Rigel,
There's no need to thank me for what was my attempt to thank you for all the drawings you've shared with us.
If this keeps up, we'll spend all our time bowing to each other!
Regards,
Bill
Leif Ericsson Project Revisited
- Thread starter sabredog
- Start date
Rigel,
There's no need to thank me for what was my attempt to thank you for all the drawings you've shared with us.
If this keeps up, we'll spend all our time bowing to each other!
Regards,
Bill
Rigel Stardin
SOC-13
Unlike most of the people in this world, Whispnade. I give credit to those who know more than I do. Where mechanical drawing is my forte, your's is crunching numbers and knowing the game system. So if we bow to each other its Okay, just as long as we don't bump heads 
.
.
Rigel:
Feel free to improvise. The "official" rules I used to design the ship to HG standards resulted in a different compliment of small craft since I was using the MacArthur from Mote In God's Eye as a guideline as well. Since the Ericsson model was the inspiration for the design of the MacArthur per the authors of the book.
So since, as I mentioned before, there is always room for differences within the same class of ship you decide which you want to use for the scout. I personally like the idea of the 100 ton jump capable scout as a way of extending the survey range of the ship.
The actual model model will use the scout that you are designing.
In fact I have a design for a deep exploration ship that not only uses a Type S as the bridge, but has two more for long range scouting while the main craft is left in a system to do a full survey as a stationary research platform and has some non-jump small craft for personally checking out the planets while the scoutships are checking the nearby stars for more.
Feel free to improvise. The "official" rules I used to design the ship to HG standards resulted in a different compliment of small craft since I was using the MacArthur from Mote In God's Eye as a guideline as well. Since the Ericsson model was the inspiration for the design of the MacArthur per the authors of the book.
So since, as I mentioned before, there is always room for differences within the same class of ship you decide which you want to use for the scout. I personally like the idea of the 100 ton jump capable scout as a way of extending the survey range of the ship.
The actual model model will use the scout that you are designing.
In fact I have a design for a deep exploration ship that not only uses a Type S as the bridge, but has two more for long range scouting while the main craft is left in a system to do a full survey as a stationary research platform and has some non-jump small craft for personally checking out the planets while the scoutships are checking the nearby stars for more.
Rigel Stardin
SOC-13
"where is my dang psionic shield helment? CotI and your Zhos spies are everywhere."
One build at a time, sigh.
I too have had an idea floating around in my head since hearing the term "Module Cutter" printed in Traveller. Being a big fan of Space 1999 and UFO, several ideas have floated around inside my head (Awful big space but not quite a Pocket Universe.), one of those being a frieghter simular to your design for your explorer. But alas, I just now put the peices together in my mind. I've also had the idea of repurposing 2300 AD ships as well. so there is alot on my plate right now. Then I see the prefab-highport thread and...
...Very active imagination on my part. So for the moment, I'm working on your project first...
One build at a time, sigh.
I too have had an idea floating around in my head since hearing the term "Module Cutter" printed in Traveller. Being a big fan of Space 1999 and UFO, several ideas have floated around inside my head (Awful big space but not quite a Pocket Universe.), one of those being a frieghter simular to your design for your explorer. But alas, I just now put the peices together in my mind. I've also had the idea of repurposing 2300 AD ships as well. so there is alot on my plate right now. Then I see the prefab-highport thread and...
...Very active imagination on my part. So for the moment, I'm working on your project first...
Rigel & Sabredog,
In the spirit of improvising and number crunching, may I present the Leif-lette!
Ship: Leif One
Class: Leif-lette
Type: Explorer
Architect: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
Tech Level: 13
USP
EX-1421221-030000-20002-0 MCr 46.130 100 Tons
Bat Bear 1 1 1 Crew: 2
Bat 1 1 1 TL: 13
Cargo: 15.000 Fuel: 32.000 EP: 2.000 Agility: 1
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification
Architects Fee: MCr 0.461 Cost in Quantity: MCr 36.904
Detailed Description
HULL
100.000 tons standard, 1,400.000 cubic meters, Close Structure Configuration
CREW
Pilot, Gunner
ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 1G Manuever, Power plant-2, 2.000 EP, Agility 1
AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/2 Computer
HARDPOINTS
1 Hardpoint
ARMAMENT
1 Triple Mixed Turret with: 1 Beam Laser (Factor-2), 1 Missile Rack (Factor-2).
DEFENCES
1 Single Sandcaster Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-3)
CRAFT
None
FUEL
32.000 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance, plus 10.000 tons of additional fuel)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant
MISCELLANEOUS
4.0 Staterooms, 15.000 Tons Cargo
As for my "thinking" behind the design:
The idea was to come up with something that is jump capable, small, cheap, and can carry enough scientists/equipment to help out the mother craft with her jobs.
Regards,
Bill
In the spirit of improvising and number crunching, may I present the Leif-lette!
Ship: Leif One
Class: Leif-lette
Type: Explorer
Architect: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
Tech Level: 13
USP
EX-1421221-030000-20002-0 MCr 46.130 100 Tons
Bat Bear 1 1 1 Crew: 2
Bat 1 1 1 TL: 13
Cargo: 15.000 Fuel: 32.000 EP: 2.000 Agility: 1
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification
Architects Fee: MCr 0.461 Cost in Quantity: MCr 36.904
Detailed Description
HULL
100.000 tons standard, 1,400.000 cubic meters, Close Structure Configuration
CREW
Pilot, Gunner
ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 1G Manuever, Power plant-2, 2.000 EP, Agility 1
AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/2 Computer
HARDPOINTS
1 Hardpoint
ARMAMENT
1 Triple Mixed Turret with: 1 Beam Laser (Factor-2), 1 Missile Rack (Factor-2).
DEFENCES
1 Single Sandcaster Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-3)
CRAFT
None
FUEL
32.000 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance, plus 10.000 tons of additional fuel)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant
MISCELLANEOUS
4.0 Staterooms, 15.000 Tons Cargo
As for my "thinking" behind the design:
- Same tech level as the mother craft, TL13
- Same jump performance as the mother craft, jump2, to give her the same "legs".
- Slower acceleration, one gee, because at even two gees she can't run away.
- Four staterooms for big scouting parties.
- Fifteen tons of room for scientific equipment.
- Ten tons of "boomerang" fuel, so she can make a jump1 after a jump2 without refueling.
- Turret for limited self defense.
- Smallest computer allowed.
The idea was to come up with something that is jump capable, small, cheap, and can carry enough scientists/equipment to help out the mother craft with her jobs.
Regards,
Bill
"where is my dang psionic shield helment? CotI and your Zhos spies are everywhere."
One build at a time, sigh.
I too have had an idea floating around in my head since hearing the term "Module Cutter" printed in Traveller. Being a big fan of Space 1999 and UFO, several ideas have floated around inside my head (Awful big space but not quite a Pocket Universe.), one of those being a frieghter simular to your design for your explorer. But alas, I just now put the peices together in my mind. I've also had the idea of repurposing 2300 AD ships as well. so there is alot on my plate right now. Then I see the prefab-highport thread and...
...Very active imagination on my part. So for the moment, I'm working on your project first...
I have the same problem - too many hobbies, too many projects in each, not enough time, and I get bored so easily.
Modular Cutters, oh yeah, Eagles all the way! As far as MTU is concerned none of the small craft look like little cylindrical, uh, things that move at high speed personal type devices. Mine look like Eagles, lifting bodies, and lethal sleek jobs out of a Gerry Anderson show (Launch Angels!).
Perfection personified! Thank you very much and at least I will immediately appropriate and incorporate it into the design.
But since it is a close configuration there will either need to be a wedge or such version, or...I already have a couple of other small craft that are in the Lief herself to help with landing while this craft does it's jumpship thing.
Sabredog,
Just change the configuration codes as needed. There are no volume penalties, just an uptick in the cost. Let's see...
Second digit in the USP changes from 4 to 1.
Price is now 52.130 MCr each, and 41.704 MCr with the quantity break.
Regards,
Bill
With such a snappy design with hip lines I'm sure the quantity discount will apply since all the kids'll want one.
Tri-D advert: (start hip-hop back beat)
Group of vargr in hip hop clothes pointing first to a jazzy Leif-lette in bright red...."You could roll with this......" then they point to a beater old Type S on cinder blocks...."or you could roll with that!"
Tri-D advert: (start hip-hop back beat)
Group of vargr in hip hop clothes pointing first to a jazzy Leif-lette in bright red...."You could roll with this......" then they point to a beater old Type S on cinder blocks...."or you could roll with that!"
Rigel Stardin
SOC-13
So we're going with Whipnade's model of the Scoutship?
Good I like input.
Now the question is shape / configuration?
Do we have wing(for fuel storage), solid body (everything stored inside) or something completely different in mind (how many decks). Because without the design for the scoutship, we really don't have the landing bay size? Without the landing bay size I won't be able to determine the the stern.
Whipnade: As far as fuel tonage goes, when it is stored in the wings to provide lift, I've alway consider the wing the size of a half deck That is were I came up with 40 tons of fuel.
Good I like input.
Now the question is shape / configuration?
Do we have wing(for fuel storage), solid body (everything stored inside) or something completely different in mind (how many decks). Because without the design for the scoutship, we really don't have the landing bay size? Without the landing bay size I won't be able to determine the the stern.
Whipnade: As far as fuel tonage goes, when it is stored in the wings to provide lift, I've alway consider the wing the size of a half deck That is were I came up with 40 tons of fuel.
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Rigel,
The shape/configuration is whatever you and Sabredog want.
Any changes to the shape/configuration won't effect the design's performance. All that will change will be one number in the USP string and the final cost. The scout can be a wedge, the winged "duck" shown earlier, a sphere, a cylinder, a block, anything except a dispersed structure and she'll still perform the same.
Instead of sizing the fuel load according to the shape/configuration of the scout, let's size the fuel load according the the scout's performance. By design, 32 tons of fuel give the scout a performance of 28 days endurance, 1 jump2, and 1 jump1. There's no need for any more fuel than 32dTons. Besides the 8 dTons of space saved helps with other things in the design.
Regards,
Bill
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Lifting body in general, but the wings fold up for storage. There can be fuel storage in the fuselage, tip tanks (which can look pretty sporty), and the inner third of the wing that isn't folded.
The wings are just an extension of the lifting body shape so that it might look like a cross between the SR-71 and the Space Shuttle. Maybe a little more stretched out version of something like this:
http://www.buran-energia.com/spiral/orbital-plane-desc.php
The wings are just an extension of the lifting body shape so that it might look like a cross between the SR-71 and the Space Shuttle. Maybe a little more stretched out version of something like this:
http://www.buran-energia.com/spiral/orbital-plane-desc.php
Rigel Stardin
SOC-13
I'll get started on the new scout craft tomorrow people. Your input has been very useful. Tonight, I'll post the revision of Sabredog's "Ugly duck" I promised earlier today to Mister Boulton.
Just a reminder here, I draw starships as a hobby and I came up with some rules for doing it that are not assocated with Traveller. I do write as well when I'm not drawing. These ships were intend to give me some level of reality to my stories as well as a pattern of performance those ships could do so I could keep thing straight in my head (...not as big as a pocket universe...).
That's why I need input from this community to get them straight so they can enjoy them with me.
Just a reminder here, I draw starships as a hobby and I came up with some rules for doing it that are not assocated with Traveller. I do write as well when I'm not drawing. These ships were intend to give me some level of reality to my stories as well as a pattern of performance those ships could do so I could keep thing straight in my head (...not as big as a pocket universe...).
That's why I need input from this community to get them straight so they can enjoy them with me.
Rigel Stardin
SOC-13
While designing Whipnade's scout, I began allowing my opinions on exploration ships to creep in. The reason being do you really want a race that is not prepare to accept the idea that they're not alone in the universe to know about an alien race spying on them? Pop culture shows like the X-files and Star Trek are a big influence on our view of first contact. Therefore like most of you, it sits in the back of my mind. Oh they make great adventures and thrilling chase scenes for your game but the truth of the matter is Traveller never really addressed the issue of first contact.
I know that most people build their ships as "Auxiliary warships intend to help the Imperium in time of crisis". At least that the Imperium veiw on vessels such as the Leif Ericson. The issue I am about to raise here deals with First Contact and the actual role of an exploration ship.
Number 1: If presented with a hostile population an exploration ship need to high tail it out of the area. The capture of such a ship would be a technological gold mine for the race that captured it. Also the crew's knowledge base of the ships equipment would be Invaluable for those seeking to reverse engineer the technology.
Number 2: If the exploration ship needs to defend itself it should use weapons that will no leave a trace or can be explained away as something else (asteriod collision, internal explosion, etc...)
It is just my opinion that no vessel in the Interstellar Scout Service should be armed with missiles (peices of the missile might be found in the wreckage). Sandcasters are iffy because I've read that they can be seen as either chaff or reflecive material.
I know the Lief Ericson is a dual purpose ship (I've read most of Niven's work Sabredog), and intended as a partol ship as well. So the changes I wish to make is dropping the turret and for a standard dual pulse laser remote turret. In times of crisis, the cargo bay can be converted to carry missiles, sandcaster or ECM Decoys?
It just a thought.
I know that most people build their ships as "Auxiliary warships intend to help the Imperium in time of crisis". At least that the Imperium veiw on vessels such as the Leif Ericson. The issue I am about to raise here deals with First Contact and the actual role of an exploration ship.
Number 1: If presented with a hostile population an exploration ship need to high tail it out of the area. The capture of such a ship would be a technological gold mine for the race that captured it. Also the crew's knowledge base of the ships equipment would be Invaluable for those seeking to reverse engineer the technology.
Number 2: If the exploration ship needs to defend itself it should use weapons that will no leave a trace or can be explained away as something else (asteriod collision, internal explosion, etc...)
It is just my opinion that no vessel in the Interstellar Scout Service should be armed with missiles (peices of the missile might be found in the wreckage). Sandcasters are iffy because I've read that they can be seen as either chaff or reflecive material.
I know the Lief Ericson is a dual purpose ship (I've read most of Niven's work Sabredog), and intended as a partol ship as well. So the changes I wish to make is dropping the turret and for a standard dual pulse laser remote turret. In times of crisis, the cargo bay can be converted to carry missiles, sandcaster or ECM Decoys?
It just a thought.
Rigel,
Seeing as this is your project, your opinions are the ones that matter.
Without further ado, Lief-lette-II!
She's faster at 3gees to run away from unwanted contacts, carries twin pulse lasers, but carries no missiles or sand lest she leave evidence behind. She's lost a stateroom, making her maximum crew 6, and has lost 5 dTons of mission/cargo space too leaving only 10 dTons. Unchanged is the configuration of "Needle/Wedge", her computer, her jump2 drive, 28 days endurance, and enough fuel to make both one 2-parsec jump and one 1-parsec jump as before.
Ship: Leif-lette-II
Class: Lief-lette
Type: Explorer
Architect: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
Tech Level: 13
USP
EX-1123321-000000-20000-0 MCr 58.130 100 Tons
Bat Bear 1 Crew: 2
Bat 1 TL: 13
Cargo: 10.000 Fuel: 33.000 EP: 3.000 Agility: 1 Pulse Lasers
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification
Architects Fee: MCr 0.581 Cost in Quantity: MCr 46.504
Detailed Description
HULL
100.000 tons standard, 1,400.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration
CREW
Pilot, Gunner
ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 3G Maneuver, Power plant-3, 3.000 EP, Agility 1
AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/2 Computer
HARDPOINTS
1 Hardpoint
ARMAMENT
1 Dual Pulse Laser Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-2)
DEFENCES
None
CRAFT
None
FUEL
33.000 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance, plus 10.000 tons of additional fuel)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant
MISCELLANEOUS
3.0 Staterooms, 10.000 Tons Cargo
USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None
COST
MCr 58.711 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 0.581), MCr 46.504 in Quantity
CONSTRUCTION TIME
38 Weeks Singly, 30 Weeks in Quantity
Please if you've any other changes you want to make, just let me know!
Regards,
Bill
Seeing as this is your project, your opinions are the ones that matter.
Without further ado, Lief-lette-II!
She's faster at 3gees to run away from unwanted contacts, carries twin pulse lasers, but carries no missiles or sand lest she leave evidence behind. She's lost a stateroom, making her maximum crew 6, and has lost 5 dTons of mission/cargo space too leaving only 10 dTons. Unchanged is the configuration of "Needle/Wedge", her computer, her jump2 drive, 28 days endurance, and enough fuel to make both one 2-parsec jump and one 1-parsec jump as before.
Ship: Leif-lette-II
Class: Lief-lette
Type: Explorer
Architect: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
Tech Level: 13
USP
EX-1123321-000000-20000-0 MCr 58.130 100 Tons
Bat Bear 1 Crew: 2
Bat 1 TL: 13
Cargo: 10.000 Fuel: 33.000 EP: 3.000 Agility: 1 Pulse Lasers
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification
Architects Fee: MCr 0.581 Cost in Quantity: MCr 46.504
Detailed Description
HULL
100.000 tons standard, 1,400.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration
CREW
Pilot, Gunner
ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 3G Maneuver, Power plant-3, 3.000 EP, Agility 1
AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/2 Computer
HARDPOINTS
1 Hardpoint
ARMAMENT
1 Dual Pulse Laser Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-2)
DEFENCES
None
CRAFT
None
FUEL
33.000 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance, plus 10.000 tons of additional fuel)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant
MISCELLANEOUS
3.0 Staterooms, 10.000 Tons Cargo
USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None
COST
MCr 58.711 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 0.581), MCr 46.504 in Quantity
CONSTRUCTION TIME
38 Weeks Singly, 30 Weeks in Quantity
Please if you've any other changes you want to make, just let me know!
Regards,
Bill
Remember I don't have the Imperium in my campaign, nor the OTU. I only use the CT rules, Striker, and Mayday to run a homegrown campaign with a different theme/philosophy/future history to it. The Ericson would be an otherwise obsolete ship seconded to either the Scout Service or more likely the Colonial Fleet (which is around TL-11-13). So it would be one of the larger and better armed of the warships in the frontier, but not even close to being something the Terran Imperial Navy would use these days except for range practice.
And my ideas on First Contact and it's why's wherefores, and hows are different form the "official" Traveller universe's. With that caveat in mind....
First, the scout (of whatever kind, and yeah one of these could be used as such) would come out of jump a lot farther out on the edges of the system than normally in order to gather ELINT so as to determine if anyone living there was at least capable of in-system travel.
Small auxiliary craft onboard would be sent out as pickets, or tripwires to give enough warning to the main ship should such be needed - like if the inhabitants were wild-eyed xenophobes who launch nukes at the first sign of UFO's in the system.
So even if the small craft are sacrificed, the main ship will have plenty of time to escape. And since you've read The Mote In God's Eye, then you know the PAW bays on the Ericson would be dedicated to the same task with regards to the small craft as the Lenin's weapons were with the MacArthur when making contact with the Moties. It sucks being a junior officer I guess but there it is.
I doubt much in the way of debris from the weapon will be left if that weapon is a high yield nuclear weapon. Or I suppose a bonded-superdense kinetic-kill missile could be used if you wanted it to look like a rock hit the target. I do see your point on one hand, but on the other hand missiles are also the best long-range weapon short of a spinal gun in the game. On the third hand the Launch program can be removed form the ship's computer to prevent an accidental fire should that be seen as prudent, and the rest of the weaponry will obliterate anything the size of the Ericsson or smaller anyway.
So is that dropping the turret or turrets? I think 6 triple beam turrets would be more effective on average than dual pulse lasers, and they are better at anti-missile fire so they provide a CIWS layer for the ship. But the cargo bay, or at least the magazine, would be well stocked with scanning drones and decoys (called "Growlers" IMTU....5 ton ECM, chaff firing drones) if the ship was sent on a scouting or survey mission. And they'd be shot out of the missile bays, so at least one missile bay would be needed.
But the others are modular so you can mix it up. Come up with one for a scouting/survey mission and one that is the "standard" design for the class? Like was done for the AHL's maybe? Showing how multi-purpose the design can be, like a modular cutter the size of a destroyer.
Rigel Stardin
SOC-13
After much thought and longer delay, I have finished the scoutship. Based on the SR-71 design, I came up with this little gem. The one thing you will note is the small turret in the center of the upper decks. This is to reflect the smaller weapons.
The main deck (top of the page) Avionics and computer (Access to the cockpit is center just behind the nav array), The living quaters comes next (using an idea that the US Navy uses on subs, the bunks are stack three high, which provides room for a small living area, galley, table and a single bathroom with shower), Life support (port side), airlock (Starboard), cargo bay next with overhead doors. Drive control room followed by Jump drive. In the wings are the fuel scoops (other gases vent throught the top and bottom through the red circle things why skimming hydrogen) and two thruster drives.
I'll be posting it in about a minute enjoy....
The main deck (top of the page) Avionics and computer (Access to the cockpit is center just behind the nav array), The living quaters comes next (using an idea that the US Navy uses on subs, the bunks are stack three high, which provides room for a small living area, galley, table and a single bathroom with shower), Life support (port side), airlock (Starboard), cargo bay next with overhead doors. Drive control room followed by Jump drive. In the wings are the fuel scoops (other gases vent throught the top and bottom through the red circle things why skimming hydrogen) and two thruster drives.
I'll be posting it in about a minute enjoy....
Rigel Stardin
SOC-13
Thanks to the guys over in "Ship Weapon Thoughts/Discussion" and Espiecally PFVA63 I've rather quickly designed a 120 ton Missile bay which I'll post shortly.
Tanks guys....
Tanks guys....
Rigel Stardin
SOC-13
I'm begining work on the stern:
The question I have deals with the manuvering drives. Are the under the cowling which I have assumed as the hydrogen scoops or are they mounted in the rear?
The question I have deals with the manuvering drives. Are the under the cowling which I have assumed as the hydrogen scoops or are they mounted in the rear?
