Leif Ericsson Project Revisited

[Rigel Stardin]

Just trying to track down a decent sci-fi model these days is hard. Unless you go on line and go from there, then it all about the shipping handling charges...

On Topic:
Just a thought, I'm think of removing the wings from the conning tower and placing them in the lower part of the front section for limited atmosphere fight. In one of the CGI by nyrath, he indicates an airlock on the second deck. I'd rather put the airlock in the lower deck of the forward deck and then, block it off with the (Name escapes me at this moment) wings controls, giving a more MIG like appearance? This way there is no easy access to the bridge. Invaders would have to go midships before heading back to the bow.

Question: As we go from 2 to 3 to 4 how would you like them connected: Sprial staircase, staircase, elevators or ladders?

 

[sabredog]

"wings": Sounds doable, but I'll keep mine where they are since IMTU a ship this size can't land - close, but not sit on the ground. But what you suggest would make a very good variant in the class which happens all the time. No cruisers are always carbon copies and little tweaks happen every time a new one comes off the stocks.

Ladders for most access, elevators where larger numbers of people or bigger things need a lift. The cargo areas should have lift platforms to lower outside the ship (from below) for ease of loading the cargo bay, which I imagine being below the hanger deck. Or at least in front of it. That makes it easier to load the missile magazines/bays which are in that direction.

Here are some shots of the instruction sheets that show where the windows and airlocks are located on the kit. Now use what you want, but don't feel that you have to be slavishly accurate since I don't expect the actual model to be exactly like the plans you make which are more accurate for the game usage.

But things like hatches and such can easily be sanded off and rescribed in locations that fit the plans, and/or a better design too, and I'll be doing that.

This whole collaboration I see as running parallel courses: A) trying to build a "real" looking ship out of a really open-ended kit using Traveller and your plans as a guide. And all those old movies.
And B) you creating an accurate set of blueprints of the ship for everyone to use in an actual campaign setting.

Here are the pics:

 

[sabredog]

Topside of complete kit. Decals are awfulf, but won't be used - I'll make my own. But as with all of these pics you can see where the various hatches and windows are.

 

[sabredog]

Belly. It is plain and needs the cargo lift platforms but there you go.

 

[sabredog]

Side views...again, forget the awful decals. It's so you see the important details. And the engines are inside the angular nacelles on the sides of the main hull and forward of the wings.

 

[sabredog]

Nose and tower section. Ignore the phaser thing - not going to be used. But I will be scribing the armored doors on either side of the shiled as I told you before for the PAW bays.

 

[sabredog]

Rest of gooseneck and shoulders of main hull.

 

[sabredog]

Finally, how I plan to rework the interior of the shuttle bay. The kit uses the bigger bird-like shuttle that I will use (but it will have a pinnace in the storage bay as well as some carved ATVs), but for the CT plans figure on enough room to shuffle around the pinnaces and such.

 

[sabredog]

Hope these all help, and thanks again for the work you're doing!

This is a first for me, usually I'm trying to make a copy of a real guy's plane, this is turning out to be more fun. I'll have to put it down on the playing table when it's finished and the players encounter one in their tiny little 200 ton ship.

 

[Rigel Stardin]

Just to let you know, Some of the ideas you have concerning the landing bay, I have had too . But we're not there yet . As far as airlocks go, their should be at least one airlock, per section (even if it is an emergency airlock) for escaping a damaged ship or repairing something on the outside.

My last Build (according to the drawing program) ended up being 16 inch long, god knows what this will be...

Personal note: I always attempt to make a design my own, even if i copy the hull design from a picture or believe I can do better. Havara is one of them since it is based of Traveller design. The Blade is another...

For clarity sake, bow is conning tower to first center section. Center Section will be midships and final the stern, the area where the hanger bay is.

Okay then, I'll lay out the bow with what I have in mind and if you don't like it we'll change it to something like bow section of the Stretta and move from there.

If there are others with opinions, comment and dislikes please post them here. More input means more details and design concepts that can be added. My mind has only so much imagination, with the entire community work with me and Sabredog, we could make something grand...

 

[sabredog]

As far as airlocks go, their should be at least one airlock, per section (even if it is an emergency airlock) for escaping a damaged ship or repairing something on the outside.

Same here, and not all emergency airlocks will be iris valves, the ones I have on the exterior for emergency egress are sealed plates with explosive bolts. The inner lock is a hatch so people can get out without too much effort in case of a power failure.

Naturally all major sections are bulkheaded with Iris valves, but hatches are also used in a lot of areas (inside the bulkheaded, iris contained areas) where they may be left open a lot for ease of travel between areas. Irises are always for areas that should be kept closed for security or safety.

My last Build (according to the drawing program) ended up being 16 inch long, god knows what this will be...

Maybe big enough to impress FFE into giving you a job composing a new ship deckplan book for Traveller?

Personal note: I always attempt to make a design my own, even if i copy the hull design from a picture or believe I can do better.

Wouldn't have it any other way. I've always drawn all the ships in my campaign and am tired of of having them all end up looking more or less the same since I have my own design philosophy. None of the players ever want to do their own even when they build a ship. It gets kinda repetitive after a while.

For clarity sake, bow is conning tower to first center section. Center Section will be midships and final the stern, the area where the hanger bay is.

Okay then, I'll lay out the bow with what I have in mind and if you don't like it we'll change it to something like bow section of the Stretta and move from there.

Sounds good.

 

[Rigel Stardin]

Redsigned bow is about to go up. Like I said, long necks and beam weapons don't mix.

The line drawing in the left hand corner is a more accurate depiction of the decks.

I am also aware the Leif is more a wedge in design than what is depicted. I'm still ruffing out the design in my mind.

Hopefully I can finish the midship's ruff out tonight and get it posted.

The the hot and humid weather we've been having in Pittsburgh Pa. has left me worn out. I'm a welder and work 10 hour days...

 

[Rigel Stardin]

I'm still wrestling with the missile bays.

I've read both "Standard Missile Sizes" and "Missiles/Sand canisters on small ships: Load and Storage" threads and still as confused as ever.

Anyway, I'll start stern later on today...

 

[sabredog]

I added some things about the missile bays in the other thread that might help, maybe not, but don't sweat it too much right now.

I just finished the Hellcat model I was commissioned to do and am starting on my MiG-3 for the contest in Sept tomorrow, but I'm working on some notes and plans for the Ericsson kit this weekend to help with my scratchbuilding it so that will probably stir my imagination for some ideas on the blueprints of the "real" one.

 

[Rigel Stardin]

Alright here's the scoop.

I was designing the scout ship tonight so I could figure out the Dimensions of the bay in the stern section. When I bolt of Imagination struck me in the forehead like a ton of bricks. I was look at the website suggest by the nyrath who had done the CGI work and found a close up drawing of the scout craft. At first, the ship seemed to be one deck but there's when the bolt of lighting struck. What if the nose is one deck and the main body is two. (The flares wing close to the body in the drawing indicated that to me) The idea that hit me what if the Scoutship is actually a modular cutter. The lower deck being the module performing different task while doing planetary surveys.

Then just an hour ago, I asked myself a question: Why would a ship this large be carrrying a large scout ship in the first place? The answer came from the original design concept. If the Leif had been a drawing intend to be used in Star Trek as the Enterprise, then the scout ship would be able to travel some distances in space (like the ST shuttles).

I crunched the numbers and found out the ship was within 20% of 100 tons (91 tons). I've run the numbers through HGS Program and came up with:

Leif Ericson Scout Ship

Cargo: 20.000 Fuel: 41.000 EP: 1.000 Agility: 1

Architects Fee: MCr 480.280 Cost in Quantity: MCr 38,422.400


Detailed Description

HULL
100.000 tons standard, 1,400.000 cubic meters, Close Structure Configuration

CREW
Pilot and copilot

ENGINEERING
Jump-1, 1G Maneuver, Power plant-1, 1.000 EP, Agility 1

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/2 Computer

HARDPOINTS
None

ARMAMENT
2 (2 per) Missile launcher

DEFENCES
None

CRAFT
None

FUEL
41.000 Tons Fuel (1 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
No Fuel Scoops, No Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
20.000 Tons Cargo

USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
Module equipment (5.000 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 30,000.000), 1 module (3.000 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 18,000.000)

COST
MCr 48,508.280 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 480.280), MCr 38,422.400 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
38 Weeks Singly, 30 Weeks in Quantity

The scout ship according my grid system is actually 91 tons as shown, so it fell into the 20% range. I rounded up to get 100 tons, the minimum for a jump capable ship. According to HGS program there is 30 tons of extra room. There is a state room which is not need as well (4 tons of added space). The module would contain accommodations for long range expeditions (modules were designed by me and do not reflect actual game stats and standards). This would also allow the ship to carry a range of modules for different activities performed by an exploration ship. Since the program cannot allow me to edit the details the way I want, if some could actually run the numbers for me, I’d appreciate it.

I'll be posting the design here shortly....

 

[Andrew Boulton]

1 parsec fuel and no scoops/FPP? How does it get back?

 

[Rigel Stardin]

Hey, I was tried plus I'm not sure how HGS works.

According to HGS the default setting is for 28 days of operations. Assuming the programmer intend, the ship could make 2 jumps per month without refueling? HGS uses T20, since I don't know nothing about T20 that why I asked if some could crunch the numbers and see if the design is correct.

 

[Rigel Stardin]

Here are the new stats Adding Mister Boulton suggest of fuel scoops with purification plant.

Tech Level: 12

USP
EX-1411121-000000-00000-0 MCr 36.132 100 Tons
Bat Bear 1 Crew: 1
Bat 1 TL: 12

Cargo: 20.000 Fuel: 41.000 EP: 1.000 Agility: 1
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 0.361 Cost in Quantity: MCr 28.906


Detailed Description

HULL
100.000 tons standard, 1,400.000 cubic meters, Close Structure Configuration

CREW
Pilot

ENGINEERING
Jump-1, 1G Manuever, Power plant-1, 1.000 EP, Agility 1

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/2 Computer

HARDPOINTS
None

ARMAMENT
2 (2 Per) Missile launchers

DEFENCES
None

CRAFT
None

FUEL
41.000 Tons Fuel (1 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance, plus 30.000 tons of additional fuel)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
20.000 Tons Cargo module

USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None

COST
MCr 36.493 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 0.361), MCr 28.906 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
38 Weeks Singly, 30 Weeks in Quantity

COMMENTS

The program states 1 stateroom (-4 ton)is need however, the modules would be equipped with accommodations necessary for long duration missions. I rolled over the stateroom into the missile launcher. The ship also has 30 ton of extra fuel.

I'll update drawing later today and post it...

 

[Whipsnade]

According to HGS the default setting is for 28 days of operations. Assuming the programmer intend, the ship could make 2 jumps per month without refueling? HGS uses T20, since I don't know nothing about T20 that why I asked if some could crunch the numbers and see if the design is correct.

Rigel,

You're confusing Traveller's jump drive and fuel rules with your own nifty hyperspace rules. And the options presented by HGS aren't helping either!

HGS was originally coded to use both of CT's ship building rule sets: LBB:2 and HG2. In both, a starship must carry fuel for one jump at it's highest jump rating and 28 days operation. A jump, again regardless of distance, takes roughly one week, so, with the fuel load mandated, a starship can jump once and then putz around in normal space for roughly another 3 weeks.

While HGS does take into account the LBB:2 rules, it doesn't use all of them. It uses HG2 almost predominately and only reverts to LBB:2 on the matter of crews. So, when you're using the program with Book 2 selected, the program is still using the HG2 building rules for costs, volumes, ratings, etc. and only using LBB:2 for determining the amount of crew needed.

(When T20 was released, the HGS programmer, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance, realized adding T20 as a design option was fairly easy because T20 basically followed HG2. The T20 fuel rules, IIRC, don't change at all.)

Anyway, looking at your scout ship's design...

Forty one (41) tons of fuel is too much for such a limited performance. As little as eleven (11) tons would allow a single one-parsec jump and 28 days endurance while twenty (22) two tons would allow two one-parsec jumps and 28 days endurance. You can drop the size of the fuel load, keep the purification plant and scoops, and still add more staterooms and cargo space.

Actually, the classic 100dTon scout/courier is the ship you're looking for. There's no need to design something special. Naturally the Ericsson's scout should be shaped differently, but the performance it's capable of can quite easily be reached at TL11 leaving you 4 staterooms and a smidgen of cargo space.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Rigel Stardin]

When I design a ship using somelse's drawing, I tend to try to keep it in line with their drawing as much as possible. Even the closeups of the actual model seems indicate that the bulbious front is just a cockpit there is no room in the ship for state rooms. If the module was to be placed anywhere it would be placed under the body in the main section. And that is where the accomidations would be. Otherwise the ship would be a single deck with room for 4 passengers in the cockpit.

Since I know nothing about T20 or HG rules for ship construction I let the information stand hope for someone with the knowledge and skill set to make the corrections. All I can go by is the information provide by the program. Without see these rule sets I haven't a clue on how to change the stats around to fit my design.

What I'm trying to say is thank you Whipnade.

Using the information you provide, I can change the drawing to fit my ideas of the Leif's scoutship...