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Largest private yacht

rancke

Absent Friend
I'm making up short one-paragraph entries to my library data about Imperial shipbuilding companies (The same that built the Tigresses for the Imperial Navy). For inspiration I'm looking at real life shipbuilders. One of them is Blohm + Voss who built the world's two biggest private yachts. So as a bit of chrome I'm going to make one of my shipbuilding companies be the builder of the two largest private yachts in the Imperium.

Only... how big would that be? 1000T? 5,000T? 10,000T? 20,000? More?

Let's assume that the Emperor and archdukes and dukes and world rulers will use ships that formally belong to the IN and similar organizations and thus do not qualify as private yachts. We're talking about yachts belonging to private multi-billionaires. (Jump-6 yachts, of course ;)).


Hans
 
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Personally I think around 2,000 for the average upper end.

There maybe a few in the up to 5,000 ton range, but not many

I think that most would stay around 1,000 to 1,200 range.

Dave Chase
 
Here's some very 'back of the envelope' calculations based on the real world.

Currently the world's 'largest' ship is the Prelude owned by Shell which is 1601 feet in length. Currently the 'largest' yacht is Azzam which is 590.5 feet in length.

I couldn't quickly find any information about how much the ships displace but for what we are doing we can get by with some estimates. (Azzam's Length/Prelude's Length)3 gives us an estimated ration of 5.017%, meaning that the Azzam has a tonnage of 5.017% of the tonnage of the world's largest ship.

That seems to me to be a pretty good place to start. If memory serves the largest ships in the Imperium weigh in at around 500kt. If the largest yacht in the Imperium is likewise about 5% of the largest ship then it would be about 25,000 tons.

This seems like a ridiculously large private ship, but then the Azzam is ridiculously large as well, being longer than a Ticonderoga class cruiser. Whether the largest yacht in the Imperium is in the same relative category is of course up to you.
 
One hundred tons per billion credits is conservative; how large a megacorporation might be persuaded to build one and write it off as a business expense for it's CEO would be illuminating.
 
One hundred tons per billion credits is conservative; how large a megacorporation might be persuaded to build one and write it off as a business expense for it's CEO would be illuminating.

Paint a sports logo on it and sell team hats, shirts, jackets and key rings everywhere it goes. No need for a write off then...:D
 
That seems to me to be a pretty good place to start. If memory serves the largest ships in the Imperium weigh in at around 500kt. If the largest yacht in the Imperium is likewise about 5% of the largest ship then it would be about 25,000 tons.
I've always believed that the largest ship in the Imperium is 1,000,000T.

This seems like a ridiculously large private ship, but then the Azzam is ridiculously large as well, being longer than a Ticonderoga class cruiser. Whether the largest yacht in the Imperium is in the same relative category is of course up to you.
Yes, but when I have no real notion of something myself, it helps to get other people's opinions and insights.

It does sound like a ridiculously large ship, even if three quarters of it goes to drives and fuel tanks. OTOH, perhaps the main point is that it's larger than any other yacht. The Imperium's billionaires have had yachts built for them for over a millenium (or call it half a millenium if you think the Civil War somehow "reset" the playing field). If every few years some billionaire orders a yacht that's bigger than anything else built so far, you could get quite a bit of size inflation in that time. But several thousand dT of 'payload'? What would the naval architect spend that volume on?

(One idea just occurred to me: A big garden or park. Perhaps even a hunnting preserve.)

Perhaps I should go with the largest passenger liners instead?


Hans
 
A J6 Yacht would spend a LOT of tonnage on drives and fuel and the crew to operate the ship ... before getting into the private 5 star hotel that it carries for the owner and his guests.
 
A J6 Yacht would spend a LOT of tonnage on drives and fuel and the crew to operate the ship ... before getting into the private 5 star hotel that it carries for the owner and his guests.

Yes, that's the three quarters of the ship I allude to above. But even then you're going to have around 6000T available on a 25,000T yacht. That's 84,000 cubic meters or 24,000 square meters of 3.5 meters high deck space. OK, not enough for a hunting preserve, but you could fit a nice bit of park in there.


Hans
 
Only... how big would that be? 1000T? 5,000T? 10,000T? 20,000? More?

Let's assume that the Emperor and archdukes and dukes and world rulers will use ships that formally belong to the IN and similar organizations and thus do not qualify as private yachts. We're talking about yachts belonging to private multi-billionaires. (Jump-6 yachts, of course ;)).

Just for reference Travellers Digest 9 has the Emperor's yacht "Pax Imperia" at 10,000tons and J4. As you note it's an IN unit or auxiliary. Probably a good benchmark for that era though.

You can convert any size of ship to become a yacht, but you're talking new builds so I'd say 25,000tons was a good upper limit for a useful luxury vessel.

Its a tricky question because "size matters" is something that may be very important to the commissioning billionaire, and whats the lifespan of a luxury yacht compared to a naval vessel or commercial ship.

If the 6000tons of luxury interior can be upgraded that's ok, but they exterior styling of the yacht might start to look unfashionable long before the ship comes to the end of its life.

It strikes me at this size, thinking of a yacht as purely a leisure craft might be wrong. Luxury yachts are statements about the owner. A 25k yacht might be the center of a patrons power, it might be part palace, part corporate headquarters. It might even be part weapons platform, depending on the owners source of wealth.

If your 6000tons is all accommodation then I'd suggest, there will be private "family" space, public entertainment space, staff and support space and security (ships troops, weapons and fortification).
 
Condottiere's Counsel - Never have anything that's bigger and/or better than your boss's.

Reference Wolsey/Hampton Court Palace, David/Bathsheba.
 
I've always believed that the largest ship in the Imperium is 1,000,000T.
It quite possibly is. I'm going off of memory which is quite possibly faulty.
. . .It does sound like a ridiculously large ship, even if three quarters of it goes to drives and fuel tanks. OTOH, perhaps the main point is that it's larger than any other yacht. The Imperium's billionaires have had yachts built for them for over a millenium (or call it half a millenium if you think the Civil War somehow "reset" the playing field). If every few years some billionaire orders a yacht that's bigger than anything else built so far, you could get quite a bit of size inflation in that time.
That is, almost certainly, the reason you would have such a large yacht. It would simply be a vanity for the head of some megacorp that their yacht is bigger than anyone else's. The actual need for a ship that size has nothing to do with it.
But several thousand dT of 'payload'? What would the naval architect spend that volume on?

(One idea just occurred to me: A big garden or park. Perhaps even a hunnting preserve.)
Try looking at information about the largest yachts in the world for ideas. It would probably have multiple 'launches' such as practical launches used by the crew for supplies and the like as well as private 'launches' that are similar vanities such as a 200 dton 'safari launch'.

While I suspect that 25,000 (or even 50,000 tons) is probably not enough space for a real hunting preserve there are still plenty of things that you could put on such a yacht that would fill up a lot of your space. While normal spaceships are designed with a high degree of efficiency of space such a yacht would be doing almost the opposite, using as much space as possible simply to help justify why it was built so large. This would include things like not only a dining room but also a kitchen, two things not normally found on a ship. You would probably also have a ballroom, a study, an entertainment room, etc.. Look at large mansions for examples of such rooms you might want to add.

If you are still trying to take up space you can separate off part of the ship as 'office space'. There's no reason such a rich person has to be attending to business in his study. Setting aside part of the ship for his office, the quarters for his secretarial staff (who are different from his personal staff), with their own private dining areas, kitchens, and lounges.

Such a huge ship will also have a lot of staff. You will want enough engineers for 3 shifts. You will need command crew for three shifts as well. While such a ship will almost certainly not have 1 turret per 100 tons it will still have some turrets in order to keep it from becoming too tempting a target. That will require a gunner per turret. There will also almost certainly be a security staff on board. All of this will require a medical staff. And then, of course, there's going to be huge amounts of stewards. You will need stewards to prepare the food for all these people, stewards to keep the hallways and common areas of the offices and crew areas clean, and then of course more than the normal compliment of stewards for your guests and cleaning of the 'living' areas.

With so many servants they will probably have their own eating areas. After all, you don't want them using the dining room. It wouldn't even be that unlikely that there are multiple eating areas for the different 'groups' of servants; 'crew' eating in one area, business personnel eating in another, and 'staff' (meaning stewards and junior officers) in a third. And of course those areas may require their own kitchens (though that isn't mandatory if the main kitchen is placed in a junction of areas). You could look towards period pieces such as Upstair, Downstair or the more recent Downton Abbey for ideas about how the differing groups of 'servants' might be separated.

Perhaps I should go with the largest passenger liners instead?
There's a bit more ease to that because you don't have to worry as much about the 'organic' functions of the ship, but in many ways there probably isn't a huge amount of difference in the two. You are simply replacing 'guest rooms' with 'passenger quarters'. It's a little easier because the rooms can be much more modular and you don't have to worry as much about some of the 'living spaces' such as a study or conservatory, but to make a passenger liner more 'real' you have to go back to giving more thought about space efficiency. After all, a passenger liner is designed to make money and wasted space is lost money. On the other hand a yacht, especially like one you are talking about, is almost by its nature designed to be inefficient with its space (you would probably see some issues of efficiency in the crew, staff, and business personnel just so that more space could be used by the owner and guests, but it would probably be far less than you would see on something such as a scout ship or cargo ship).
 
Yes, that's the three quarters of the ship I allude to above. But even then you're going to have around 6000T available on a 25,000T yacht. That's 84,000 cubic meters or 24,000 square meters of 3.5 meters high deck space. OK, not enough for a hunting preserve, but you could fit a nice bit of park in there.


Hans

Under HG, minimum of 83.28% (60+7.14+6.12+6+1.02+2; Fj+Jd.jc+Pp.pc+Fp+Md.mc+Br) for J6. About 5/6.
 
Under HG, minimum of 83.28% (60+7.14+6.12+6+1.02+2; Fj+Jd.jc+Pp.pc+Fp+Md.mc+Br) for J6. About 5/6.
I would actually imagine that there's a good possibility that the yacht wouldn't be J6. After all, real world yachts don't tend to be the fastest vessels in the sea, even after you have discounted specialty high speed boats. They make good speed, yes, but opulence for them is more important than speed.

I would imagine that such a yacht would be only J3 or J4. Possibly even J2. With a jump of 4 there's pretty much no place you can't reach with the yacht. In the case of a yacht with a shorter jump limit you would probably just use drop tanks.

If you think that the head of a megacorp might on rare occasions have need for a J6 capable vehicle (maybe there's a concern that he might need to he able to quickly return home) you could probably get by with a 200-ton 'launch' mini-yacht that is Jump-6 capable.
 
If you think that the head of a megacorp might on rare occasions have need for a J6 capable vehicle (maybe there's a concern that he might need to he able to quickly return home) you could probably get by with a 200-ton 'launch' mini-yacht that is Jump-6 capable.
WHich needs (60+7+6+6+4+1+10+3.5)% 97.5% of hull....

Crew P,N,E,M.
020 Bridge
014 J6
012 TL15 PP6
002 M1
120 JFuel
012 PFuel
012 2xSR DO crew+1xSR SO pass
007 Mod6
=== =====
199 Total used tonnage


Just enough space for a turret...
200 Td is the minimum practical hull size for J6, but it's not going to be a fun ride.
 
WHich needs (60+7+6+6+4+1+10+3.5)% 97.5% of hull....

Crew P,N,E,M.
020 Bridge
014 J6
012 TL15 PP6
002 M1
120 JFuel
012 PFuel
012 2xSR DO crew+1xSR SO pass
007 Mod6
=== =====
199 Total used tonnage


Just enough space for a turret...
200 Td is the minimum practical hull size for J6, but it's not going to be a fun ride.

Not much of a Yacht either. You either have to be part of the double bunking crew or...ride in the turret for a week?:devil:

Though you could ditch the Navigator as they arent required at 200dtonnes

Navigator: Each starship displacing greater than 200 tons must have a navigator. CT Book 2-p16

Maybe, if the Medic was a cute nurse...;)
 
I would actually imagine that there's a good possibility that the yacht wouldn't be J6. After all, real world yachts don't tend to be the fastest vessels in the sea, even after you have discounted specialty high speed boats. They make good speed, yes, but opulence for them is more important than speed.
You're right. I was thinking that a billionaire would value his time and be willing to pay for the ability to get where he's going as fast as possible. But I was conflating seagoing pleasure yachts with corporate jets. Two different purposes and two different means of achieving them.

I would imagine that such a yacht would be only J3 or J4. Possibly even J2. With a jump of 4 there's pretty much no place you can't reach with the yacht. In the case of a yacht with a shorter jump limit you would probably just use drop tanks.
Drop tanks isn't a mature technology. Relying on them would require an infrastructure that probably isn't in place yet in 1105 (unless the yacht relied on Tukera drop liner drop tanks and those would be very small -- probably impractical). Jump-4 would seem a reasonable compromise between getting around quickly and not spending too much tonnage on tanks and drives. Even if you're on a leasurely pleasure cruise, you want to get to the tourist paradises of your choice reasonably fast. Though I wouldn't rule out jump-3 completely. Jump-2... jump-2 would be for people intending to stay fairly close to home.

If you think that the head of a megacorp might on rare occasions have need for a J6 capable vehicle (maybe there's a concern that he might need to he able to quickly return home) you could probably get by with a 200-ton 'launch' mini-yacht that is Jump-6 capable.
I'd consider a navy courier equivalent as the 'corporate jet'. When Baronet Howard Baxter, The Richest Man on Regina1, wants to get from Regina to Mora, he'd either use a J6 company courier or he'll take an Oberlindes J5 liner2 to Rhylanor and change to a Tukera drop tank liner3 to Mora. But he wouldn't use his yacht.
1 Non-canonical.
2 JTAS Online.
3 Inferred.

But you're right that a billionaire yacht would carry at least one of those as a lifeboat.


Hans
 
Well, it is only for emergencies, and of course you could build a 300 ton or even larger 'launch'.

Even 300 Tons isn't all that good for a J6 ship.

180 JFuel
018 PFuel
021 JDrive 6
018 PP6
003 MD 1
020 Bridge
007 Model 6
020 5 crew SR SO. PNEEM (crosses 35 Td drives)
=== ==========
287 tons used
013 tons payload
Which is enough for a 3 SR more, and a turret. So it's possible to have a 300Td "yacht" for a noble and up to 4 guests, by shifting crew to DO, and including a single steward. Still, not a happy trip.

It's at this point where I'd consider it a viable "Yacht"...
A courier should increase the crew by going DO, add 3 turrets, and drives for 2G, and having one ton of cargo.
 
Even 300 Tons isn't all that good for a J6 ship.

180 JFuel
018 PFuel
021 JDrive 6
018 PP6
003 MD 1
020 Bridge
007 Model 6
020 5 crew SR SO. PNEEM (crosses 35 Td drives)
=== ==========
287 tons used
013 tons payload
Which is enough for a 3 SR more, and a turret. So it's possible to have a 300Td "yacht" for a noble and up to 4 guests, by shifting crew to DO, and including a single steward. Still, not a happy trip.

It's at this point where I'd consider it a viable "Yacht"...
A courier should increase the crew by going DO, add 3 turrets, and drives for 2G, and having one ton of cargo.

I appreciate the use of both HG and CT drives in the same ship. I use them regularly in smaller hulls.

What I wonder about is your need for two engineers in this particular case. Do you figure one for the CT MD and one for the HG PP&JD due to different familiarity of the two types of drives or for combined tonnage reasons?

For combined tonnage I still see the need for only one engineer. Starting with the CT MD of 3dtons and then the HG combined tonnage of 39dtonnes.

As I see it the fractional engineer requirement of the CT drives plus the fractional engineer requirement of the HG drives should equal One.

Ergo:

(1-(3/35)) x 100=91 (rounded down)

as a quick check assume a CT drive total of half of 35dtonnes and half of a HG drive total of 100dtonnes

(1-17.5/35)) x 100=50

Therefore a single engineer could handle 17.5 dtonnes of CT drives as well as 50 dtonnes of HG drives at the same time in the same ship.

Going back to the 300dton design it would seem only one engineer would be required tonnage wise.

This frees up another Stateroom. Pretty critical for the ship in question considering its purpose.

What are your thoughts?
 
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