used missile weapons systems at such long ranges contra lasers) and and what would be surely much larger land/ground based Ground-to-Close and standard Orbit interceptor missiles with larger warheads.

 

[CliffBates]

Regarding jump messenger torpedoes... They would have their usages as emergency distress beacon sent out to reach the nearest Imperial naval and/or Scout base.

Here is something I put together that would respect the 100t rule:

XZ-00289 Jump Message Torpedo
XZ-15525F1-000000-00000-0 MCr 133.53 100.00 tons
batteries bearing Crew=1
batteries TL=15
Passengers=0 Low=0 Cargo=0 Fuel=62.5 EP=5.0 Agility=0 Security=0 Marines=0
Emergency_agility=2 Def_mod=1 Architects_fees=MCr1.34 Discounted_cost=MCr106.82


Jump Message Torpedo, Experimental Express
100 ton, TL 15 Military Design, 133.53 MCr
0 crew (Command: 1+0)

__Ton._____MCr.____EP.____
| ___.__ | __7.00 | _.__ | Sphere (min 20 MCr), partially streamlined, fuel scoops
| __3.00 | __0.03 | _.__ | purification plant
| __0. | __0 | _.__ | bridge/No Crew avionics all built into the computer
| _14.00 | _83.00 | 5.00 | computer model 6-fib
| __6.00 | _24.00 | _.__ | drive jump #5
| __5.00 | __3.50 | _.__ | drive maneouver #2
| __5.00 | _15.00 | _.__ | power plant #5
| __2.50 | ___.__ | _.__ | fuel, PP endurance 2 weeks (10 weeks powered down)
| _60.00 | ___.__ | _.__ | fuel, jump range 6 parsecs
| __0.00 | __0. | _.__ |
‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒
| 119.50 | 133.53 | 5.00 EP used, PP generates 5.00 EPs

134.87 MCr (first ship, includes architect fees) built in 40 weeks
106.82 MCr (20% discount in volume, TCS) built in 32 weeks
CT Ship Designer by Matt. Visit https://tca-2014-12.herokuapp.com

Notes:
This is a self-contained system. Deployed by a ship and the computer operates the JMT totally. It needs no crew.

It is designed to seek out the nearest Imperial Naval Base or ISS Base and report. Any attempt to gain unauthorized access to the JMT physicaly will program the Powerpant to go critical and generate a fusion explosion with what Fuel it has available. One it jumps into a system, but there is no Imperal base present, the JMT will seek fuel from gas-giants or water sources and calculate of the near by stars either hosts or will get the unit closer to an Imperial base and then jump and repeat process until it arrives at such an Imperial site. The ship upon picking up an imperial IFF singal will hail it (otherwise it stays dark, and would be rather stealth for IFF system). Upon confirmation of security codes the ship with then transfer its data banks with all data it posses from both from the ship/unit that sent it and the data it

collected along its way.

 

[mike wightman]

This is 77 CT - lots of ideas for the ref to flesh out. The jump torpedo is indeed mentioned in the missile section, and if you notice the author uses the term torpedo a couple of times when writing about missiles.

A:4 is only official CT supplement or adventure to make use of them, and by the time of the CT 81 revision the jump torpedo was written out of canon.

I should probably mention that A:4 was actually written by the UKs very own Games Workshop, they had a licence to produce OTU stuff back then, hence the range of Citadel miniatures for Traveller and the numerous articles in White Dwarf. It doesn't really fit into the OTU anymore.

 

[aramis]

You mean the x-boat system which is built up from an illegal ship design and hence breaks the setting?
Not everything in the 77 rules made it into the OTU, and not everything in the OTU can be found in the rules...

The XBoat is perfectly legal under Bk2-77. The mythical 10 tons of computers even fit.

20 Bridge
15 JD B=4
40 Fuel 1j4
08 2x SR
02 Model 2
15 "computer banks"
​

It's kinda pointless, as you can instead put in a MD A and PP A and make it actually useful without a tender...

 

[mike wightman]

The jump torpedo is perfectly legal for 77 LBB2 too. That's the point...

 

[Hyphen]

Have we had this discussion? Go to my site for some options:
==> Tavonni Repair Bays
==> Canon Problems
==> CANON PROBLEM 1: Jump Torpedoes

 

[Patron Zero]

I would tend to see a jump torpedo as Traveller's version of a black box and rescue buoy.

A ship in distress launching such in hopes of rescue or said device automatically released based on a protocol written in said vessel's operational-engineering is detected.

 

[CliffBates]

I would tend to see a jump torpedo as Traveller's version of a black box and rescue buoy.

A ship in distress launching such in hopes of rescue or said device automatically released based on a protocol written in said vessel's operational-engineering is detected.

I would agree with this.... but one that goes finds Friendlies of the where the ship is... and what happened.

 

[Condottiere]

My take on it is that to have a stable jump, you need about a hundred tonnes, give or take.

 

[Redcap]

Aha. Thought I'd seen an errata on this. From the CT Errata Compendium ("CTEC"), pp36:

(snip)
Page 35, Jump Message Torpedoes (correction): Eliminate this paragraph, and replace them with additional RPV drones on page 31.
(snip)
Pages 40-43, Library Data, Ship Designs (review): All of the designs and conversions (and carried craft) need to
be verified against High Guard ‘80.

So, I guess that's fairly clear, they aren't in the OTU following the publication of the CTEC, which was last updated, according to the latest copy over on FFE, in 2015 (this year) (http://www.farfuture.net/errata.html).

THIS SAID...

If you want 'em in YTU, then by all means, use them. I'd suggest using SS#3 "Missiles" as a baseline for designing them, and work them up from there.

Hope the above helps someone or several someones

 

[mike wightman]

The removal of jump torpedoes is not and can not be seen as errata. It is a deliberate change to the rules based on the new setting.

MWM has passed a dictat that meson guns only exist in the T5 OTU as spinal mounts. No more battlefield meson guns, no more meson bays.

Looks like the errata police are going to be really busy retconning the text to LBB4, LBB5, MT, T4, TNE... you get the point.

The rules exist in the 77 edition. Just because they don't fit a vision of the OTU doesn't mean they should be removed from the rules retroactively.

 

[Supplement Four]

The rules exist in the 77 edition. Just because they don't fit a vision of the OTU doesn't mean they should be removed from the rules retroactively.

You tell 'em, Sigg!

 

[Redcap]

The removal of jump torpedoes is not and can not be seen as errata. It is a deliberate change to the rules based on the new setting.

Is it? I'm not so sure; if it were the case that objects smaller than 100 tons could jump, we could have seen missiles jumping into enemy systems bearing world-buster warheads, homing into the nearest populated planet, and doing the horrific in every major war the Traveller universe has seen. Can you imagine how, for example, the Sword Worlds might have acted in the FFW, had this tech been available in the rules?

Some rules NEED to be removed so as to balance game play. Just saying.

MWM has passed a dictat that meson guns only exist in the T5 OTU as spinal mounts. No more battlefield meson guns, no more meson bays.

That's a bit harsh, calling it a dictat, but I get the point on this issue; IMTU, they'll remain available - and that's the key, here: IMTU (or IYTU, whatever ) is a reality of sorts. You can include or discard whatever you like for your version of the game as you see fit. Now, if you're writing something for the OTU, that's a different story, obviously, but IMTU is a handy thing to have.

This said, I honestly can't see why this was handed down as a rule; a meson weapon has no recoil, thus cannot damage the space frame of the firing warship (mass drivers can, big style!); I can almost see why he'd want to prohibit them to spional mounts assembled on construction of the keel of a capital ship, but I'd have said those would be for the most powerful Meson weapons - there's nothing I can see to prohibit them being tacked on as an afterthought to a lower capability ship in extremis during a war as a bay-mounting, given appropriate penalties for use (difficulty of manufacture, cost, power drain, targeting, etc). However, this is outside the scope of jump torps, and that's where I'll leave that bit of the argument

Looks like the errata police are going to be really busy retconning the text to LBB4, LBB5, MT, T4, TNE... you get the point.

Reconning, rebooting, call it what you like, but as above: If you don't like the changes, don't use 'em. IYTU

The rules exist in the 77 edition. Just because they don't fit a vision of the OTU doesn't mean they should be removed from the rules retroactively.

Valid point, but as mentioned in the first point I replied to above, I'm not so sure it applies in this case, due to game balancing.

YMMV

 

[whulorigan]

MWM has passed a dictat that meson guns only exist in the T5 OTU as spinal mounts. No more battlefield meson guns, no more meson bays.

In the T5.0 Core Rules, Meson Guns do exist as a 200dton "Main Weapon" Bay. Has this also been changed going forward toward T5.1, or is that an exception?

 

[Redcap]

It's not evident in the current T5 Errata, as far as I can see (pages 7-8) http://www.traveller5.net/Traveller5ErrataCurrent.pdf