My CR .02:
I agree with the poster up-thread that supplies, particularly hold-space for extended cruises and operations, was simply overlooked by the various designers at the time. The logical place treat the subject would have been in Trillion Credit Squadron, perhaps in the campaign rules. I don't recall anything in those rules requiring hold volume being set aside, though I believe there's discussion of field repairs (or is that in High Guard? Maybe both.) I'm pretty sure jump towing is discussed in the TCS campaign rules.
Hmm, can't recall if TCS covers ammo useage or not. I know somewhere in CT there's mention of battery-rounds of magazine capacity. Have to check - I'm thinking it's either in TCS or the special Missles supplement that came in JTAS. Well, Book 2 does talk about missle turret loads, but that's clearly aimed at the smaller ships and I *think* latter rules expanded considerably on the Book 2 rules.
Sidebar: Wouldn't it be a neat TCS variant to specify cruise duration & magazine capacity along with performance specs and pilot supply?
We have some references to extended operations in wartime in the OTU. Azhanti High Lighting or Lightning Class Cruisers describes the last mission of the Bard Endeavor, leading a squadron of smaller ships in commerce raiding operations in the latter portion of the Rim War. LCC also mentions that the class had copius hold space to support the ship's intended mission of deep penetration raiding. Can't remember if the cargo holds on the AHLs have doors which open to space; I'll look at my deckplans tonight.
LCC also covers refuelling operations for the AHLs. Though partially streamlined and capable of skimming on it's own, the AHL usually relies on it's 4 fuel shuttles to skim or perform ocean/ice refuelling. This process takes several days at minimum.
Fifth Frontier War, the boardgame, only deals with logistics in regards to refueling. Refueling is either immediate or takes a full turn (one week). Starports can refuel a number of squadrons per week-long turn based on the starport type. Naval and scout bases can refuel an unlimited number of squadrons in a week. Squadrons can conduct field refueling; the speed depends on their level of streamlining (full, partial or un-) and the resources in the system (essentially gas giants or oceans/ice on the mainworld). All of the combatants have at least one tanker squadron which can refuel some number of squadrons immediately, though that exhausts it's supply. (The tankers are all partially streamlined.) Otherwise squadrons roam the map without regard for supply issues. Squadrons can be repaired (5FW utilizes a counter-flipping step loss mechanic for space combat) only at friendly bases.
The Spinward Marches Campaign talks about the extended planetary sieges of Jewell and Efate in the Fifth Frontier War, and the Zhodani made a major push for Rhylanor late in that conflict which is also covered.
According to SMC the Zhodani besieged Jewell and Efate for over a year. Obviously they didn't carry supplies for many months of combat operations. Jewell is close to a number of Zhodani bases, but Efate was reached via Louzy, a system with a massive number of low-TL SDBs. SMC makes specific mention that Louzy's SDBs, which went scattered and went into hit-and-run mode very early in the war, severely hampered Zhodani logistics efforts sustaining operations at Efate.
Sidebar: You can't really recreate this situation in the 5FW boardgame. A competent Zhodani player can knock out both Jewell and Efate in a few turns each. I ran a PBEM game last year in which Jewell, Efate and Vilis - the three hi-pop "fortress" worlds all fell on Turn 6 or 7.
The implications I draw from all this, at least for the OTU, are:
- Many canonical ship designs are "broken" because they don't allocate sufficient hold space for operations. In part that's probably because the rules for consumables hadn't been codified yet.
- Some classes of ships are expected to undertake extended operations away from friendly support facilities. When some thought was put into it, space was set aside in the design for stores.
- Sieges, at least, require a path back to a friendly source of supply and sufficient transport capability to sustain operations.
- A certain level of combat capability can be restored in the field, but extensive repairs require a starport yard.
- Rapid field refuelling is possible if you've got a suitable source, but those big unstreamlined (and some partially streamlined) ships are going to require tanker support if you intend to travel far quickly.
- We've got some information on missile (and by implication, sandcaster) magazine requirements, but scant information on field resupply.
- Ditto for life support consumables.
Hope that helps!
- John
I agree with the poster up-thread that supplies, particularly hold-space for extended cruises and operations, was simply overlooked by the various designers at the time. The logical place treat the subject would have been in Trillion Credit Squadron, perhaps in the campaign rules. I don't recall anything in those rules requiring hold volume being set aside, though I believe there's discussion of field repairs (or is that in High Guard? Maybe both.) I'm pretty sure jump towing is discussed in the TCS campaign rules.
Hmm, can't recall if TCS covers ammo useage or not. I know somewhere in CT there's mention of battery-rounds of magazine capacity. Have to check - I'm thinking it's either in TCS or the special Missles supplement that came in JTAS. Well, Book 2 does talk about missle turret loads, but that's clearly aimed at the smaller ships and I *think* latter rules expanded considerably on the Book 2 rules.
Sidebar: Wouldn't it be a neat TCS variant to specify cruise duration & magazine capacity along with performance specs and pilot supply?
We have some references to extended operations in wartime in the OTU. Azhanti High Lighting or Lightning Class Cruisers describes the last mission of the Bard Endeavor, leading a squadron of smaller ships in commerce raiding operations in the latter portion of the Rim War. LCC also mentions that the class had copius hold space to support the ship's intended mission of deep penetration raiding. Can't remember if the cargo holds on the AHLs have doors which open to space; I'll look at my deckplans tonight.
LCC also covers refuelling operations for the AHLs. Though partially streamlined and capable of skimming on it's own, the AHL usually relies on it's 4 fuel shuttles to skim or perform ocean/ice refuelling. This process takes several days at minimum.
Fifth Frontier War, the boardgame, only deals with logistics in regards to refueling. Refueling is either immediate or takes a full turn (one week). Starports can refuel a number of squadrons per week-long turn based on the starport type. Naval and scout bases can refuel an unlimited number of squadrons in a week. Squadrons can conduct field refueling; the speed depends on their level of streamlining (full, partial or un-) and the resources in the system (essentially gas giants or oceans/ice on the mainworld). All of the combatants have at least one tanker squadron which can refuel some number of squadrons immediately, though that exhausts it's supply. (The tankers are all partially streamlined.) Otherwise squadrons roam the map without regard for supply issues. Squadrons can be repaired (5FW utilizes a counter-flipping step loss mechanic for space combat) only at friendly bases.
The Spinward Marches Campaign talks about the extended planetary sieges of Jewell and Efate in the Fifth Frontier War, and the Zhodani made a major push for Rhylanor late in that conflict which is also covered.
According to SMC the Zhodani besieged Jewell and Efate for over a year. Obviously they didn't carry supplies for many months of combat operations. Jewell is close to a number of Zhodani bases, but Efate was reached via Louzy, a system with a massive number of low-TL SDBs. SMC makes specific mention that Louzy's SDBs, which went scattered and went into hit-and-run mode very early in the war, severely hampered Zhodani logistics efforts sustaining operations at Efate.
Sidebar: You can't really recreate this situation in the 5FW boardgame. A competent Zhodani player can knock out both Jewell and Efate in a few turns each. I ran a PBEM game last year in which Jewell, Efate and Vilis - the three hi-pop "fortress" worlds all fell on Turn 6 or 7.
The implications I draw from all this, at least for the OTU, are:
- Many canonical ship designs are "broken" because they don't allocate sufficient hold space for operations. In part that's probably because the rules for consumables hadn't been codified yet.
- Some classes of ships are expected to undertake extended operations away from friendly support facilities. When some thought was put into it, space was set aside in the design for stores.
- Sieges, at least, require a path back to a friendly source of supply and sufficient transport capability to sustain operations.
- A certain level of combat capability can be restored in the field, but extensive repairs require a starport yard.
- Rapid field refuelling is possible if you've got a suitable source, but those big unstreamlined (and some partially streamlined) ships are going to require tanker support if you intend to travel far quickly.
- We've got some information on missile (and by implication, sandcaster) magazine requirements, but scant information on field resupply.
- Ditto for life support consumables.
Hope that helps!
- John
