Lanthanum Grid in Carried Craft?

[Seriayne]

I know this -has- to have been discussed prior to my arrival on the board, probably ad-nauseum, but -

With piggybacked ships (Lab Ship, Fat Trader, etc.), is the jump bubble being extended beyond the hull of the carried ship via some mechanics in the parent ship's JD tonnage, or do the small craft have extensions of the parent ship's lanthanum grid endemic in the hull, at no cost to the design properties of the carried ship?

Some designs seem cradled so that the parent ship's bubble extends around it, but like the Lab Ship's small craft - it'd stick out if some alternate allowance weren't made, the implications being that you can't mix and match carried craft easily (though with the Lab Ship, the boat/launch, etc. has always seemed kinda generic).

Obviously, if you lose the carried craft, there are lanthanum grids that take the new geometry into consideration (beneath the carried ship's docking/berthing/cradle).

I've also seen some designs that *ahem* 'gain jump-range' once their carried craft are away, which fits % based engine design systems but doesn't take max jump range vs TL into consideration. I would assume that this increased sliding jump number would have to be part of the initial ship design, not something that you could just whip up in the course of ditching all your subcraft and suddenly upping J2 to J3 because the ship's dton totals are different?

 

[far-trader]

Grids. Bubbles. And other "embellishments" of the original Jump Drive have all introduced more problems than they're worth imo. Or they fell short of going the distance in fixing the rest of the rules to match.

Things like hull damage affecting jump for one. If you've got a grid that is critical to jumping it seems a huge gaping hole in the hull is going to be a problem.

Things like jump fuel being based on displacement, not displacement plus (for a bubble) or surface area (for a grid).

Things like externally carried small craft like you noted. And drop tanks.

Things like hulls costing the same whether a star-ship (jump capable) or space-ship (not jump capable) implying no grid.

As for the designed jump capability, I've always done it that way in MTU. For example, if you intend to be able to make J3 after dropping externals from your J2 ship then you will need the bigger and more expensive of the two jump drives, as well as the proper computer and programs (where applicable) of course. If you didn't design your ship to the higher capability then no, you can't suddenly increase your range by leaving bits behind.

EDIT: Oh yes, and I'd meant to mention but got distracted, asteroid hulls, which would seem to not fit well with grids or bubbles either.

 

[Gray Lensman]

I would just say that the Jump Bubble extends from the grid by a certain distance and forget about it.

Okay, Okay, all you gearheads can shoot now :rofl:.

 

[far-trader]

Full auto, bursts, or single shots?

 

[Gray Lensman]

Full auto, bursts, or single shots?

Don't matter has long as you get it right, pretty painless that way .

Although I do design some stuff for my campaign it is all about the role playing for me. I tend to do just what I said with some of the stickier issues like the whole jump drive thing.

I mean pick one:
Fuel used all at once or not
Misjumps
Jump Diameters
Hull Grid or not
Ect, Ect, Ect.

BLEH

 

[JAFARR]

GL' in other words, "Let's Play Traveller, not spend all session doing all the extraneous math!"

 

[Seriayne]

Only real RP concern is the 'get a case of the crazies' going outside the hull while in jump - now that has been brought up in more than one of my games, though the current group's far too sane and reasonable to try such desperate maneuvers).

If the bubble's big in places, ie. more pockets 'windshadow', etc. the effects might be survivable.

I'm not looking at a bad case of 'maths', just general understandings or conjectures - Mind you, its been over twenty years asking myself these questions before finding this forum. I ruled on it by fiat several times, at least for a gaming session or campaign or two, but I'm interested in other peoples ideas, else I wouldn't have asked, that's all.

 

[far-trader]

FWIW my take (from CT LBB 1-3) for years was, and seems to go back to after the kewlness of the latest description wears off, is that all "modern" hulls are built basically the same. In this case "modern" encompasses a number of related effects based on gravity manipulation. From the smallest space fighters to the largest starships. From memory and rushed so I may be forgetting something and the notes may be lacking...

The tech covers such things as:

• Artificial gravity (1G* - off or on dependent on powerplant - shipwide - and no GravPong)

*generally, sometimes different but never variable or selectable by area)

• Inertial Compensation - exactly* matching maneuver drive acceleration (so you still feel collisions but generally not your maneuver actions)

*though sometimes with poorly maintained or damaged maneuver drives you may suffer a lag and feel some sensation of acceleration

• Jump Field - tuned to the hull and any attached externals - if externals are missing (drop tanks jettisoned, carried craft left behind) the field will be out of spec and you suffer an increased risk of misjump - also EVA while in jump is hazardous for any extended period, fatal if you lose contact with the hull

• Protective Fields - tied into the maneuver and power - maneuver field acts to deflect small debris from the hull to reduce or eliminate damage - power field serves as a radiation screen to protect the occupants from hazardous radiation and reduce the damage of even quite lethal radiation

All of this is part of the original hull build for all craft. It all uses the same field effect, tied into different parts of the drives (maneuver, jump, power). The field is set (AG orientation and strength for one) when the hull is laid down. Being a built in field effect little will destroy it entirely without the whole vessel or governing drive being destroyed first.

 

[Icosahedron]

Like the other guys said, IMTU the drive generates the field, we don't need no stinking grids.

As for EVA, IMTU there's no crazies, just death. In Jump Space the ship is its own pocket universe. Lose contact with the ship and you pinch off into your own pocket universe. Game over.

 

[Seriayne]

FWIW my take (from CT LBB 1-3) for years was, and seems to go back to after the kewlness of the latest description wears off, is that all "modern" hulls are built basically the same. In this case "modern" encompasses a number of related effects based on gravity manipulation. From the smallest space fighters to the largest starships. From memory and rushed so I may be forgetting something and the notes may be lacking...

The tech covers such things as:

• Artificial gravity (1G* - off or on dependent on powerplant - shipwide - and no GravPong)

*generally, sometimes different but never variable or selectable by area)

• Inertial Compensation - exactly* matching maneuver drive acceleration (so you still feel collisions but generally not your maneuver actions)

*though sometimes with poorly maintained or damaged maneuver drives you may suffer a lag and feel some sensation of acceleration

• Jump Field - tuned to the hull and any attached externals - if externals are missing (drop tanks jettisoned, carried craft left behind) the field will be out of spec and you suffer an increased risk of misjump - also EVA while in jump is hazardous for any extended period, fatal if you lose contact with the hull

• Protective Fields - tied into the maneuver and power - maneuver field acts to deflect small debris from the hull to reduce or eliminate damage - power field serves as a radiation screen to protect the occupants from hazardous radiation and reduce the damage of even quite lethal radiation

All of this is part of the original hull build for all craft. It all uses the same field effect, tied into different parts of the drives (maneuver, jump, power). The field is set (AG orientation and strength for one) when the hull is laid down. Being a built in field effect little will destroy it entirely without the whole vessel or governing drive being destroyed first.

Cool, that's pretty close to what I kinda go with now, except I hadn't thought about integrating protective fields ahead of the hull - That makes sense, as EM fields should be cake after all the other A-grav stuff maneuver drive ships are capable of.

I loved Starship Operator's Manual 1 when it came out, and still go back and re-read tidbits from time to time, using most of it as canon, but I still wonder what, SOM2 would have been like, since they kinda covered everything, broadly, needed for the setting/tech.

Did always wonder how grav deck plates worked, since while repulsors and other grav tech were explained, but tractors are like, tech 17ish or so? I later just figured that the ability to exert localized gravity was easy (I remember anti-hijack mentioning increasing grav somewhere, as well as making corridors into vertical shafts.), but executing the same sort of strength pull over starship operating distances was what was insanely hard.

This leading to things like delicate grav sculptures and battlefield tractors plausible for limited use in my campaign. Plant a localized gravity field beneath the ground, beneath certain intersections or choke points in a city. Wait for a vehicle to pass within range, and jack up the G's to 6 - even grav tanks close enough to the field would become ... well immobilized gun emplacements, if not sitting ducks.

 

[Seriayne]

Like the other guys said, IMTU the drive generates the field, we don't need no stinking grids.

As for EVA, IMTU there's no crazies, just death. In Jump Space the ship is its own pocket universe. Lose contact with the ship and you pinch off into your own pocket universe. Game over.

Ohdear! So the grey wobble of space IYTU is ship-skin close?! *blanks the LCD windows!* Now I have the jibblies.

 

[far-trader]

Ohdear! So the grey wobble of space IYTU is ship-skin close?!

Pretty much so in MTU anyway. There's an analogous surface tension effect. So small deviations into the hull, such as damage or open hatches only allow a dimpling of J-space into the opening. And a crewperson could crawl along the hull if they hug it tightly with J-space flowing over them. It's itchy burny cold even through a VaccSuit and you'd swear you hear whispering and feel it caressing you, with flashes of something just at the periphery of your vision...

:devil:

 

[Seriayne]

Pretty much so in MTU anyway. There's an analogous surface tension effect. So small deviations into the hull, such as damage or open hatches only allow a dimpling of J-space into the opening. And a crewperson could crawl along the hull if they hug it tightly with J-space flowing over them. It's itchy burny cold even through a VaccSuit and you'd swear you hear whispering and feel it caressing you, with flashes of something just at the periphery of your vision...

:devil:

That's made of pure win. :> Reminds me of a misjump I once ran, wherein the player's delerium, they all dreamed of a very large droyne peeling the top of the ship back like a tin of sardines and peering in on them, each individually, as if searching for something in particular. 5 seperate 'GM notes', same dream on each card, but personalized a bit.

 

[Gray Lensman]

GL' in other words, "Let's Play Traveller, not spend all session doing all the extraneous math!"

Yes sir, during the session anyway. I have done plenty of math OOC for worlds and equipment but during the game the show must go on!

I loved Starship Operator's Manual 1 when it came out, and still go back and re-read tidbits from time to time, using most of it as canon, but I still wonder what, SOM2 would have been like, since they kinda covered everything, broadly, needed for the setting/tech.

I too would have loved to see SOM2, I do use SOM1 if a player wants a description of something that is in it.

 

[atpollard]

FWIW: A plasma will 'stick' to a magnetized metal plate even distributing itself semi-uniformly around irregular surfaces (I saw it in a research lab once). I also noticed that Traveller Starship hulls tend to be iron based [Hard Steel, Crystaliron, iron asteroids - superdense is not specified in CT but could be partially collapsed iron].

Perhaps the jump bubble is a hydrogen plasma clinging to the magnetized iron hull.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Pretty much so in MTU anyway. There's an analogous surface tension effect. So small deviations into the hull, such as damage or open hatches only allow a dimpling of J-space into the opening. And a crewperson could crawl along the hull if they hug it tightly with J-space flowing over them. It's itchy burny cold even through a VaccSuit and you'd swear you hear whispering and feel it caressing you, with flashes of something just at the periphery of your vision...

:devil:

A PC went out to fix a faulty grid in my game, which was pretty much like that!

FF&S2 gives a (fairly low) price for the grid. Externally-carried craft should have one.

 

[sabredog]

IMTU the way it works is pre-JTAS articles, no “Jump Grids”, no pseudo-science explanation required. The Jump Drive rips open a hole in the fabric of Real Space and your ship enters it powered along by the J-Drive. The computer timer is ticking away to moment you a supposed to be where your navigator calculated you to be (computer damage might increase mis-jump…navigation skill is a DM to avoid mis-jump when making that 13+ roll –which might be higher due to damage to computer/j-drive/avionics) to drop back into Real Space.

Go outside during jump and you might not return. Might go mad. Might fuse with bits of the ship. Who knows? “Everyone” has heard of some crazy Scout who did it and survived but it’s probably just an urban legend.

When the computer timer goes off….or the ship runs out of fuel….the Jump Drive shuts off and the ship drops back into Real Space, quietly pinging and creaking as the hull cools while still at whatever vector they were at when they went into jump.

As for parasite craft: when the concept of battleriders came out that put the kibosh on any ideas that ships with a suddenly lower mass than with their full compliment of battleriders might be able to jump further. No mention of that sort of thing was ever made officially, and so I took that to mean that jump drives work at their highest rating for the mass they are installed for and carving bits off the ship (or leaving behind battleriders) won’t increase that efficiency.

It has to do with the physics of how the dang things work in the first place and if you open that black box in the drive to try to increase its efficiency you’ll not only void the warranty but you’ll either kill us all or go mad. A crazy old Scout who knew someone who tried once told me so.

 

[Icosahedron]

Ohdear! So the grey wobble of space IYTU is ship-skin close?! *blanks the LCD windows!* Now I have the jibblies.

No grey wobble either, MTU is older than that. Just cave-black.

Beyond the ship is nothing, no stars, no sparks, no whispers, no time, no space. If you let go of the ship - welcome to your very own universe tailored to your suit dimensions.

No throwing a tool in the opposite direction to get back, no holing your suit to form a makeshift directional jet - the ship isn't in your universe any more.

MTU requires a working J-Drive and fuel to exit Jump space as well as to enter it. Gambling skill gives you a DM on drawing straws... :devil:

 

[Rigel Stardin]

Side Note:

Author James White had an influence on the creators of Traveller (Conway and Thornastor Just two planets in Spinward Marches named after major characters in his books). In one of his book (I believe it's Ambulance Ship) they discuss working outside of the ship during travel in Jump space...

 

[mbrinkhues]

Definitly a lanthanium grid, zuchai crystals and a field that is a bubble with the ships biggest dimension +x as a diameter.